Encore Christmas South Pacific disappointment

I am not surprised that there have been a number of posts on other threads about this Festive Season cruise where three of the nine port visits were cancelled.

This was our sixth cruise with Seabourn and we had not experienced any port cancellations previously. Other cruisers with more than 300 days with Seabourn advised that it was almost unprecedented for Seabourn to cancel so many ports.

Having arrived at Norfolk Island, we were particularly disappointed with the Captain's decision to leave the area immediately after announcing that tender operations would be too dangerous. After the announcement I abandoned my breakfast to rush to the deck to take photos of the old Kingston settlement before it disappeared out of view. As far as I could see there was no reason to prevent the ship from remaining in the area for half to an hour to allow passengers to view the island through binoculars and take photos.

From my point of view the Captain's responsibility in addition to sailing the ship safely is to optimise the passengers' cruising experience. There were no efforts to partly 'save the day' by providing an alternative island experience such as sailing around the island (at a safe distance of course) and/or conducting binocular viewing activities from the decks.

In my opinion Seabourn needs to do more work to ensure the robustness of its itineraries while providing varied and interesting destinations and develop alternative destination experiences when going ashore is not possible. A hastily prepared program of sea day activities is not enough.

Whilst the 10% discount on a future cruise is appreciated it does not compensate for the destination experiences lost.

Uh, ports get cancelled. It’s one of the risks one takes when choosing a cruise. Especially a cruise with more exotic, out-of-the-way ports. Sorry you were disappointed, but if you absolutely have to see a destination, it’s best to fly there. I’ve had plenty of ports cancelled from

Maui to Monte Carlo to Rarotonga to Venice. In every case, sea days were used in place of the port - except for my Silversea cruise last summer when St. Jean de Luz was cancelled and we did an overnight in Bilbao instead.

Focus on being fortunate to have had the resources to take the cruise, instead of focusing on things that went wrong.

Michael

A byproduct of trying to visit more intimate destinations particularly when tendering is required.

Having jumped out of helicopters and driven boats up the beach to facilitate a rapid exit I am sure I would have been able to cope with a tender bouncing around a fold out landing stage - assuming the bloke trying to get it alongside could manage which in most cases they can't, but I'm not the problem.

Everyone when asked is fit and able but look around the ship. How do you you tell someone less able that they can't get off today when I'm hopping off carrying a big bag of camera gear?

As for sticking around did you have weather charts and radar info to hand (handy for tracking rain) ?

Safety is number 1, 2 , 3 and 4. Placating passengers is number 5. I'd much rather be answering an angry rant on Cruise Critic than facing a Marine Accident Investigation Branch investigation on the death of a passenger who fell between the tender and the tender platform.

To put things into context on Sojourn this Christmas we made an early morning detour as we approached St Lucia to view the Pitons. It was only possible due to the relatively small size of the ship. For an hour or so I forgot I was on a cruise ship and thought I was back on my own motor yacht.

Henry :)

Yes, it's disappointing but ship happens. It's all part of cruising and while the Captain may be in charge of everything else, he doesn't control the weather which can be unpredictable almost anywhere, even the Mediterranean. It's true that some pax can be pretty naive (stubborn?) about their fitness and physical capabilities and have to be protected from themselves if nothing else. If the Captain decided to "risk it" you can guarantee the lawsuits would start flying very soon afterwards.

Whether there should be contingency plans for alternative activities on days when tendering is deemed impossible is another matter and there probably should be something organised for disgruntled guests.

while disappointing, some of it was weather (ie, that sub-tropical storm that was coming in was brutal in Auckland)

some of it was on Fiji / Dravuni for not getting their pontoon out there (but again, they would blame the weather and the holiday).

I thought Handre did an excellent job trying to salvage those sea days. You're probably right that hanging out by Norfolk a little longer would've been nice, as I was surprised we tore off too (after we parked at Dravuni for the day despite not tendering).

The risks of tender ports and the South Pacific in Dec/Jan. You know if they could've gotten us ashore, they would have.

The risks of tender ports and the South Pacific in Dec/Jan. You know if they could've gotten us ashore, they would have.

But would they have got us back? :)

We were also on this cruise as I have mentioned in the topic "Encore leaving Auckland" a few days ago

I sent an email earlier in the morning to my cousin who lives at Norfolk Island, saying that there would be grumpy people on board if we did not land

Her response was "Quote Far too rough to disembark passengers. Too bad if they are grumpy, tell them they are safe on the ship! Go and book a trip to Norfolk by Air! " about the same time the Captain announced that we were leaving

Knowing Kingston Wharf as we have flown to Norfolk Island 10 or so times as recently as last May and watched how the Norfolk Islanders launch the smaller charter day fishing boats by placing the passengers into the boat sitting on the trailer then lifting everything by crane, swinging out over the ocean then lowering into the water

They retrieve the boat and passengers the same way Even when it is calm. They do not use the old steps or boat ramp. I have wondered how the tenders would get on?

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g446955-d447206-i18974071-Kingston-Kingston_Norfolk_Island.html

[url=https://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g446955-d447206-i18974071-Kingston-Kingston_Norfolk_Island.html][/url]https://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cdn.tripadvisor.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto-s%2F05%2F1e%2F00%2F77%2Fview-from-kingston-jetty.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tripadvisor.com.au%2FLocationPhotoDirectLink-g295119-d447221-i85852279-Phillip_Island-Norfolk_Island.html&docid=9ogBw-q5r5CzYM&tbnid=pXxsGNaTRblbTM%3A&w=550&h=412&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim

Re sailing around Norfolk Island for a look there are only cliffs and trees once one was to leave Kingston wharf area

The day before we got to Norfolk the Princess Jewel, I think it was, unloaded 1800 passengers according to my cousin

We just seemed to be a few days out weather wise for missing ports the whole cruise

The weather has been fine in Auckland from Saturday on

I can identify with the OP's sense of frustration. The ship has enough notice of inclimate weather to sometimes change ports. I stress sometimes.

I sailed on Encore this last summer when a port had to change due to weather. The Captain docked us on Corsica versus the planned Sardinia...so they sometimes can make allowances for weather. Perhaps the Pacific location of this itinerary didn't allow for any suitable substitutions.

I can identify with the OP's sense of frustration. The ship has enough notice of inclimate weather to sometimes change ports. I stress sometimes.

I sailed on Encore this last summer when a port had to change due to weather. The Captain docked us on Corsica versus the planned Sardinia...so they sometimes can make allowances for weather. Perhaps the Pacific location of this itinerary didn't allow for any suitable substitutions.

Sardinia and Corsica are pretty close together so diverting is fairly easy. Norfolk Island is a long way from anywhere.

I've been on a couple of rough tenders and I totally understand the concern with getting on/off. I've learned to always take the hand/arm of the tender staff who are helping with boarding/deboarding the tenders after once having the tender bob downward about 18" just as I was stepping out. Had they not had my arm, it would have been a nasty fall for me.

That brings up an interesting question we were debating last week on our Odyssey sailing. What happens when the cruise line has to suspend tender operations midday and cannot resume them?

A few years ago, we had a stop on Sojourn at St Barths from 8 am to 11 pm. We disembarked early in the morning to go on a Virtuoso tour and decided at 3 pm when we returned from the tour to go back to shore as the weather was starting to look a bit grey. About an hour later, Seabourn suspended tender operations until further notice and we never saw another tender run that day/evening.

What would happen if guests were out in port (perhaps touring on their own or with another operator) and they had to suspend tender operations. We were debating what the likely response would be but I'm curious if anyone knows from personal or second-hand experience?

(Our guess was that they would leave word with the port agent who would help the guests make arrangements to meet the ship in the next port... but then there is the matter of passports and belongings and whatnot. We know that those are generally left behind for guests if the ship leaves without someone at all-aboard/sail away time, but if tenders couldn't run then I couldn't imagine how they'd deal with that safely.)

I've been on a couple of rough tenders and I totally understand the concern with getting on/off. I've learned to always take the hand/arm of the tender staff who are helping with boarding/deboarding the tenders after once having the tender bob downward about 18" just as I was stepping out. Had they not had my arm, it would have been a nasty fall for me.

 

That brings up an interesting question we were debating last week on our Odyssey sailing. What happens when the cruise line has to suspend tender operations midday and cannot resume them?

 

A few years ago, we had a stop on Sojourn at St Barths from 8 am to 11 pm. We disembarked early in the morning to go on a Virtuoso tour and decided at 3 pm when we returned from the tour to go back to shore as the weather was starting to look a bit grey. About an hour later, Seabourn suspended tender operations until further notice and we never saw another tender run that day/evening.

 

What would happen if guests were out in port (perhaps touring on their own or with another operator) and they had to suspend tender operations. We were debating what the likely response would be but I'm curious if anyone knows from personal or second-hand experience?

 

(Our guess was that they would leave word with the port agent who would help the guests make arrangements to meet the ship in the next port... but then there is the matter of passports and belongings and whatnot. We know that those are generally left behind for guests if the ship leaves without someone at all-aboard/sail away time, but if tenders couldn't run then I couldn't imagine how they'd deal with that safely.)

"A CONTINGECY plan is being written up for Stanley so that the town will be better prepared if it ever again finds itself overnight host to hundreds of stranded cruise ship passengers.

On February 2nd [2005] almost a thousand visitors ? equivalent to half Stanley's population ? were stranded for a night after high winds prevented them from taking tenders back to their cruise ship, Amsterdam.

Stanley residents, officials and businesses rallied round and their hospitality will have become the talking point of the holiday for many. Despite the overwhelming number of guests and the lack of notice, everyone was fed and given somewhere to lay their head ? with more than half being welcomed into private homes.

The night was not, however, without its problems. Many passengers, few of them in the first flush of youth, slept on mattresses on the floor of the Falkland Islands Defence Force drill hall, while some residents who had offered spare beds sat up until the small hours of the morning waiting for guests who never arrived.

Hospital staffs were inundated with those who had not thought to bring extra supplies of vital medication ashore ? and some who didn't actually know what drugs they should be taking, or in what quantities."

http://en.mercopress.com/2005/02/24/stanley-draws-up-plans-for-stranded-cruise-passengers

intersting question jenidallas.

I'd like to imagine Seabourn would organise a helicopter to take you out and winch you down on deck..... I expect it would have to be a luxury harness.....

intersting question jenidallas.

I'd like to imagine Seabourn would organise a helicopter to take you out and winch you down on deck..... I expect it would have to be a luxury harness.....

Would there be champagne on the helicopter? If not, I'm out. :D

Would there be champagne on the helicopter? If not, I'm out. :D

Hopefully before it has taken off:evilsmile:

It was about 15 years ago, but we were on the first tender in Rovinji in Croatia. It was bouncy going ashore, and as we arrived the heavens opened. We decided to stay on the tender and go back to the ship. Three or four people got off. By the time we returned, the Captain had suspended tender operations. The problem was, the CD was one of those stranded on shore. They did finally manage to rescue them just before the late afternoon sail away. But when we asked the Captain later, he said that he would have rather left them all there (helped by the port agent to get to the following day’s destination, of course) than take risks to retrieve them. He commented that the ship could manage without a CD for a couple of days, but it could not do without the tender...

Looking at the poll results so far, it would seem that there is support for more thought to be given by Seabourn to alternative destination experiences when tendering operations are not feasable or safe.

Looking at the poll results so far, it would seem that there is support for more thought to be given by Seabourn to alternative destination experiences when tendering operations are not feasable or safe.

But it also has to be geographically feasible.

Looking at the poll results so far, it would seem that there is support for more thought to be given by Seabourn to alternative destination experiences when tendering operations are not feasable or safe.

I just checked the poll results. It seems more then twice as many say it depends on circumstances and seem willing to accept this isn't always feasible.

I understand your disappointment but safety is paramount. I have seen some very frail guests insist on using the tender to get to shore when it was rough. As an ex-nurse I worried about them falling and fracturing a hip. I guess the Captain needs to be aware of this factor and take this into account on his decision making.

Also there may not be a alternative port to dock at due to them being already packed out with other ships.

Julie

I would imagine that any Itinerary listing Norfolk Island as a stop, will never happen! The same as the Encore has had Mooloolaba on their itinerary THREE times so far.....but not once been able to stop there! Oh well, suppose its much cheaper to put in a Tender place, and not have to pay Port Fees at Brisbane eh?

A ship landing either people or goods at Norfolk is a big deal....it is advertised on the local radio, so everyone can go down and watch! Quite a sight! Would LOVE to see a load of Seabourners being unloaded and craned up to the very high jetty!!

Greetings Brisbane Gran, exactly along the lines we thought the real situation was.

After returning home and having good access to the net, one only has to Google for photos of the two piers to realise the situation for landing passengers. It appears to require dead flat seas, and close to high tide to clear the apparent sand bar across the entrance to the Kingston pier. I would suspect that the chance of having all the right conditiond aligning was about 10%, and with these odds it should not have been listed or considered as a stop. As it was, this cruise had many sea day's and with the landings at Dravuni Island and Russell in the Bay of Islands NZ also abandoned, it was a dissapointment to say the least.

In fairness to the Captain and Seabourn, the Russell cancellation was a resonable call with a very severe weather situation predicted.

we have watched landings at Kingston, done by the very experienced Norfolk Islanders.....and yes, there is a very narrow entrance, through very rough seas, but I don't know if its sand or rocks or reef, but obviously needs a lot of experience to get in and out safely. I somehow don't think the Seabourn Tender drivers would be quite up to the task, I know they are very good, but I doubt Norfolk would be one they could manage safely!

I have noticed that people often criticize Seabourn for using tenders, saying that Seabourn is just trying to save money by not paying expensive port fees. But, I thought that each passenger's share of port fees is added onto the fare price that we pay. If you look at the SB website, this seems to be plainly stated. And if you look at each cruise offering, the stated port fees per passenger are different for each cruise. I noted that our upcoming Baltic Sea cruise has much more expensive port fees than last fall's cruise around Italy. So--it is passengers who are ultimately footing the bill for port fees, not Seabourn. Please correct me if I am mistaken about this.

Finding a harbour wall big enough to pull up alongside and tie up to is quite tricky if you are 35,000 tonnes and want to explore quieter more out of the way ports of call.

Dropping the hook and using tenders allows you to enjoy anywhere that will take a shallow draft 45 foot pleasure boat.

Often it has nothing to do with cost, everything to do with what's available.

Henry :)

I would imagine that any Itinerary listing Norfolk Island as a stop, will never happen! The same as the Encore has had Mooloolaba on their itinerary THREE times so far.....but not once been able to stop there! Oh well, suppose its much cheaper to put in a Tender place, and not have to pay Port Fees at Brisbane eh?

A ship landing either people or goods at Norfolk is a big deal....it is advertised on the local radio, so everyone can go down and watch! Quite a sight! Would LOVE to see a load of Seabourners being unloaded and craned up to the very high jetty!!

In the past cruise ships and cargo ships have had the choice of two wharves, Kingston and Cascades Wharf which is on the opposite side of Norfolk Island giving better odds of a tender landing as one wharf could be more sheltered from the swell. The Australian Government is spending lots of millions of dollars extending the Cascades Wharf which is due to be finished soon. When we were there in May one could not get anywhere close to Cascades Wharf due to all the construction work which is why we probably could not land there as the wharf is still not finished . Once this wharf is finished I would say that cruise ships will make more visits to Norfolk Island

http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/pf/releases/2016/March/pf038_2016.aspx

this is Kingston Wharf.....

and this is what people are missing!! Beautiful place!