Cap_D

Agree. No reason to fly into MCO and drive to a cruise port, when FLL and MIA are closer their respective cruise ports, plus West Palm is another option. Hard to envision a family with kids or a couple paying for airfare and transport from MCO and to go on a non-Edge class ship. And, families with kids flying would migrate to the CocoCay itineraries or just skip Celebrity. Plus younger couples are not going to be impressed with an older ship, no modern quick service concepts, cutbacks, etc.

My experience has been lunch showed for the scheduled sea days when viewing the reserved sailing dates prior to today. The reserved dates were a 3 (at Sea) - 5 (ports) - 2(at Sea) configuration. I can't view unreserved cruises for 2024, but for earlier dates I see lunch disappears on Beyond starting with the August 28 sailing, while Apex continues to show lunch through the end of the year. Again, I can't pull up 2024 dates except my own reservation. No qualms about the OVC for lunch on port days on past trips, but have enjoyed lunch at Luminae more than dinner, and had thought it was part of the package. Fully aware this could be a loading issue with how the app worke, but this could just as easily be be a stealth cutback. And, generally suggestive that the company is a mess, and too lazy to care.

Hopefully just a glitch/loading issue, but considering everything else being reported on it would not surprise me to see dining room lunch service cut shipwide for Retreat and non-Retreat. Lunch at Cosmopolitan on sea days is also missing. One more thing... In case anyone else finds this interesting, the following Edge_Culinary_One_Pager_TRADE_FLYER.pdfEdge_Culinary_One_Pager_TRADE_FLYER.pdfdocument provides travel agents with the food breakdown on Edge Class, including times or day, and square footage. https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/EDGE/Edge_Culinary_One_Pager_TRADE_FLYER.pdf

In light of all the stealth cutbacks, I was reviewing the app under a cruise reserved for March 22, 2024 on Beyond. Lunch in Luminae is now missing for sea days on the itinerary. Is anyone else seeing lunch missing? Could this be why the base cruise fare went down a few weeks ago?

Agreed. Having to proactively monitor all possible changes, worry about possible cancelations, etc. is not at all instilling confidence, wonderfulness or anything positive other than distrust. And, this is an old criticism, but charging for gelato is about as tacky as charging for an extra lobster. They really are looking for ways to make it impossible to garner praise or make a cruise fun.

Umm, who is responsible for the overall guest satisfaction with the Retreat experience? My own experience is the Retreat Manager was pivotal to making sure everything went smoothly or was troubleshooted depending on perspective.

Meanwhile the reviews of MSC Yacht Club reflect butler service that seems to be geared to going above and beyond, and very much needed due to the configuration and number of passengers outside of Yacht Club. Pretty evident Retreat is not the product it was, far too rigid, inflexible for the amount paid. How soon before an enterprising solo traveler or anyone not in Retreat begin to provide a door dash type service? Considering the number of crew, how one that is paying over a thousand a day for a big room and table can't get a grilled steak (or anything else) brought to their room makes no sense. There are plenty of crew to be able to pick up and drop of to a few rooms, on occasion.

In March 2023 Apex already needed new cushions on the Magic Carpet and Sunset Bar. That doesn't require taking the ship out of service, but even with the pandemic down time it was in in need of TLC. The number of cancelations and shafting of paying customers begs for some form of regulation. Do we have any info on how often this happens on other cruise lines without any master schedule?

The cookies are likely a commercial mix from Gordon Food Service.

Both can be true, as CS may get a dedicated butler, but there will be less butlers overall.

Thank you for contributing. Presuming the RCCL executive chef approved recipies /food service supplier mixes are intentionally selecting gelatinized day glo desserts, what do you think the rationale is other than Instagram? We've noticed some of the breads and croissants are decent (bistro on Edge or the once a cruise Eden), but never sure if that is intentional or a nice mistake considering intentional cutbacks.

Part of the gimmick with using aluminum has been a claim made about the ability to compact it to save space while storing the trash on the ship. If true, they'll need more space now for plastic bottles as those don't compact the same way (although I am sure they will try). And, until now, have not had nearly the same volume of plastic bottles as compared to aluminum from beer, soft drinks, and water.

@RichYak Seems as good a place as any to wish you a great cruise.

Re the need for a point of contact, and spreadsheet comment above - good point, and a very valid concern. We found having to repeat requests to more than one person very annoying on our last cruise in a Retreat Celebrity Suite. Also, didn't enjoy having frequently answer the ringing phone or check voicemail to then have to repeat the request again. Spent more time on a corded phone then we had in years.

To state the obvious, its stuff like this that connects Retreat passengers to Celebrity, same with the minibar setups, and other, as they say at Disney, acts of magic. Now some of the requests/actions wouldn't be needed if Celebrity just incorporated the practices into the baseline procedures (like the minibar for premium package Retreat guests)..but that's a set of needs for another threads. In the meantime, a good butler can sell you on the next cruise.

@bnurick We did the same, after reading you did this, and it helped except breakfast (and until the breakfast hang tag was not picked up). Glad you mentioned it a few months ago. Tip for anyone in Retreat (reading this in the future): Type out and print your requests (as suggested above) and turn it in, get multiple breakfast hang tags and fill those out on day 1, and then place daily on door, take a picture with time stamp of placing hang tag on door with order. Make all of this clear to anyone and everyone that asks "can they get you anything" - including the new "team."

Limp shrimp cocktail (I refer to it as "mushy") can also be found in Luminae on Apex and Edge. So, its by design not an error. Seems like an easy thing to get right considering almost all caterers/dining rooms and Costco do so.

I'm not pleased with the change, the communications strategy, bait and switch, etc. It's a big portion of the Retreat customers that just got crapped on. (And, guess what, the upper rooms are just more square footage and same asthetic, with what can almost always be covered with OBC or relatively modest cash charges (specialty dining, marked up booze, etc.), yet the same Luminae and bread sticks in the lounge.) Just adding that, while possibly unpopular, if Celebrity allowed ordering of food to ones location via app, then that could help. A lot of what the Butlers seemed to do, regardless of the suite, was act as food runners (afternoon room service cheese plate). I don't need to know the name of the runner, or have to go back to the room to use the corded phone next to the bed or in the toilet closet to order it. Same for laundry, etc. That being said, I know the first cruise we took on Celebrity (and ever) was vastly improved by the Butler (Gordon) who introduced us to cruising, along with the Retreat. Take away the total experience, and some personal points of contact, and it may not have been. And, the second cruise a year later, more hiccups compared to the year prior, and that had nothing to do with room size. It was the entire operation not positioned to deliver and exceed expectations without being challenged. It ultimately did, and there were standouts that made up for some service failures. Then, now this, and other changes by a leader who just doesn't seem to care if anyone has a great time, and then who cuts out one of the tools she has to help deliver that great time, and even course correct during a trip. (That's what great hotels and resorts do). An inclusive vacation, and a Retreat experience, where the customer advances the cost, labor is relatively inexpensive (factually, it just is given their model), should avoid anything but weather, big technical issues, and force majeure events.

It's about 80% of the Retreat rooms, known collectively as suites, on Beyond, which has 130 Sky Suites and 20 Aqua Sky Suites (added charge for spa pass). Probably about the same percentage of Retreat customers. For room counts, see https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL_04_06_SP_Beyond_One-Pager.pdf

Who's minding the store for Retreat guests? The real question is anyone on the ship and at corporate thinking ahead and care if guests have a great time?! Maybe falsely it seems like the Butlers were in a spot to care during the journey, and help work the system behind the scenes, as needed (at a Ritz or Disney, that's every cast member). It also seemed like the Brand and the experience were optimized under LLP (I know this may be controversial, but it seems like she built a culture of caring and identity that the new exec is dismantling, recklessly considering the lack of a communications strategy). After assessing our first time sailing ever, in a Sky Suite on Edge, post pandemic (cost was not the decider for the room type, we simply don't need extra rooms, a kitchen table for non existent take out, etc. and Retreat was booked 6 weeks out when we booked.), it was the Butler and Retreat that helped make the difference between good to be vacationing again, and this Celebrity thing was the right choice. Having called audibles during land vacations to achieve the optimal experience, the idea of tying ourselves to a cruise, let alone months or years in advance is not in our DNA. So, it's gotta hit on all of our key criteria, and the hospitality provider is going to need as many tools in their favor to do that especially on a ship. The second time, a year later because we had the FCC Deposit and OBC and figured why not, in a Celebrity Suite, was good, but the Butler was neutral at best, maybe a detractor. A team could have helped, but behind the scenes work would have helped more. He couldn't make up for issues either beyond his control or that one would think he'd catch. Missed breakfast hang tags (so delayed start for all day), saltines in abundance (there must be decent crackers somewhere on the ship, there is at every grocery store in the Western world), silverware for 1 when we needed sets for each guest, toast but no butter, the ice cream stand closed for hours on opening day (food and beverage director had zero explanation), food quality dips, Eden Cafe quality only at Eden Cafe for about an hour a sailing, and the list goes on. But, on the other hand, Retreat hosts and their leadership, Luminae team, Eden, the weather, and others made up for the misses in other ways. Retreat guests regardless of room type are the ones that self identified to wanting a top notch experience and were willing to pay on top of basic room and food costs. If the onboard product fails in that regard it's a missed opportunity either to keep them as Celebrity customers or move them upmarket within RC.

For those interested in the number of suites, here's the info on Beyond. https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL_04_06_SP_Beyond_One-Pager.pdf

We'd be done if no access to Retreat. Royal Caribbeans lack of a suite experience or dedicated restaurant except for certain rooms within the suite category is one of several reasons why their offerings don't appeal to us. The Coastal Kitchen seems pedestrian, limited ships, etc. We were in a CS on Apex on the last cruise. The room divider between the main room and the bedroom lets a high degree of light in, so it was no better than a Sky Suite in our view. Someone would be watching TV or have the drapes open and wake up anyone in the bedroom. Anything more than 20k and up, and we'd spend it elsewhere. The hospitality and quality isn't that good. Saltines are 2 for $6 at the grocery store, etc.

FWIW - The personal connection one makes with a crew member helps increase satisfaction and repeat business. The elimination of a butler, even if it's just as a point of contact, makes it now less likely for customers to form a personal connection. A constant theme throughout comments about cruising is the connection people form with crew, for some it's towards the top reasons why they feel positive about their cruise even if there are issues.

For what the cruise line pays for labor, the savings here is not a lot. Also, no Butler is better than the mia Butler, one that generates complaints, or one that acts as if saltines are like gold and causes head scratchers. A lack of in room coffee machines and bottleneck at the slow, not up to the volume, machine in the lounge or line at the Bacios is a miss; the Butler didn't make up for that considering the guest transaction cost involved (such as phone tag for a cup of coffee). 10k plus should get one a coffee machine.

If they cut the Butlers, they need to up their game when it comes to points of contact and soft stuff like snacks, etc. for Retreat guests. It was sometimes time intensive on the guest to use the Butler for some needs that could be replaced if we could just email or use the App to order higher quality food items (not saltines), make requests that are "magic" opportunities like a birthday cake, Retreat deck food (not a butler function now as best I can tell), etc. Said differently, the Retreat experience needs some enhancement, and there are ways to do that without the Butler. If the Retreat experience is going to be all inclusive and comfortable, it can't be that guests have to do contortions and request things that should just be happening and included.