Further Greenwich Cruise Terminal Delays.

I think there will definitely be a long long wait for the proposed Greenwich Cruise Ship Terminal. Our local paper reports that there has been so much controversy and local opposition to the plan, especially based on anticipated air pollution which they calculate as the equivalent of diesel from 700 trucks every hour when a ship docks that the developer Barratt London have now put the site up for sale. Apparently a clean electricity supply which would avoid the pollution would add at least six million UK pounds to build costs. The sale price for the site is around fifty million pounds. I suspect we are likely to see more apartment blocks and no cruise terminal in the foreseeable future.

Thank you for the update, Mrs. M.

Most unfortunate, as London sadly needs a new cruise terminal. We did a R/T from Tilbury last year and it can best be described as dilapidated. We are certainly glad Viking do not use Tilbury, even if it means tendering.

Due to the number of variables, I question the statistic that a single ship produces the equivalent pollution of 700 lorries. The Thames is an Emission Control Area, so ships cannot use heavy fuel, they must use fuel with very low sulphur limits, which have reduced since I retired. I believe the new limits are well below 1%. The smaller Viking ships also use significantly less fuel than some of the mega ships.

The average age of cruise ships are low, so they generally have the latest emissions technology/scrubbers. Can't say the same of many trucks and buses.

Not including Shore Power at a new terminal, in my opinion is scandalous. It should be one of the first services to be included, provided the shore power is generated by clean/renewable sources. My ship hooked up to shore power every night and that was even back in the 80's. Many West Coast ports in Canada/US have installed shore power over the past 10 years - Vancouver, Seattle & LA.

I think there will definitely be a long long wait for the proposed Greenwich Cruise Ship Terminal. Our local paper reports that there has been so much controversy and local opposition to the plan, especially based on anticipated air pollution which they calculate as the equivalent of diesel from 700 trucks every hour when a ship docks that the developer Barratt London have now put the site up for sale. Apparently a clean electricity supply which would avoid the pollution would add at least six million UK pounds to build costs. The sale price for the site is around fifty million pounds. I suspect we are likely to see more apartment blocks and no cruise terminal in the foreseeable future.

And the cars and people in all those apartment blocks don't pollute, right?;p And I certainly agree that the number of 700 trucks per hour is ludicrous.

And the cars and people in all those apartment blocks don't pollute, right?;p And I certainly agree that the number of 700 trucks per hour is ludicrous.

No one in those apartments will be allowed to eat beans. ;p

I have no idea if the figures Quoted by the local paper are correct. I can however confirm that there Is strong local opposition. Of course the proposed terminal should have the latest technology to reduce emissions and the local council are now insisting that this forms part of any new proposals. The fact that the current owners are selling might indicate that this is not an economically viable project.

No one in those apartments will be allowed to eat beans. ;p

There goes the full English breakfast....:eek:

The replies prompted a little Google research and the 'anti' campaign is siting the wonderful investment in new technology made by the Port of Los Angeles.

The children in the 12 schools within a half mile radius of the Greenwich site deserve the same care and attention to their health as the residents close to the port in Los Angeles.

Most unfortunate, as London sadly needs a new cruise terminal. We did a R/T from Tilbury last year and it can best be described as dilapidated. We are certainly glad Viking do not use Tilbury, even if it means tendering.

..

They are using Tilbury next year for the "In Search of the Northern Lights" journeys.

They are using Tilbury next year for the "In Search of the Northern Lights" journeys.

And because they are, they are not doing an overnight in London. They are dropping off the departing passengers, picking up the arriving passengers and departing for Norway. It makes me wonder why they are even bothering to make the ocean crossing instead of just going RT from Bergen.

And because they are, they are not doing an overnight in London. They are dropping off the departing passengers, picking up the arriving passengers and departing for Norway. It makes me wonder why they are even bothering to make the ocean crossing instead of just going RT from Bergen.

Admittedly we are a very small minority but it does make sense if you live an hour from Tilbury.

Our Viking Sun cruise next month is scheduled to leave Dover at 6 pm and doesn't arrive at Greenwich until 12:30 pm the next afternoon. I double-checked with Viking if it can possibly take 18+ hours to sail that short distance, and was told it is because they have to wait for the tide to change. [i'm not an experienced seaman, but how many high tides do you need for this sailing?] Anyway, I'm wondering if the change to Tilbury is to avoid the tide issue and offer more time on land?

The Thames can be a challenging river to navigate with outflows running about 5 kts. The tidal range is also over 20 feet. The tides are semidiurnal, so they normally have 2 highs each day, with about 12 hrs between them.

In Dover Straights and the Thames you must maintain the traffic separation schemes, which add many miles to the shortest distance. The East bound lane is on the French side of the channel, so they must cross over the channel before picking up the lanes.

They could also be avoiding heading up river on a big ebb, which can reduce the ship's speed by up to 5 kts. Don't know the actual date, so can't check the tide tables, but it is entirely reasonable that this could take up to 18 hrs

The Thames can be a challenging river to navigate with outflows running about 5 kts. The tidal range is also over 20 feet. The tides are semidiurnal, so they normally have 2 highs each day, with about 12 hrs between them.

 

In Dover Straights and the Thames you must maintain the traffic separation schemes, which add many miles to the shortest distance. The East bound lane is on the French side of the channel, so they must cross over the channel before picking up the lanes.

 

They could also be avoiding heading up river on a big ebb, which can reduce the ship's speed by up to 5 kts. Don't know the actual date, so can't check the tide tables, but it is entirely reasonable that this could take up to 18 hrs

Leaving Dover at 7 pm on 23 Aug, arriving Greenwich at 12:30 pm on 24 Aug.

Those on Viking Sky tonight in Greenwich have been lucky. Just sitting in our garden listening in the distance to the final song from The Greenwich Music Festival. It was Noel Gallagher and his High Flying Birds. Weirdly the last song was "all you need is love" sung along by everyone. This event is sponsored by Viking and tomorrow it is Il Divo. Saw the Sky in the Thames at High Water this evening. We sat and watched several beautiful tall ships pass by, some displaying their sails and passing close to the Sky. Hope those on board were told about them. A beautiful sight at sunset. Also watched the shuttle, which is much smaller than the large Thames Clippers, sail backwards from the dockside to the ship.

Greenwich was extremely busy today as many of the pubs had large screens up to watch the World Cup. Lots of cheers when England beat Sweden and also when Croatia beat Russia. Hope they were showing the games onboard.

Hope everyone has a great cruise. Wish we were onboard.

Leaving Dover at 7 pm on 23 Aug, arriving Greenwich at 12:30 pm on 24 Aug.

The London Tides - for Southend-on-Sea (at entrance to Thames). Times corrected to Daylight saving

23:56 HW 5.6m

06:07 LW 1.3m

12:20 HW 5.1m

The high tide at Greenwich should be about 30 to 45 mins after the times quoted above for Southend. Therefore, the ship will be arriving Greenwich just prior to high water.

For a routing, I doubt they will use the inshore zone up the UK coast from Dover, so via the traffic lanes, I estimate it is 120 to 140 miles to Southend, or 6 to 7 hrs at full speed. Therefore, the entire river transit would be on a falling tide.

I suggest they will set a speed to pass Southend after low water and ride the flood tide up river, docking at almost HW.

Please note - just my best somewhat informed guess, as it has been way too many years since I drew up courses for the Thames or English Channel.

Those on Viking Sky tonight in Greenwich have been lucky. Just sitting in our garden listening in the distance to the final song from The Greenwich Music Festival. It was Noel Gallagher and his High Flying Birds. Weirdly the last song was "all you need is love" sung along by everyone. This event is sponsored by Viking and tomorrow it is Il Divo. Saw the Sky in the Thames at High Water this evening. We sat and watched several beautiful tall ships pass by, some displaying their sails and passing close to the Sky. Hope those on board were told about them. A beautiful sight at sunset. Also watched the shuttle, which is much smaller than the large Thames Clippers, sail backwards from the dockside to the ship.

Greenwich was extremely busy today as many of the pubs had large screens up to watch the World Cup. Lots of cheers when England beat Sweden and also when Croatia beat Russia. Hope they were showing the games onboard.

Hope everyone has a great cruise. Wish we were onboard.

They were not showing the game onboard and in fact the TV reception was abysmal. Most channels were unable to receive except the Vking channel. It has been a rough start for most last evening - delays in pickup at airport and further delays in getting luggage in your room. But it is vacation and most sins are forgiven. We will see what today brings us. I know it will be spectacular.

The view last night of the tall ships and sunset was indeed truly amazing from our cabn!

Guess their couldn't have been many cruisers from England on board. Poor show by Viking. We just returned from Azamara and all the World Cup games were shown in Spirits Bar and also in the cabins. Have heard from friends still onboard that the England Sweden game yesterday was shown in the Cabaret Lounge.

Just returned from shopping in Waitrose. The sky is moored on the Thames just there. Stopped to watch for a while and today they are using the full size clippers.

Got some photos showing a group of kayakers plus the shuttle and 3 mast tall shiip. No idea how to post from my iPhone.

Guess their couldn't have been many cruisers from England on board. Poor show by Viking. We just returned from Azamara and all the World Cup games were shown in Spirits Bar and also in the cabins. Have heard from friends still onboard that the England Sweden game yesterday was shown in the Cabaret Lounge.

Just returned from shopping in Waitrose. The sky is moored on the Thames just there. Stopped to watch for a while and today they are using the full size clippers.

Got some photos showing a group of kayakers plus the shuttle and 3 mast tall shiip. No idea how to post from my iPhone.

Norway's not in. Just sayin' ;)

The London Tides - for Southend-on-Sea (at entrance to Thames). Times corrected to Daylight saving

 

23:56 HW 5.6m

06:07 LW 1.3m

12:20 HW 5.1m

 

The high tide at Greenwich should be about 30 to 45 mins after the times quoted above for Southend. Therefore, the ship will be arriving Greenwich just prior to high water.

 

For a routing, I doubt they will use the inshore zone up the UK coast from Dover, so via the traffic lanes, I estimate it is 120 to 140 miles to Southend, or 6 to 7 hrs at full speed. Therefore, the entire river transit would be on a falling tide.

 

I suggest they will set a speed to pass Southend after low water and ride the flood tide up river, docking at almost HW.

 

Please note - just my best somewhat informed guess, as it has been way too many years since I drew up courses for the Thames or English Channel.

Thank you so much! This explains the situation perfectly [or at least gives a perfectly possible explanation :)]

Norway's not in. Just sayin' ;)

Still "Viking Homelands" appears to include Sweden.

One of the things I love about Viking is their extensive in room TV service, with music, films etc. I am always banging on about how much better it is than on my other favourite line Azamara. This time Azamara wins.

Thank you so much! This explains the situation perfectly [or at least gives a perfectly possible explanation :)]

If you think about it let us know the routing and time at Southend when the cruise concludes. The Thames in daylight is a spectacular arrival. Enjoy

If you think about it let us know the routing and time at Southend when the cruise concludes. The Thames in daylight is a spectacular arrival. Enjoy

Sent from my iPad using Forums

The following post was made last night on the roll call for Viking Star--Into the Midnight Sun--London to Bergen July 14, 2018. It may also indicate why their is opposition to a new cruise port. It was made by a resident in the area of Greenwich Tier.

Quoting:

Hi All,

I'm not on your cruise but I am a resident on the Thames in Greenwich where the ship is currently berthed. I'm wondering if you can feedback some information to the crew? It's currently 1am on the morning of the 13th July. There is loud music coming from the ship and it echos around that area of the Thames which means myself and other residents in the area cannot sleep. This is the first time I can ever remember music this loud coming from a cruise ship and I've lived here 15 years so I am pretty used to it.

When you board the ship on Saturday and when you get to your meet and mingle, can you please ask the senior crew members to be a little more thoughtful? They are berthed in a residential area and noise laws prohibit loud noise after 11pm. We already have a large contingency of people in this neighbourhood who want to ban the cruise ships (i'm not one of them) so we prefer not to give them any ammunition. Please ask them to be considerate neighbours... :)

Loud music at night from the Viking Sun would have been very unusual on the WC. Possibly there was some special event. Still, excessively loud outdoor music was never heard in 4 months. I might suggest you email Viking direct and state your case. lThey will also have read of it here on Cruise Critic. I had a minor music issue onboard concerning piped in music and Viking got wind of it and the General Manager called me for a meeting and promptly took care of the problem. In my experience Viking are not about raucous music and are also very responsive to requests.