Hand sanitiser aversion

On our latest voyage on the QV which we disembarked from last Friday, once again, I was amazed at just how many people failed to utilise the hand sanitisers provided, in fact people not only ignore the presence of the hand units but appear to go out of their way to avoid using them. On three occasions, it could have been a lot more, I felt so strongly about the failure to use the units that I commented to the people avoiding them. In each case I was met by abuse from the males and a non-plussed, "what has it got to do with me attitude from the females". These would probably be the first to run to a solicitor or lawyer to complain about the ship's hygiene if they became ill.

I am sick of saying to people, as cruisers our danger is not from the ship but from the other passengers.

David

Both myself and Mrs Toad always wash our hands immediately prior to entering the dining room etc and so do not use them as there is no need. Also, compared to washing your hands, they are pretty rubbish by comparison.

Obviously if you can't wash your hands then then are better than nothing, but you can in this case, so they are effectively useless.

Of course, an observer such as yourself would not know if someone has just washed their hands immediately prior to entering wherever.

Both myself and Mrs Toad always wash our hands immediately prior to entering the dining room etc and so do not use them as there is no need. Also, compared to washing your hands, they are pretty rubbish by comparison.

 

Obviously if you can't wash your hands then then are better than nothing, but you can in this case, so they are effectively useless.

 

Of course, an observer such as yourself would not know if someone has just washed their hands immediately prior to entering wherever.

While true that washing hands may be better than using the sanitizer, people may still touch surfaces on the way to the dining room such as door handles, stair banisters, elevator buttons, etc. All of these surfaces can harbor bacteria and germs.

David and Toad

I do not use hand sanitizers as they dry my skin but very happy to use the hand washing facilities next to the sanitizers. Where have your hands been? only you know and are you comfortable with skin, urine and faecal debris on your hands as you eat. Sad to say eventually someone will become very ill with a bug and blame everyone but themselves. Whilst we are on this subject I was pleased to see the chefs happy to cook steak "medium well done" for me in Kings Court as I do not like undercooked food. Please oh please will people wash hands and reduce the chance of cross infection and we may all have superb holidays on Cunard's 3 Queens. Happy healthy sailing.

PhotoAndy.

Yes, I have often observed this carelessness of some passengers on ships and not only there, also in hospitals. I would like to add that these sanitizers don't have the effect of a proper medical treatment, still they are better than nothing.

What can Cunard do improve the situation? Have staff control it at the entrance or where ever the facilities are installed? Maybe by putting notices on top of th sanitizers.

Comprehensive tests not that long ago revealed a lot of hand sanitisers are ineffective, but when they are germ killing they are also potentially harmful. Using it strips away out natural defences and is making us vulnerable to mutating bacteria. The same problem can be seen with more antibiotic resistant bacteria plaguing health systems.

I always wash my hands thoroughly with soap and warm water. I therefore see little need to use hand sanitiser every time I walk down a public corridor. Take Kings Court for example: no fewer than 4 sanitiser stations/personnel the length of that area. Once on QM2 I was told to sanitise 3 times in under 90 seconds. It was overkill.

Comprehensive tests not that long ago revealed a lot of hand sanitisers are ineffective, but when they are germ killing they are also potentially harmful. Using it strips away out natural defences and is making us vulnerable to mutating bacteria. The same problem can be seen with more antibiotic resistant bacteria plaguing health systems.

 

I always wash my hands thoroughly with soap and warm water. I therefore see little need to use hand sanitiser every time I walk down a public corridor. Take Kings Court for example: no fewer than 4 sanitiser stations/personnel the length of that area. Once on QM2 I was told to sanitise 3 times in under 90 seconds. It was overkill.

+1 (or more)

Comprehensive tests not that long ago revealed a lot of hand sanitisers are ineffective, but when they are germ killing they are also potentially harmful. Using it strips away out natural defences and is making us vulnerable to mutating bacteria. The same problem can be seen with more antibiotic resistant bacteria plaguing health systems.

 

I always wash my hands thoroughly with soap and warm water. I therefore see little need to use hand sanitiser every time I walk down a public corridor. Take Kings Court for example: no fewer than 4 sanitiser stations/personnel the length of that area. Once on QM2 I was told to sanitise 3 times in under 90 seconds. It was overkill.

And they lull people into a false sense of security thereby not washing their hands - thoroughly. Rinsing hands under the tap for a few seconds is not thorough washing.

A few years back on a Holland America cruise, I was in a bathroom near the entrance to the buffet, and there was a man in one of the stalls who was very obviously going #2 (smells and sounds). He came out of the stall as I was washing my hands, bypassed the sinks, and just walked out in front of me.

Guess where he went? Yes, straight to the buffet line! It was revolting to know that this man had fecal matter in his hands and was about to handle the same utensils that everyone (including myself) would use as well. I just had to walk away and eat somewhere else. I feel as if I should’ve said something directly to him, but I feared making a scene. In retrospect I should’ve.

Ironically, I got violently ill later that week with gastrointestinal problems. Missed a day and a half of my cruise locked up in my stateroom due to this. Ever since that experience, I have made some changes to my habits onboard. I wash my hands even more frequently than I used to, I always carry hand sanitizer or use the ones provided (to SUPPLEMENT my hand washing), and I try to avoid going to the buffet as much as I can. Even if I have just washed my hands,

I still take advantage of the hand sanitizers whenever I can.

To everyone feeling the need to justify their decision to bypass the hand sanitizers because you have already throughly washed your hands: you are not the problem. It’s people like Mr. #2 on my Holland America cruise (and who are completely oblivious) the reason why cruise lines are trying whatever they can to minimize the effects of people like him.

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Comprehensive tests not that long ago revealed a lot of hand sanitisers are ineffective, but when they are germ killing they are also potentially harmful.

Spot on.

It's yet another example of received wisdom.

But the problem is with stuff like this is that companies/governments/whatever can't or won't back down and admit they are wrong. So if Cunard did remove them (since they are of little or no value), a lot of ill-informed people would be up in arms about it.

A few years back on a Holland America cruise, I was in a bathroom near the entrance to the buffet, and there was a man in one of the stalls who was very obviously going #2 (smells and sounds). He came out of the stall as I was washing my hands, bypassed the sinks, and just walked out in front of me.

 

Guess where he went? Yes, straight to the buffet line! It was revolting to know that this man had fecal matter in his hands and was about to handle the same utensils that everyone (including myself) would use as well. I just had to walk away and eat somewhere else. I feel as if I should’ve said something directly to him, but I feared making a scene. In retrospect I should’ve.

 

Ironically, I got violently ill later that week with gastrointestinal problems. Missed a day and a half of my cruise locked up in my stateroom due to this. Ever since that experience, I have made some changes to my habits onboard. I wash my hands more frequently than I used to, I always carry hand sanitizer or use the ones provided, and I try to avoid going to the buffet as much as I can.

 

For those posters saying that they won’t use hand sanitizer because they are ineffective, in my humble opinion something is still better than nothing. For those saying that sanitizers dry their hands too much, there are sanitizers available with hand lotion. Once again, I understand that they are not 100% effective in eliminating germs, but even if all they do is minimize by a smaller percentage, it’s still better than nothing.

 

Dry hands is much more desirable than being violently ill for days in your stateroom and missing part of your cruise because of fellow cruiser’s irresponsibility and very poor hygienic habits.

 

 

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But in your example, you using a hand sanitizer has not relevance in regard to person leaving the toilet and not washing their hands. They are the ones that should be using it, not you.

And they lull people into a false sense of security thereby not washing their hands - thoroughly. Rinsing hands under the tap for a few seconds is not thorough washing.

This is true. Nothing beats thorough hand washing in warm soapy water.

Spot on.

 

It's yet another example of received wisdom.

 

But the problem is with stuff like this is that companies/governments/whatever can't or won't back down and admit they are wrong. So if Cunard did remove them (since they are of little or no value), a lot of ill-informed people would be up in arms about it.

It's the illusion of hygene in the same way as TSA present the illusion of security (recently read they miss 95% of illegal goods, like weapons, in tests).

But in your example, you using a hand sanitizer has not relevance in regard to person leaving the toilet and not washing their hands. They are the ones that should be using it, not you.

I edited my post to clarify the point that I was tying to make. I agree with you 100%. I’m not the problem. It’s people like the guy that I encountered. But it’s because of people like him why I don’t blame the cruise lines for aggressively trying everything they can.

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It's the illusion of hygene in the same way as TSA present the illusion of security (recently read they miss 95% of illegal goods, like weapons, in tests).

Taking liquids of more the 200ml onto a plan is another example of the same thing. The idea behind 200ml is that several people working together could then meet on the plane and create a liquid bomb. But this has been shown to be impossible because at the very least you would need a laboratory to do it in, and even then it's highly unlikely. But yet again, Governments around the world will not back down.

And in Australia, do you have the nonsense about not using a mobile on the forecourt of a petrol station because of the risk of explosion?

But the fact a mobile phone has never caused an explosion (and in fact can't because they don't have enough power to cause a sufficiently large spark) makes no difference. The petrol companies came out with it and will now not back down, even though it's total garbage.

I am allergic to the stuff. I have multiple contact allergens. I take my own safe soap slivered in a tic tac box and wash with that instead of the stuff provided in the bathrooms. If I do eat in the buffet I put on a brand new clean pair of vinyl gloves and liberally apply the provided gel. This works for me.

I edited my post to clarify the point that I was tying to make. I agree with you 100%. I’m not the problem. It’s people like the guy that I encountered. But it’s because of people like him why I don’t blame the cruise lines for aggressively trying everything they can.

I must have quoted you/replied before you edited it. I too have seen people leave toilets without washing their hands. And I too, like yourself, think that I should say something.

I must have quoted you/replied before you edited it. I too have seen people leave toilets without washing their hands. And I too, like yourself, think that I should say something.

We all àgree sanitisers are next to useless only good old soap and water works.

Buffets are the most likely place for cross contamination avoid them.

When leaving a public toilet on a ship use a paper towel to hold door handle, you never know the state of the hands before you.

To everyone feeling the need to justify their decision to bypass the hand sanitizers because you have already throughly washed your hands: you are not the problem. It’s people like Mr. #2 on my Holland America cruise (and who are completely oblivious) the reason why cruise lines are trying whatever they can to minimize the effects of people like him.

Anyone not using the sanitisers for whatever reason are the problem because it increases the belief they are optional.

The sensible approach is not to eat in the buffet where tongs, plates, and food has been handled by other passengers. If you are daft enough to eat there, don't use your fingers to eat anything.

We all àgree sanitisers are next to useless only good old soap and water works.

 

Buffets are the most likely place for cross contamination avoid them.

 

When leaving a public toilet on a ship use a paper towel to hold door handle, you never know the state of the hands before you.

We do NOT all agree that sanitizers are next to useless, nor that only soap and water works.

There is no substitute for hand washing, but the reality is that unless the sink is in the buffet or the entrance to the dining room, you are almost guaranteed to come in contact with some surface during your transit to the area (the door to your cabin, the railing in the passage way or staircase, the elevator button, your cruise card, the edge of the chair in the bar for your pre-dinner cocktail). Using the hand sanitizer is cheap, quick and there are no contraindications for the overwhelming majority of people.

Hand sanitizers are very effective against bacteria (including E. coli and fecal streptococci) and certain types of viruses (including influenza, hepatitis B and herpes simplex 1 and 2).

https://aem.asm.org/content/76/2/394

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2813169/

The hand sanitizers should be considered a part of a good hygiene program and skipping them is just leaving oneself and others open to potential risk that could have been reduced with a very simple procedure.

Ultimately, hygiene on a cruise is a community problem, no one persons daily habits can fully separate them from the impacts of what other people do or don't do.

The simplest ways to help yourself are to wash your hands frequently and thoroughly, use the hand sanitizer before eating as an added measure, touch only the public surfaces that you must and don't eat with your hands.

The unfortunate reality is that even the strictist adherence to the above will not reduce your risk to zero, so many people from so many places, in such a small place represents a higher risk of infection of some time being passed. So, the smart money is on taking every opportunity available to reduce the risk.

Which also means that I have, and will in the future, called out anyone leaving the restroom without washing their hands.

The sensible approach is not to eat in the buffet where tongs, plates, and food has been handled by other passengers. If you are daft enough to eat there, don't use your fingers to eat anything.

And certainly don't eat anything that has been touched by the crew because........oh, wait...

...the reality is that unless the sink is in the buffet or the entrance to the dining room, you are almost guaranteed to come in contact with some surface...

We have recently cruised on Disney, Royal and MSC and all now have sinks with soap dispensers right as you enter the buffet area, along with employees doing the best they can to enforce hand washing, handing out paper towels, and dispensing hand sanitizer as an alternative.

Also, at the kids club on Disney, they had these futuristic looking machines with lights where kids (and parents) are required to stick their hands in before they are allowed to enter. High pressured, warm soapy water spins around each hand, and the machine stops automatically when the cycle is complete. They are really fun and easy to use! I’ve thought that it would be great to install similar machines for adults at buffets on all cruise lines. More adults would probably use them just for the fun factor! [emoji23]

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Anyone not using the sanitisers for whatever reason are the problem because it increases the belief they are optional.

 

The sensible approach is not to eat in the buffet where tongs, plates, and food has been handled by other passengers. If you are daft enough to eat there, don't use your fingers to eat anything.

And yet, every year millions of cruise passengers eat in the buffet and don't get sick.

...you are almost guaranteed to come in contact with some surface during your transit to the area (the door to your cabin, the railing in the passage way or staircase, the elevator button, your cruise card, the edge of the chair in the bar for your pre-dinner cocktail).

Well this is true. But then you have just described being alive. Sort of living inside a sterile plastic bubble, what else do you suggest ?

Well this is true. But then you have just described being alive. Sort of living inside a sterile plastic bubble, what else do you suggest ?

As I said above:

"The simplest ways to help yourself are to wash your hands frequently and thoroughly, use the hand sanitizer before eating as an added measure, touch only the public surfaces that you must and don't eat with your hands."