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Bermuda rolls back marriage equality


Ken_W
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Bermudian parliament has decided that gay and lesbian cannot marry (the Bermudian high court had ruled they could) and now only qualify for domestic partnership. Will this change anyone's travel plans? It seems our relationships only qualify as second best...

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Yes, it is at the moment as our sailing is not until August and meant things can change which will affect our decision to deal there.

 

Bon voyage

 

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

Meant = many

 

Sorry about that.

 

Bon voyage

 

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

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Yes, it is at the moment as our sailing is not until August and meant things can change which will affect our decision to deal there.

 

Bon voyage

 

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

 

You're very optimistic. That's nice.

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Must admit I have no plans to visit Bermuda given this news. Again, like someone said, there are plenty of other friendlier places to visit. The question is whether anyone already booked - especially with marriage vows to take place on board - will cancel now that P&O and Cunard cannot legally hold marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples? Sad state of affairs that came out of this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'll throw my two cents in here...

 

I was there on a sailing a few years back when they had their Bermuda Day parade. I didn't know the island had so many kids and dance troupes! I thought every kid on the island was in the parade! Anyway, at the near end of the parade there was a person who was either a drag queen or transgender. She was marching and I don't know if she was an authorized to do it or not since she was at the end. However, the parade was so lengthy that I decided to start walking back towards the ferry terminal but when she went by the amount of boos and comments were appalling. I would've expected this behavior of out of Jamaica but not Bermuda.

 

With that said I still visit Bermuda if the price is right. However, I don't do much off the ship as I've been over 5 times now. I book for the ship that goes there and enjoy the ship when no one is on it. Last time I went on the Breakaway I stayed in Spice H2O the whole time and sunned there while everyone was at the beach. Bermudians, minus their stance on LGBT rights, are nice people and not out to make a quick buck on you unlike Jamaica. The combination of both for Jamaica is a complete turn off and I avoid sailing there. Sad NCL has now decided to incorporate it more into their sailings. I loved them because they avoided the island like the plague.

 

Hopefully the Bermudian officials will come around. Can't believe the Queen didn't step in and tell them to stop the rubbish. Oh well...

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Glad I decided to look in on this thread. Seeing what I've read, my partner and I would definitely not bother spending any of our time and money in either Jamaica or Bermuda. I've heard that the Cayman Islands is another country to avoid, if you're gay. True or not? It still amazes me that in the 21st century, we can continue to have people so utterly ignorant and illogically fearful of others who are different in how they live their private lives. Truly sad.

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Glad I decided to look in on this thread. Seeing what I've read, my partner and I would definitely not bother spending any of our time and money in either Jamaica or Bermuda. I've heard that the Cayman Islands is another country to avoid, if you're gay. True or not? It still amazes me that in the 21st century, we can continue to have people so utterly ignorant and illogically fearful of others who are different in how they live their private lives. Truly sad.

 

When one lives in an insular world, then it is understandable. There are many individuals who harbour the same thoughts and feelings here in the US, correct?

 

In which case, most of the Caribbean needs to be avoided by vacationers who abhor such attitudes and would not spend one (1) $ for this. This also includes Mexico too...

 

Personally, I believe it is exposure to the greater world and interaction.

 

For those who are proverbially 'stuck' on their island, then there can be neither exposure or interaction beyond what they know and fear in their hearts... then again, those fear mongers and haters here in the US have the advantage, generally, of information and exposure but still over the top on such issues. Quite often we will support those affected by these individuals/groups here in the US in one form or another or many of us will, I need to add.

 

Nothing like keeping the homeland issues from those in other countries with similar issues right?

 

After all it is vacation, we should put our energy in being supportive of others who may need it. We can be very selective on who we support while away from home or not.

 

Just my take on the issue.

 

bon voyage

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Great post Bo!

One can find ugly, bigoted people anywhere. Unfortunately, protests against gay people are often organized by various political and/or religious groups and don't necessarily reflect prevailing attitudes. And those protests and other hate-filled activities get a lot of play in the press.

To avoid travel to countries with anti-gay (or anti-whatever) positions would be to limit oneself to a very small segment of the world. And as Bo so well expressed, American leaders and laws have been guilty of this.

The official platform of the party currently in power in the US condemns the Supreme Court rulings on same-sex marriage and espouses "traditional marriage" as the foundation of a "free society" (apparently freedom is for some and not all). So we Americans need to clean our own house and be cognizant of bigoted, unreasoned leaders and positions within our own country before damning others.

I strongly believe that exposure to what is scary can make a big difference in attitudes.

My husband and I have traveled the world in our 27 years together and we've visited plenty of places that are considered hostile to us. When people see gay people who behave just like everyone else, who participate in their economies, and who respond in friendly and accommodating manners, the mystique and fear they have might be eased and our commonalities just might be recognized.

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Great post Bo!

One can find ugly, bigoted people anywhere. Unfortunately, protests against gay people are often organized by various political and/or religious groups and don't necessarily reflect prevailing attitudes. And those protests and other hate-filled activities get a lot of play in the press.

To avoid travel to countries with anti-gay (or anti-whatever) positions would be to limit oneself to a very small segment of the world. And as Bo so well expressed, American leaders and laws have been guilty of this.

The official platform of the party currently in power in the US condemns the Supreme Court rulings on same-sex marriage and espouses "traditional marriage" as the foundation of a "free society" (apparently freedom is for some and not all). So we Americans need to clean our own house and be cognizant of bigoted, unreasoned leaders and positions within our own country before damning others.

I strongly believe that exposure to what is scary can make a big difference in attitudes.

My husband and I have traveled the world in our 27 years together and we've visited plenty of places that are considered hostile to us. When people see gay people who behave just like everyone else, who participate in their economies, and who respond in friendly and accommodating manners, the mystique and fear they have might be eased and our commonalities just might be recognized.

 

So what are these places you thought were so nice? Are locals treated as well as tourists? :confused:

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So what are these places you thought were so nice? Are locals treated as well as tourists? :confused:

 

I have been to Jamaica several times and had great treatment, fully understanding the 'overall' tenor of thoughts about same sex couples/individuals, in fact been throughout the Caribbean and Mexico and understood the attitudes, especially in remote areas.

 

I have been to Ireland, in the outskirts and beyond of the 'metropolitan' areas, the attitudes are quite similar to those of the Caribbean, as well as in Germany, Austria and Italy. Morocco and Egypt as quite similar if not more conservative...

 

Knowing and having an inkling of 'their' values, which often times are/were very different than mine never stopped me from visiting, interacting and letting them know that I Am no different than they, maybe have different approaches to things. Yes, there are knuckle heads everywhere and in concentrations I find more on cruise ships, in my experience. Just depends on how one chooses to interact with them or not.

 

For me, some of the rural areas of Austria were the scariest in terms of meeting people who believed I did not belong in their country under any circumstances or possibly the world, did I damn the whole country, no.

 

 

bon voyage

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So what are these places you thought were so nice? Are locals treated as well as tourists? :confused:

I urge you to read carefully and not make assumptions based on your own biases. I didn't specify any destination as "so nice". But I don't regret any of my travels.

Certainly there are many places where many of us travel where tourists are treated better than locals.

You tend to give short, non-informative responses to various posts. So in an effort to understand where you're coming from, would you mind sharing a list of countries where you would comfortably travel?

Have you been to any countries that don't perform same-sex marriage and, if so, do you regret those visits?

And to explore your question further, do you only visit countries where locals are treated as well as tourists?

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I urge you to read carefully and not make assumptions based on your own biases. I didn't specify any destination as "so nice". But I don't regret any of my travels.

Certainly there are many places where many of us travel where tourists are treated better than locals.

You tend to give short, non-informative responses to various posts. So in an effort to understand where you're coming from, would you mind sharing a list of countries where you would comfortably travel?

Have you been to any countries that don't perform same-sex marriage and, if so, do you regret those visits?

And to explore your question further, do you only visit countries where locals are treated as well as tourists?

 

m - thank you... well put and thought out, to be sure.

 

bon voyage

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I urge you to read carefully and not make assumptions based on your own biases. I didn't specify any destination as "so nice". But I don't regret any of my travels.

Certainly there are many places where many of us travel where tourists are treated better than locals.

You tend to give short, non-informative responses to various posts. So in an effort to understand where you're coming from, would you mind sharing a list of countries where you would comfortably travel?

Have you been to any countries that don't perform same-sex marriage and, if so, do you regret those visits?

And to explore your question further, do you only visit countries where locals are treated as well as tourists?

You tend to give short, non-informative responses to various posts.

 

That's rather rude.

 

I have traveled in Western/Central Europe and usually felt comfortable. I have been to Peru and Argentina and felt comfortable. Late this year I'll go back to Argentina and also to Chile. I have been to Russia and China and didn't have a problem etc etc. Was that because people were so open or because as a single traveler, I didn't stand out? I don't know.

 

I've always wanted to go to Iran but I know how they treat LGBT people. I'm really conflicted about whether I should go there. I have no interest in going to Jamaica or most other places that harrass LGBT.

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You tend to give short, non-informative responses to various posts.

 

That's rather rude.

 

I have traveled in Western/Central Europe and usually felt comfortable. I have been to Peru and Argentina and felt comfortable. Late this year I'll go back to Argentina and also to Chile. I have been to Russia and China and didn't have a problem etc etc. Was that because people were so open or because as a single traveler, I didn't stand out? I don't know.

 

I've always wanted to go to Iran but I know how they treat LGBT people. I'm really conflicted about whether I should go there. I have no interest in going to Jamaica or most other places that harrass LGBT.

 

My intention wasn't to be rude but rather to be direct.

You mention Russia and China as places you have been and that you haven't had a problem. That's great, but you should know that those two countries have abysmal records of treatment of LGBT people and other minorities. In addition, neither of those countries, as well as some others you've undoubtedly visited, neither sanction nor recognize same-sex marriage.

My point is that there is a problem with consistency with some gay people who insist on not traveling to certain countries deemed to be anti-LGBT but turn a blind eye to others. And again, we here in the US have our own dirty laundry.

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My intention wasn't to be rude but rather to be direct.

You mention Russia and China as places you have been and that you haven't had a problem. That's great, but you should know that those two countries have abysmal records of treatment of LGBT people and other minorities. In addition, neither of those countries, as well as some others you've undoubtedly visited, neither sanction nor recognize same-sex marriage.

My point is that there is a problem with consistency with some gay people who insist on not traveling to certain countries deemed to be anti-LGBT but turn a blind eye to others. And again, we here in the US have our own dirty laundry.

 

m - I get it now, in all of the countries that were mentioned (except China) he/she can blend into the background without being called out, whereas myself, even in countries where the majority of citizens are of African descent most know I Am not one of them by my dress and most certainly when I speak... thus setting me apart, rather I try to blend in or not... LOL

 

Both Russia and China have abysmal Human Rights records rather the poster chooses to acknowledge the facts or not. It must be for additional reasons they do not want to go to Jamaica and/or other Caribbean countries and needs to come clean about it.

 

Thank you again and bon voyage

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My intention wasn't to be rude but rather to be direct.

You mention Russia and China as places you have been and that you haven't had a problem. That's great, but you should know that those two countries have abysmal records of treatment of LGBT people and other minorities. In addition, neither of those countries, as well as some others you've undoubtedly visited, neither sanction nor recognize same-sex marriage.

My point is that there is a problem with consistency with some gay people who insist on not traveling to certain countries deemed to be anti-LGBT but turn a blind eye to others. And again, we here in the US have our own dirty laundry.

 

Russia is a place I would hesitate to visit again. I don't consider China in the same way, and I would go there again. Every individual has the right and responsibility to decide what countries they visit. Can a person be openly LGBT, can they visit clubs without fear of arrest? Can they get married? Are they in fear of execution if they come out?

 

Would you be happy if I moved to Canada or is that country not LGBT-friendly enough? You seem to want to impose a standard on other people that you do not maintain yourself.

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m - I get it now, in all of the countries that were mentioned (except China) he/she can blend into the background without being called out, whereas myself, even in countries where the majority of citizens are of African descent most know I Am not one of them by my dress and most certainly when I speak... thus setting me apart, rather I try to blend in or not... LOL

 

Both Russia and China have abysmal Human Rights records rather the poster chooses to acknowledge the facts or not. It must be for additional reasons they do not want to go to Jamaica and/or other Caribbean countries and needs to come clean about it.

 

Thank you again and bon voyage

 

How are you noticed by your voice or clothes but i am not? I think one person can blend in easier than two. I have nothing to come clean about. Everyone uses their judgment.

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Russia is a place I would hesitate to visit again. I don't consider China in the same way, and I would go there again. Every individual has the right and responsibility to decide what countries they visit. Can a person be openly LGBT, can they visit clubs without fear of arrest? Can they get married? Are they in fear of execution if they come out?

 

Would you be happy if I moved to Canada or is that country not LGBT-friendly enough? You seem to want to impose a standard on other people that you do not maintain yourself.

Sorry, but you are dramatically missing the point.

Of course anyone can visit the countries they wish. Did you even read my first post on this thread?

This thread started as a judgment of Bermuda (and later on Jamaica) because of their record on LGBT rights and some said they wouldn't visit because of those records. My point is that this is inconsistent unless applied to all countries that one chooses to visit. I'm not imposing a standard on anyone - simply pointing out a lapse in logic that is rather common. I'm guilty of it myself at times. We're all human.

Not sure what your point is regarding you moving to Canada. This is a discussion board and we are having a discussion.

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How are you noticed by your voice or clothes but i am not? I think one person can blend in easier than two. I have nothing to come clean about. Everyone uses their judgment.

 

Usually, just usually, the clothing I wear at home and on vacation trends to be a higher quality than most men/guys wear. I tend to dress more formally, even when it is CC Casual, than most others I know or associate with and they are fine with it too. Just how I prefer to dress.

 

 

My spoken English tends to have no distinct American dialect/accent (e.g. New England, Southern, Western or mid-Atlantic). As such when I speak to people outside of the US, it is known that I Am American.

 

 

When I go with my spouse, who always dresses 'way down' from me, as it were, it is known and understood quite often that we are together, if it is not, it is made clear that we are. Again, very few problems as I dis-arm them before their heads start to spin as in The Exorcist...

 

 

Cultural exposure is what I go for and get it most often when traveling.

 

bon voyage

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Sorry, but you are dramatically missing the point.

Of course anyone can visit the countries they wish. Did you even read my first post on this thread?

This thread started as a judgment of Bermuda (and later on Jamaica) because of their record on LGBT rights and some said they wouldn't visit because of those records. My point is that this is inconsistent unless applied to all countries that one chooses to visit. I'm not imposing a standard on anyone - simply pointing out a lapse in logic that is rather common. I'm guilty of it myself at times. We're all human.

Not sure what your point is regarding you moving to Canada. This is a discussion board and we are having a discussion.

 

This isn't a discussion. It's more like a lecture. :rolleyes:

 

Yes, I do read all the posts in a thread. In case it isn't clear, yes I have read all your posts. You try to blend in and show people that gays are nothing to be afraid of. Good for you!

 

Yes I am selective in where I travel. I won't apologize for that.

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