BWIVince

If that's true, then does A&K get all that money back they paid for the CS history? And considering that's one of the biggest chunks of change to be paid back to passengers owed money in the assignment pool, I would think people with claims would be more excited about that data being used for something moving forward, since it's one of the few sources of cash back to them coming up. Vince

As Rob mentioned they were run in-house... If Genting feels stiffed, well... Finding a vendor to operate just two small ships at this point is problematic -- most of the vendors have revenue threshold guarantees that Crystal would be unlikely to hit with their passenger load, demographic, and hours the casinos are operated monthly. This was the main reason Crystal couldn't get another vendor when Caesar's exited the cruise vendor segment -- and the dynamics were a lot more friendly to the situation back then. Vince

Not so amazing... It's funny how this keeps getting overlooked. They deliberately BOUGHT the CS Milestone data, which indicates they might have an interest in using it. Maybe, maybe not, but they paid a lot for it. They not only did NOT buy the detailed financial transaction data, but they aren't even legally allowed to it under current data security standards. Apples and oil filters. Vince

How is that supposed to work? 🙂 The Canadian Dollar isn't at par -- why should Crystal sell to Canadians at more of a loss than the rest of us? 🙂 I'm afraid there's logistically going to need to be some kind of fence around that service... There are just too many "Suites" now to be served by that galley, and it's not feasible for the room service galley to do the menus of the main two specialty venues (even if the others did their own). THAT SAID, I wonder if that text wasn't just pasted together too quickly and not accurate updated? It feels like that number needs to be more than the few rooms with Penthouse in their name now, but fewer than the almost the whole ship, that are now "suites"? Vince

+1 to all of that, including the Connie Club... I just hope they update the ventilation system for it -- on Symphony it had been getting kind of "leaky" the past 5 or so years if service, pushing the smoke out in the hallway and up the aft stairs a little sometimes before dissipating. Vince

To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised at the initial pricing of some of the new lower-end suites... With all the new inventory, the price point may lower still, but even if it doesn't, I'm kind of pleased by the new pricing in this way. Gone is that HUGE gap between staterooms and penthouses. Vince

My only BAD items so far are things are things that I UNIVERSALLY can't stand as trends across the entire travel industry right now... Like few-to-no drawers in the regular rooms. I'm 0-2 for hotel rooms this month with drawers. The elimination of the desk drawers in the rendering for the regular rooms, if true, is on-point for where the industry is going, but is a real 👎 for me. The renderings show a shallow desk drawer like the previous desk, but assuming the two door handles in the symphony rendering are the safe and the fridge, that leaves a loss of 8 drawers and the corner cabinet. 😒 I'll post some random good points for me because I'm sure everyone will cover the "real" ones quickly... 😄 (All points below for Symphony) GOOD - They seem to have flipped Symphony's Tastes so the bar and dining space combine on one side, leaving the Trident seating on the other (where Silk's lunch/dinner window seating was). I appreciated the attempt to create a lounge and bar space that wasn't overwhelmed with table waiter service and galleys, but the awkward zig of the tables for Trident being on the opposite side was disjointed. GOOD - BUH BYE to the original bathroom tiles in the standard rooms. Finally. Finally. Seriously. Finally. GOOD - The renderings seem to keep the a similar color-coding of the previous bedside lamps. That would be kind of cool if actually true, for absolutely no functional reason. Again, I'm trying to post fun random points... 🙂 Vince

Welcome home, Roy! Hope you're finally able to rest up.

Ahh, yeah, I'd have them re-quote it and reference the website, requesting a breakdown. Vince

Sorry I haven't posted more this week... I've had my hands full onsite. I've dug into Symphony a bit this week, and it's pretty much what I expected in the time frame I expected it (with some specific delights and specific disappointments). Serenity's timeline I do have some questions about, but it might make more sense when I get a chance to see what exactly they are doing. This is spot on... I think a culinary arts center is probably feasible -- it wouldn't require a much heavier lift, transport-wise, than the Bistros do, which have a service pantry and no galley access. I think it's less likely that we'll see a restaurant galley that isn't on the existing galley complex service stack though, the way Waterside, the deck 6 (Symphony)/7 (Serentity) venues, Serenity's Stardust, Marketplace and Trident/Tastes are. Not impossible, but definitely challenging, costly, awkward, and not preferable to not have direct access for supplies and prepped food like that. Vince

I'm not sure I understand? All of the cruises I've seen show valid fares on the menu page for each cruise. Vince

I agree completely, but we simply don't know where this is going to land yet. As many will recall I'm not a fan of designated single cabins because they are almost always in less than ideal locations, as we see here with Crystal, but most lines make those one component of their offerings for singles, AND I was in the minority on that opinion on the board. No matter what Crystal says their single supplement ladder is at this point, give it 6 months until the schema has been market tested. Vince

Totally agree…. To that point, that’s why I’m not losing my mind over whatever gets released this week. It’s not the entire future of Crystal, it just represents one moment in time. For example, if the pricing doesn’t meet the market, it will change. If the restaurants don’t meet demand, it will change, etc.. So even if the new entry-level prices are initially out of my price range, some of these market forces have almost certain odds to catch up to them on the very bottom end of their product. Not this week, or this month, but I’m not looking to sail immediately anyway. I’ll add my neighborhood-adjacent rant about people that measure age vs. refit age. Age often locks in general arrangement proportions because in both hotels and ships, it gets VERY costly to make guest rooms fractionally larger/smaller (without combining or splitting whole units), along with most public space allocations. You can affordably change a lot of things after a hotel or ship are built, but it’s crazy expensive to reallocate guest room dimensions and convert rooms into public space or vice versa. In the 70’s and early 80’s there was a turn to bigger guest rooms and bathrooms overall, but since then, general arrangement has been more about density and less about guest amenities and comfort, no matter how the BS is spun. I take the good with the bad on this though, and in Symphony’s case that GA works against us on standard stateroom minimum size and main dining room size, but then swings back in my favor on things like wraparound promenade, public space allocation proportion, and number of public lounges and enrichment areas…. And in the end I value those more than the cabin size. A million times over I’ll take a well renovated and maintained older hotel or ship that allocates space in a way that benefits me than some new ship that doesn’t, just because it’s new. Serenity is in better shape with nicer decor than many ships half her age, including many competitors — a trend I expect to only become clearer as Crystals ships are refit again this year. Vince

…But for a lot of us, it IS about the money. A lot of us (especially singles) can’t afford the fares of other luxury lines because they DON’T have those “small” non-suite staterooms that Crystal did. That doesn’t mean I disagree with your point that Crystal needs to address the perception that the standard staterooms are uncompetitive — their smallest rooms are mostly smaller than any other luxury line’s smallest rooms. From a business plan perspective, of course they want to close that gap and charge the higher per diems that the other lines get for their entry level rooms, but for a lot of us the near-impossibility to combine some of the rooms preserves the potential that some of us will be able to sail with the food, atmosphere and service we need, without the wasted space we don’t. Not all of us want to (or even can) waste all that extra money on space we have no use for. Vince

Especially true with Symphony…. Nothing is impossible if you want to throw enough money at it, but it would be especially challenging to add balconies to the Deck 7 staterooms since they don’t align with the promenade deck and have the ventilation system over the windows in most cases (or under in others). Vince

Isn't that supposed to be a fun of an online forum? 🙂 Airline forums are (generally) worse -- everyone is an armchair CEO. Vince

No, that’s actually EXACTLY the scenario I was referring to and the point I was trying to make. While the fine details vary, in all of these cases these employees were terminated when their properties or companies closed or suspended operations, and in all of these cases a different management team (at the minimum), or in most cases new ownership, are now in place or in the process of forming. That’s the whole point of the varying reactions. Using my old company as one specific example, the company has new leadership and the owner no longer has a management stake in the company, but the ownership remained the same. About 85% of the pre-pandemic employees have returned, up some of us are hesitant because the wages and benefits are subpar and the management would be a question mark for some of us. But the vast majority have already returned for other intangible reasons, including getting to work with their friends again, and a great work environment despite the pay. Some jumped at that chance immediately and others waited to see how the new leadership would pan out, but the point is the number of people returning per quarter has picked up after everyone was either able to reach a point where they were able to make a change or got a chance to see how it was working for others. I get the same story regularly from my contacts at other companies, suppliers and competitors. No one has any way to measure interest and intent, but analogous comparisons have served me really well my whole life, and I’m living in a whole ecosystems of nearly identical examples right now that I’ve spend some time analyzing. I just note what I’ve been watching has taken years, not what these companies started with…. So give it time. Vince

I just wanted to add my two cents about generalizations on returning staff, since I have firsthand experience with this personally, professionally, and through all of my current and former contacts, coworkers and friends in the travel industry. I feel comfortable betting on "most", but it's the timeline that becomes the qualifier. Especially in the hotel industry, but also with intermediaries and cruise lines that traditionally have low turnover and long tenure, I'm seeing a surprising number of the employees returning to their pre-pandemic employers, regardless of where they may have been working in the interim. It wasn't a light switch flip though, which is part of what has surprised me. The backstory is that a lot of the people fall into (but not limited to) four big buckets: a) People who are interested in returning immediately and are timed with existing contracts or obligations to be able to start ASAP. b) People who are interested in returning immediately but need to wait 6-12 months in order to be able to start for either personal or professional obligations. c) People who are skeptical to returning but who are open to the idea once they see if the work environment or offers really play out the way they're supposed to. (These are the "maybe" or "give it a couple of years" people.). This includes people waiting to see which colleagues or leaders return before committing. d) People who were completely disinterested in returning, until they saw how things came together or who all else came back. Where (c) is more like FOMO because FOMO is keeping the door open, (d) are people that closed the door and then realize they're already missing out when they see everything in motion after a year or two, and THEN start their journey. We've seen this steadily build month-over-month in the past year (roughly), so I'd expect in Crystal's case, that these former employees and crew would return in 2024-2026. So long story short, I wouldn't take the number of returning employees on day 1 as a final number. Based on what we're seeing across the travel industry, this is going to be a process playing out at Crystal over several years. Vince

I personally agree with you about role changes in order to be contemporary and competitive, at least in concept, but I'm not sure I can identify any of any importance when I try to get down to specifics. For the fun of discussion, if you don't mind elaborating, which roles don't you think should return? (...And maybe which ones do you think should be added, or replace them?). You're totally welcome to decline if you don't feel comfortable with any specifics, I just thought it might be an interesting topic. Vince

That's how it gets ya. 😞 I hope you start turning the corner soon, and that OLoPP hopefully doesn't quite go through what you have. Vince

I really hope you turn the corner here soon and start feeling better Ken! I totally get the loss of vacation perspective, but I kind of had the opposite view when I was sick last week... I was wishing I was confined to a cruise ship cabin instead of my house, where I could have free meals dropped off, fresh towels and amenities dropped, and I could take long, steamy showers without having to worry about the water bill (and if it was Crystal, better water pressure than my 2.5gpm fixtures here). Plus the slower internet on the ship would lower the expectations everyone had for me to work while I was sick. I totally get that YMMV here though. 🙂 Vince

$500 is a LOT to some of us. 🙂 I clearly need to make more friends in this group! 😄 I actually don't understand this logic, and it's come up again and again. People are treating the $500 like it's the risky proposition, and the full booking like it's safer somehow. It's QUITE the opposite. The $500 deposit is not only fully refundable, but as the program is outlined right now there's no case in which it wouldn't be covered by a chargeback. (I still recommend verifying that with your bank, but under network rules that would be the case.). So there is no practical way to lose money here. A full booking, OTOH, whether you make from your $500 deposit or wait to book later, may be subject to any cancellation penalties or processing fees, and times out for dispute eligibility after 540 (or similar, depending on network) days from when each amount is applied. I'm not rushing out to book anything, on any line, because I don't know what I want to do next, but if I was, I'd feel a LOT more confident about the $500 part than I would about placing a full booking on _ANY_ cruise line. In fairness to A&K, I probably trust them with my money a lot more than some of the larger conglomerates too, while we're on that subject. Just food for thought... Vince

Apples and golf pants. 1. They can ignore “status” (Crystal didn’t really have status tiers, so there isn’t much to ignore), but they paid a lot of money for the CS history. I can’t really see why they would ignore it. There are plenty of other things they needed that money for. 2. They didn’t, and legally can’t, buy Crystal’s financial transaction details. This is easy to ignore. 3. Terry already listed all of the reasons that you can’t surmise an accurate financial loss from the court releases and he’s 100% correct. That data is incomplete, unverified and obsolete at this point. There will be snapshots in time when part of it is sort of correct, but it’s not kept current or anywhere near complete, ever. It’s simply not intended to be a register of what everyone lost — it’s a partial list of debts and reimbursement requests at fixed points in history. Trying to misuse it as such would be a DISASTER. Why do we have to agree to disagree on a statement that’s FACTUALLY INCORRECT? Full information is NOT available. Only a small part of the information is available in a bankruptcy — much of the chargeback and insurance data will be unreported. Having entry level phone agents make outbound calls for new bookings from a qualified leads list is a standard thing in the travel industry. Having entry level phone agents make outbound calls to negotiate open-ended deals with people who may feel they’ve suffered a financial loss is perhaps the biggest disaster of a business plan over ever heard in my entire professional career. The $500 seems to have worked fine, but if it didn’t, up it to $750 or $1000 and go from there. Listening to customers is one thing, and Crystal will soon have plenty of sales management to do that, but wrangling is not what outbound phone agents are for. Vince

What the new (or old, if they go that direction) loyalty program will look like is just one of the myriad of programs and details the new company has to outline before they can start full-scale marketing. They don’t need to have all the details worked out, and they can continue to add to it, but they do need the basics at this point. IMHO, I can’t imagine them ignoring Crystal’s previous guests in the program after spending so much money for that info, but what the new program looks like will be anyone’s guess. It’s a balancing act between being Crystal’s first real chance to make sweeping changes to the program and fix some of the legacy issues with it with less blowback than the previous management teams would have received, and the need for the program to feel familiar and rewarding to previous guests in order to make the transition attractive and comfortable for the legacy clientele. We shall see…. (Probably in the next couple of weeks if reports remain on target.) Vince

Trust me, Crystal isn’t withholding information because they don’t understand the value of communication — things are only quiet because there is nothing final yet to communicate. When they have something to share, you’re going to hear so much about it you’re going to long for the days before you were bombarded with emails and/or mailers. I can see the complaint threads now. Enjoy the quiet while it while it lasts. As for timing, keep in mind that New Crystal has to do about 65% of the work that NYK and Old Crystal took 4+ years to do. Starting with built ships isn’t even as much of an advantage as it might sound, when you’re trying to plan dry docks on both that customarily have taken about 2 years to design, fabricate for and execute. Vince