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pmd98052

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  1. They wouldn't have a choice right if they default on loans?
  2. Its pretty obvious that a) You haven't read the CDC report b) You haven't watched the NHK documentary.. Nor did you answer my question. You've said before you are over 70. I hate to break it to you but you won't be crusing for a long time. To quote from the CDC report again. You ain't cruising any time soon: "(1). Cruise ships bring diverse populations into proximity for many days, facilitating transmission of respiratory illness (2). SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease (COVID-19) was first identified in Wuhan, China, in December 2019 and has since spread worldwide to at least 187 countries and territories. Widespread COVID-19 transmission on cruise ships has been reported as well (3). Passengers on certain cruise ship voyages might be aged ≥65 years, which places them at greater risk for severe consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection (4). During February–March 2020, COVID-19 outbreaks associated with three cruise ship voyages have caused more than 800 laboratory-confirmed cases among passengers and crew, including 10 deaths. Transmission occurred across multiple voyages of several ships. This report describes public health responses to COVID-19 outbreaks on these ships. COVID-19 on cruise ships poses a risk for rapid spread of disease, causing outbreaks in a vulnerable population, and aggressive efforts are required to contain spread. All persons should defer all cruise travel worldwide during the COVID-19 pandemic. Cruise ships are often settings for outbreaks of infectious diseases because of their closed environment, contact between travelers from many countries, and crew transfers between ships. On the Diamond Princess, transmission largely occurred among passengers before quarantine was implemented, whereas crew infections peaked after quarantine (6). On the Grand Princess, crew members were likely infected on voyage A and then transmitted SARS-CoV-2 to passengers on voyage B. The results of testing of passengers and crew on board the Diamond Princess demonstrated a high proportion (46.5%) of asymptomatic infections at the time of testing. Factors that facilitate spread on cruise ships might include mingling of travelers from multiple geographic regions and the closed nature of a cruise ship environment. This is particularly concerning for older passengers, who are at increased risk for serious complications of COVID-19 (4). The Grand Princess was an example of perpetuation of transmission from crew members across multiple consecutive voyages and the potential introduction of the virus to passengers and crew on other ships. Public health responses to cruise ship outbreaks require extensive resources. "
  3. Didn't you say you were over 70? What if you caught it, didn't have symptoms, but passed it on to an elderly relative? Risk you're willing to take for a cruise? Read above for the CDC too. Report is clear the virus spread like wild fire long before the Diamond Princess quarantine kicked in. Spread through the food galleys and food staff to - not just passengers.
  4. And yet many people in here who are willing to take the chance with the virus (because after all your chance of dying is only 0.5% to 5.7% depending how you count CFR etc) seem to fine with cruising. Personally I would also risk it. But what I wouldn't risk is cruising, catching it, and without knowing bringing the virus back thousands of miles home and infecting/killing someone who was less lucky in the "death lottery" than I was. That is why cruising can't happen for quite some time.
  5. Because people are morons and will abuse the system.
  6. What do you think a 7 or 14 or 21 or 28 or 41 night cruise is? Its 7+ days of quarantine on a ship with the added advantage of port time where you might pick up more infections from new places. Cruising if you're in a high risk group (over 70, over weight, asthma, high blood pressure, CPAP, diabetes etc) isn't going to be a risk cruise lines are going to take. Perhaps if you pass an antibody test prior to boarding, wear masks, and can prove you have immunity; but again not enough is known about the disease to even know if that helps. NCL/CCL etc are not going to risk getting sued by people in high risk groups who can't prove they've already had this and scientists prove that once you've had this you cannot get it again.
  7. I’m sorry are you saying 100,000 people haven’t died since late March? The situation of how rapidly COVID19 spread on Diamond Princess is entirely relevant to when and how cruising can start again. Like you said a text book case of how the virus spreads rapidly on a cruise ship. It’s not good news for reopening cruising prior to a vaccine.
  8. Again. Seriously when was the last flu season you saw with 100,000 dead in 2 months and morgues overflowing? At the end of March USA had less than 500 deaths. We were told it was 15 cases and would soon be zero in Feb! Now 100,000. Name me a flu season with that that isn’t 1918. if you think cruises are going to start soon and allow over 70s and other high risk groups on when they do start you are in for a surprise. You might get one or two ships going out as guinea pigs but have fun with face masks and in room dining. What about that CDC report on the Diamond Princess right?
  9. 100,000 dead in 2 months in the USA alone and you're saying it has the same CFR as flu despite it also being orders of magnitude more contagious? Seriously when was the last flu season you saw with 100,000 dead in 2 months and morgues overflowing? Regular flu R naught value is 1.3... COVID19 is 5.7 and you want to get on a cruise ship. It ain't happening for quite some time. Especially if you are over 70. To much of a risk for the cruise line. CFR in the USA from known cases is currently 5.8%. Yes of course will be lower given some people have had it and don't know.
  10. Not just USA -These kid vairants of COVID19 were first detected in London.
  11. The common cold doesn't kill and the flu's death rate is 0.1 to 0.4% - Massive difference. Both also have much lower R naught values than COIVD-19. They do not spread as easily. On deaths per capita please compare Sweden to comparable population density countries such as their Scandanvian neighbors. Swedens death rate is 5 times hight. I repeat: UK 260+ people per square mile. Sweden 24 per people square mile. You have to compare other scandanvian countries with similar pop densities that did lock down. Look at that and the data is simply devastating for Sweden. Look at Sweden verus Norway or Finland (both have around 20-40 people per square mile). To compare death rates of Sweden to say the UK with 260 people per square mile is crazy. The UK has a massively high death rate because a) Lock down was very late b) No tracing c) No quarantine at airports d) High population density (look at London transport for an example!). Compare apples to apples. Belgium which is high on your list has 380 people per square mile! I see you continue to ignore CDC comments on cruise ship risks, no sail orders, and how 4,000 people arriving in one place from all over the world, being in close quarters and then dispearsing back all over the world is a smart thing to do right now. I'm also old enough to remember the day 3,000 people died on American soil and we (and the world) mourned. America has been losing 3,000 people per day to COVID-19 and we're mad we can't go cruising and eat at a buffet! Lets get a grip on our priorities.
  12. The common cold doesn't kill and the flu's death rate is 0.1 to 0.4% - Massive difference. Both also have much lower R naught values than COIVD-19. They do not spread as easily. On deaths per capita please compare Sweden to comparable population density countries such as their Scandanvian neighbors. Swedens death rate is 5 times hight. I repeat: UK 260+ people per square mile. Sweden 24 per people square mile. You have to compare other scandanvian countries with similar pop densities that did lock down. Look at that and the data is simply devastating for Sweden. Look at Sweden verus Norway or Finland (both have around 20-40 people per square mile). To compare death rates of Sweden to say the UK with 260 people per square mile is crazy. The UK has a massively high death rate because a) Lock down was very late b) No tracing c) No quarantine at airports d) High population density (look at London transport for an example!). Compare apples to apples. Belgium which is high on your list has 380 people per square mile! I see you continue to ignore CDC comments on cruise ship risks, no sail orders, and how 4,000 people arriving in one place from all over the world, being in close quarters and then dispearsing back all over the world is a smart thing to do right now.
  13. Your entire post is laughable. You lost everyone with your "COVID-19 is like the flu" statement. That is factually incorrect. It is a blatant lie with utter disregard for the truth. COVID-19 has a R naught of 5.7 while flu is 1.4 or less. It is massively more contagious than flu and has 4 times the case fatality rate. With Flu you get bad symptoms within 1-4 days so don't typically spread it much further. With COVID you can be walking around for 14+ days spreading it (no symptoms) at over 5 times that rate of flu before dropping dead around day 25 or later. Or fully recovering - meanwhile the people you infected are now spreading it like crazy as well.... Flu also has a vaccine. Its interesting isn't it that NYC has had many many flu seasons. Every year in fact. So has Italy. None of those have seen their ICU units and hopsitals stretched to the max with flu patients in modern history. I've not seen refridgerared trucks outside NYC hospitals for flu season. But keep spreading the lie. Look we all love cruises here. Its why we are on the forum but you only have to read the CDC report of the Diamond Princess to know that an outbreak on a cruise ship is going to be catatrohpic just like outbreaks in nursing homes are. 4,000 people arrive from all over the country and indeed the world to get on a cruise ship the next day. Then confined spaces, an elderly population, re-circulated air, faecal air contamination (COVID-19 spreads via toilet backflushes) in vacuum toilet systems, crowded crew quarters with large single kitchens spreading the virus. Its just not a good recipie. Then you have 4,000 people going back to their communities to spread it further. In fact its one of the worst possible scenarios you could ever devise. It is why the CDC currently has a full no-sail order in place. They don't do that just for shits and giggles. I can't wait to cruise again. I am glad your personal risk profile deems it acceptable to do even today. That is beyond selfish given how COVID-19 spreads. If you were taking the 1-10% chance of dying (age dependent etc) I'd be cool with it. That is your decision. The problem is your decision goes far far beyond you. Now as for Sweden - yes it now has over 5 times the death rate of is Scandanvian neighbours and as with any global depression its economoy is also wrecked. So 5 times more deaths (So far) and no economic benefit. Comparing Sweden to UK (etc) per capital death rates is nuts - you have to look at populaiton density. UK 260+ people per square mile. Sweden 24. You have to compare other scandanvian countries with similar pop densities that did lock down. Look at that and the data is simply devastating for Sweden.
  14. Just a turn of phrase. These posters are treating it like nothing. It is a party, a low risk game to them. They want the right to take individual risk while thinking nothing of the consequences of their actions. 4,000 people come back from a cruise and then travel back to communities far and wide. I can’t think of a better virus transmission plan. also have to laugh at the USA (and UK and others) allowing people from Brazil into the country given its rates right now. Also seems relevant to being in a confined space on a ship with 4,000 others: https://www.axios.com/cdc-arkansas-church-coronavirus-outbreak-fb265e5a-5db7-4ace-9bc4-098e0d09e7fd.html Thoughts and prayers for them.
  15. Also worth noting that in Florida where people seem to have high individual risk profiles... today they had 1,200 new cases the highest number since April 24th. If I recall Florida opened early. It’s gonna be a big whoopsie there. Meanwhile large city in Alabama is out of ICU beds. This party is just getting started. on the positive side perhaps there is a treatment soon! https://calgaryherald.com/cannabis/cannabis-shows-promise-blocking-coronavirus-infection-alberta-researcher could bring a new type of cruise!
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