The other Idaho 21

Great, thanks for the help!

My DW and I are not new to cruising, but we have only ever booked our cruises directly through C&A representatives after placing a courtesy hold online.

I often see Cruise Critic members talking about upcoming cruises before they are even posted on Royal Caribbean's website. They seem to know what day they will be going on sale and the best time/date to make their reservation in order to ensure they get their favorite cabin.

Can anyone tell me the best way to get this information? It's been a few years since we've cruised, and we're interested in booking a cruise for Summer 2017. Not really sure where we want to go yet.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

In case 1, the table (shooter) is now "coming out", and odds are by default off (not working) on that roll. So, you won't add the odds bet until a point is established for the table. If unsure of what to do, the dealer will help you. Watch how the dealers work - they will pay the front line, take the don't pass bets, pay any place/buy bets (yes they are ALLOWED on the point!) pay the field if applicable, and finally, move your come bet up to its spot on the layout.

 

Something to look for: if you make a bet in the come box, and one of your already working come numbers with odds hits, the presumption is that you want to keep the odds live, and make another come bet. The dealer will give you the winnings and manage the new bet/odds. This is called "off and on". Sweet words to hear!

 

Second part: Whatever floats your boat (pun intentional). I personally don't see why people use complex strategies. There's no reason to believe that when a table is hot it will turn cold on the next roll (so much for "regression"). Nor is there a reason to believe a cold table will turn hot on the next roll. So much for "progression." As for hedging strategies, if it makes you feel better, go ahead, but a sucker bet is still a sucker bet no matter what the reason for your placing it. I toke the dealers direct.

 

In the long run, no system ever invented changes the house advantage one bit. Just my two cents.

The initial questions were just to clarify come/don't come bets. Thanks for the clarification.

The other strategies I've read about (especailly the 1st scenario) was meant to bet only (or mostly) with winnings after the first hit. Since the 7-out is inevitible, the idea is to only have winnings at risk whenever that finally comes. I like that idea.

Thanks for the help.

Jason

I think I know the answer to this but wanted to ask any way. What happens when you put your bet in the Come/Don't Come area and:

1) the point that's been established is made?

2) 7 comes up?

3) 2, 3, 11, or 12?

Also....

I've been reading John Patrick’s "Advanced Craps" in an attempt to work on my money management skills and gain a few simple and successful betting strategies. Up till now I've been a novice player with the attitude that I'm just playing for fun. Normally I stick to pass line with odds, a couple place bets... and occasionally a few crazy bets (mostly for the dealers).

From what I've learned lately my plan is to try out three main strategies on our upcoming Riviera cruise and see how they compare.

First, is a regression system of placing the 6 & 8, bypassing the come-out roll accompanied with a up and out variation. Example: Place 6 & 8 for 12 each, after the first hit go to 6$ each 6 & 8. After the second hit go to 22 inside, after 2 hits on any of those numbers, take down the 5 & 9, after one more hit on either the 6 or 8, take them down.

The second one I think I'll try (on the nights that they offer more than single odds) would be pass line max odds, two come bets max odds. Patrick doesn't like this strategy because of not having control over the numbers that come up, but like you guys were talking about, getting true odds is the best bet in the casino from the standpoint of lowering the house edge as much as possible.

The third one that I want to give a try I learned from Scoblette in one of his books (recommended by Yo-11) is a Doey/Don't hedge system that seems a little more complicated and I don't know if I trust cruise ship dealers to follow it. I may do better waiting for my next Vegas trip to try this one out, but it looks like a sound strategy. He also recommends a 5 count system that limits losses due to point & immediate 7-out's.

All that to say... What are your opinion's of the strategys I'm looking at? Are there pros or cons that I haven’t looked at?

Thanks,

Jason

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO The Other Idaho 21: I have that book too. I have been playing using those systems myself. I have found the five count method saving me money by not betting on shooters that seven out quickly. However, most shooters have mediocre rolls between 6 and nine numbers. Mr. Scoblete mentions this. However, you will be in on many shooters with a shot at big rolls.

 

I have also used the Doey Don't system. It is the only way to beat the mathimatical edge the house has. I don't use it that much. When you play that way you will only attract house scorn. You are not playing for a rating, just to walk away with house money. Like other systems you may not win. However, you will lose less than most other players when the dice aren't rolling well.

That was my thinking too. I’m really not too concerned about getting rated, however it might be nice from time to time to have some perks. I understand this is not the way to do that, but like Yo-11 and a few other players, I'm more concerned with making money than friends.

The only other question I had is about pushing the house. Has anyone ever had any luck pushing the house on your odds bets? I can understand that it would sometimes be beneficial, to get a correct payoff, but in the long run will it cause more problems than not?

I took some advice offered on this board and purchased “Beat the Craps out of the Casinos” by Frank Scoblete. I finally finished it yesterday and it brought up a few questions I wanted to ask you guys.

First of all, on the right side, one of the strategies he suggests to avoid an early 7-out, is something called the 5-count method. Is anyone familiar with this strategy, and if so, have you found it to be successful?

Secondly, the main strategy that he suggests is a basic Doey-Don’t system, with variations depending on bankroll and style of play (which was a completely new concept for me). Since I understand that the best bets (mathematically) are odds bets on your pass/don’t pass & come/don’t come, it makes sense to have the only money you have at risk working only in the areas that would pay true odds. What are your thoughts on this type of system, and have you found it to be successful (with variations depending on house rules of course)?

Thanks

A come (or don't come) bet is the exact same as the pass/don't pass line, it is just setting another point.

 

ie. new shooter. You bet 5 on the pass, a 9 hits you can take odds (say 2x so $10). On the next roll you place a come bet. a 2,3 or 12, you lose the come bet, 7 or 11 you win 1 to 1 on the come bet. any other number the come gets moved to it and say it is the 5, you can put $10 free odds on it. No if a 5 comes before the 7 you win on your 5 come bet ($20 win) and if the 9 hits before the 7 you win $20 on that.

 

If the 9 hits you win $20 on it and you 5 bet is still up there. Now you still need to hit a 5 before a 7 to win on your five bet.

This all makes sense, but to take it one step further… Am I correct in my understanding that I may decide at any time to have my odds working or not (on both pass/don’t pass and any come/don’t come bet) but the original bet stays in place till the number is hit or a 7 is rolled?

Thanks everyone, these responses have helped a lot. It truly shows me how much I have to learn about the game to become anything more than just a casual player. This cruise will have a steep learning curve for sure.

To make sure I understand… If I make a come bet, no matter what number comes up I get the true odds without having to pay the vig, so long as I also take the odds?

I consider myself an amateur player that has a good “basic” understanding of the game. In the past I’ve stuck to the pass line with odds and a few place bets, but I’ve never really won or lost too much.

I’ll be sailing in a few weeks on Liberty of the Seas (the same sailing as Yo Eleven), and plan to watch his play (even though I have always been a strict right-side player). I’m also planning to add a few Come bets with odds now that I understand what they do.

I’ve read all of the past posts and I’ve learned a lot, but since everyone is putting in their own two cents it can get a little confusing. I’m looking for some suggestions of good books that explain the game a little more in-depth, along with the different types of bets, and some betting strategies. Although I’ve found this board helpful, I’ve always found that I learn best by watching something; I just want to make sure that I understand what all I’m looking at when I’m watching the play.

Cheers, and thanks for the help.

Can someone please tell me the difference between buying points and placing them?

Thanks, I'm still learning...