Picking Flights Based On Specific Aircraft

The girlfriend and I are traveling with another couple for a Viking cruise next April (Amsterdam to Basel, leaving April 2 or 3 and returning on April 13). We decided to go with Viking Air because of a promotion and will pony up for Air Plus, as well.

 

Good news for us is that we live in Chicago and there are two direct flights to AMS, United and KLM. Flights appear to be priced the same so I suspect we can select either via Viking Air. Bad news is that we really can't stand economy but don't have the resources/points/miles to upgrade to business -- neither United nor KLM have a proper premium economy option. KLM's "economy comfort" option doesn't look bad but I'd prefer to fly United for miles purposes. United's "economy plus" option... well, I guess it's something.

 

If we fly United, we would return via Lufthansa. There's a 1:10 departure from Basel via LH - much more palatable than the 6am departures via KLM or AF (which connect through CDG or AMS with 4 hour layovers).

 

However, we can also fly ORD to Detroit and fly Delta's Premium Select class to AMS. Delta's PE product seems really nice, relatively speaking (each seat has a footrest!). Wrinkle here is that despite 4 flights daily from DTW to AMS, it looks like only one aircraft has Premium Select - their new flagship A350. This would also put us on AF for the return leg and while reviews are generally not kind to AF's PE product, it seems better than regular economy and wouldn't be as bad for a day time flight.

 

I suspect I know the answer but would appreciate feedback - is it folly to plan on getting the one aircraft with the right seats and go out of our way to fly via DTW?

 

I mean, if that specific A350 is out of service for whatever reason, it's not like they can substitute another with the configuration we're counting on. I also doubt that we would get bumped up to business and would instead get Delta's Comfort+ (and maybe a financial benefit for the "drop" in class?). They could also swap that aircraft for one of the other 4 flights to AMS. If you fly Delta's Premium Select, the connecting US flights are via first class. I don't know that the ORD-DTW leg is the best route to experience the relative glory of first class, though...

Are the “airplus” costs the same...whether you fly DL, KLM or UA? If so, it seems with an equipment switch scenario you would be no worse off seat wise for the TA portion than the non stops from ORD. All you would “risk” is the fact that you took a one stop when you didn’t have to. That DL flight is the only one of those that you mentioned that is true PE.

Don't count on the aircraft type to stay the same. They can can type at the last minute depending on demand.

Are the “airplus” costs the same...whether you fly DL, KLM or UA? If so, it seems with an equipment switch scenario you would be no worse off seat wise for the TA portion than the non stops from ORD. All you would “risk” is the fact that you took a one stop when you didn’t have to. That DL flight is the only one of those that you mentioned that is true PE.

Good questions. Viking won't/can't give me specifics on pricing until early next month. I've been doing my homework in the meantime to understand what my options will be.

 

I suspect that flying out of ORD via KLM or UA will be the same cost and both would be included in the promotion Viking offered. Like you said, flying experience would roughly be the same on either equipment.

 

Viking did quote me a $795/person surcharge to fly PE. One question I have is if that can be "pro-rated" should only one leg have PE. For example, if we fly ORD-AMS on UA (no PE) but then BSL-MUC-ORD on LH, can we pay "only" $400 for LH's PE product (which seems somewhat underwhelming based on most reviews - but better than economy, if nothing else).

 

If they can't/won't pro-rate the PE surcharge, then I expect we would be on AF or LH and connect via CDG or MUC/FRA -or- DL and connect via DTW. DL seems to have the "best" PE product but only has the one aircraft available with true PE for the DTW-AMS route.

 

Now, there's a separate question as to whether or not PE is even worth $800/person but I don't want to beat that particular dead horse any further right now! Viking quoted a $3000/person surcharge for business.

Don't count on the aircraft type to stay the same. They can can type at the last minute depending on demand.

To be honest, this is very rare. In my 12 years of flying 100,000+ miles each year, I can't remember single time where the aircraft was changed due to demand at the last minute. Maintenance - sure, but not demand. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not really a common thing.

 

 

If you take, say, an A330 off of a route and put in an A320, now you have to find a place for that A330 to go. And, you took an A320 away from another route it was assigned to, which may or may not need an A330.

We have had type switches a few times. On flights returning home.

Go ahead and book it yourself (no need to involve any Cruise Air nonsense) directly through Delta.

 

Unlike Zach1213 I have experienced quite a few "equipment" shifts, but for US carriers this is largely just on shorter domestic flights. I'm fairly picky about the aircraft or specific flights, for example BA operate 777s and 747s between London Heathrow and JFK. I greatly prefer flying business class or first class on the 747 so will actively pick those and/or pay a premium over 777s. Occasionally the aircraft does get switched but it rarely involves a class of service disappearing. I've had Cathay Pacific flights where on the day of departure there was a switch and an aircraft with the old First Class seats showed up...twice in the space of a week (sad day!), and also on BA shorthaul flight where the aircraft type switched three times in the 7 days before departure including after online check-in!

 

I have had class of service disappear on a couple of times on AA recently where I was booked in FC but the schedule was changed a few months out to an aircraft that was coach only. AA gave me the option to fly indirectly and stay in FC on both flights or get a full refund so I could book coach on my own. Due to the timings I opted for the refund and rebooked non-stop in the cheap seats.

To be honest, this is very rare. In my 12 years of flying 100,000+ miles each year, I can't remember single time where the aircraft was changed due to demand at the last minute. Maintenance - sure, but not demand. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not really a common thing.

 

 

If you take, say, an A330 off of a route and put in an A320, now you have to find a place for that A330 to go. And, you took an A320 away from another route it was assigned to, which may or may not need an A330.

 

Lufthansa normally flies the A380 between Houston and Frankfurt, but during a slow period this past winter they were using old 747s.

Lufthansa normally flies the A380 between Houston and Frankfurt, but during a slow period this past winter they were using old 747s.

 

There's a difference there. Airlines typically have summer and winter schedules. It isn't uncommon for the planned winter schedule to differ from the summer one both in terms of frequencies and the equipment used. For example, flying larger aircraft into ski destinations, etc. The Hosuton market has also seen a bit of a drop in demand due to the weakening of oil prices.

 

Lufthansa do also have 747-8s which are NOT older 747s. To the untrained eye they look similar but side by side there are noticeable differences.

Good questions. Viking won't/can't give me specifics on pricing until early next month. I've been doing my homework in the meantime to understand what my options will be.

 

I suspect that flying out of ORD via KLM or UA will be the same cost and both would be included in the promotion Viking offered. Like you said, flying experience would roughly be the same on either equipment.

 

Viking did quote me a $795/person surcharge to fly PE. One question I have is if that can be "pro-rated" should only one leg have PE. For example, if we fly ORD-AMS on UA (no PE) but then BSL-MUC-ORD on LH, can we pay "only" $400 for LH's PE product (which seems somewhat underwhelming based on most reviews - but better than economy, if nothing else).

 

If they can't/won't pro-rate the PE surcharge, then I expect we would be on AF or LH and connect via CDG or MUC/FRA -or- DL and connect via DTW. DL seems to have the "best" PE product but only has the one aircraft available with true PE for the DTW-AMS route.

 

Now, there's a separate question as to whether or not PE is even worth $800/person but I don't want to beat that particular dead horse any further right now! Viking quoted a $3000/person surcharge for business.

 

DL also flies the A330 DTW to AMS, which is the likely suspect if the flagship is replaced. I like the 2-4-2 economy setup (comfort and regular), which as you say, is where you would probably end up if equipment replaced. You could luck out and get business as there are a few more business sets on the A330, if I recall correctly.

 

There are other things DL might do if a Flagship has mechanical problems. If it suited their schedule they could grab one that was scheduled for Asia as a replacement for the AMS flight and the Asia flight would get a replacement...who knows?

 

Isn’t there anything from ORD on Lufthansa? You’d get your points and they have a PE.

Edited May 23, 2018 by buggins0402

DL is in the process of acquiring more A350s, as it's a new model for them. Between now and next April, there will be more in the fleet.

 

Also, the aircraft currently used on a major hub to hub route stand a good chance of being swapped around in the next 11 months. One A350 today but there could be more down the road.

“I mean, if that specific A350 is out of service for whatever reason, it's not like they can substitute another with the configuration we're counting on. I also doubt that we would get bumped up to business and would instead get Delta's Comfort+ (and maybe a financial benefit for the "drop" in class?). They could also swap that aircraft for one of the other 4 flights to AMS. If you fly Delta's Premium Select, the connecting US flights are via first class. I don't know that the ORD-DTW leg is the best route to experience the relative glory of first class, though...”

 

 

I flew the DTW to AMS Premium Select a couple weeks ago. About a week before the trip, Delta canceled my flight to DTW, and because the new flight was SkyWest, I lost the FC seat and had to pay extra just to get comfort + on the SkyWest flight. When I called Delta, I was told that the first class or Comfort + seats on connecting Delta flights are “complimentary upgrades” and I would not be getting any miles or refunds. I did get my luggage marked as priority, and they were the first ones on the conveyor at AMS. Anyway, just make sure your connecting flights are Delta.

 

 

Also, and maybe it’s not a priority for you, but is there any way to go the Basel to Amsterdam route so you might be able to catch the tulips at Keukenhof later in the month? That’s a really nice day trip.

There's a difference there. Airlines typically have summer and winter schedules. It isn't uncommon for the planned winter schedule to differ from the summer one both in terms of frequencies and the equipment used. For example, flying larger aircraft into ski destinations, etc. The Hosuton market has also seen a bit of a drop in demand due to the weakening of oil prices.

 

Lufthansa do also have 747-8s which are NOT older 747s. To the untrained eye they look similar but side by side there are noticeable differences.

 

When I booked the Dec 22 flight to Frankfurt it was on an A380. Not long before the flight I found my seat number changed (business class) and discovered that the plane had changed. Not sure of the age of the plane, but the "upstairs" part where I was seated was rather ratty.

Lufthansa do also have 747-8s which are NOT older 747s. To the untrained eye they look similar but side by side there are noticeable differences.

 

And a very good chance that they are newer than an A380.

We have had type switches a few times. On flights returning home.

 

Flights of what length? How many types of planes do you think an airline has that can do 8 hour flights over water? 3 hour flights, maybe.

Flights of what length? How many types of planes do you think an airline has that can do 8 hour flights over water? 3 hour flights, maybe.

 

Some airlines have 787, 777, 747 and 380. (Maybe also 330, 340 and 767? Maybe some other?) As for types the number might be even higher.

 

(I'm far from an expert on planes, as you might see in what I wrote above, but some airlines have many types they can use.)

Some airlines have 787, 777, 747 and 380. (Maybe also 330, 340 and 767? Maybe some other?) As for types the number might be even higher.

 

(I'm far from an expert on planes, as you might see in what I wrote above, but some airlines have many types they can use.)

 

Yes, but not many. A380 is not owned by any US airline. 747 is no longer operated by any US airline.

 

My overall point was that for long haul flights, the capacity of the typical airplane is relatively the same...within a reasonable range...say 225-275 pax. (Noted exception the A380, again used by a relatively small number of airlines). Considering that issue, and distance considerations, airlines aren't going to swap planes very quickly due to demand for longhaul flights.

 

Mechanical reasons, last minute, much more likely.

How many types of planes do you think an airline has that can do 8 hour flights over water? 3 hour flights, maybe.

 

Actually quite a few, that's before you take into account that aircraft may have several seating configurations with the same type.

 

Just picking United for example...they have 2 x 763s, 1x 764, 4x 772, 1x 77W, 1 x788, 1 x789, 1 x752. So 11 configurations capable of providing longhaul.

Isn’t there anything from ORD on Lufthansa? You’d get your points and they have a PE.

 

There are a couple of options via LH. One via MUC with a 1h20m layover (enough time? I would go through passport control before departing for AMS, right?) and another via FRA with a 1h50m layover - both arrive into AMS at 10:20am. My understanding, though, is that it's better to land at your final TA destination. Or maybe it's just faster since you don't have passport control between you and your connecting flight?

 

Admittedly, I'm looking for a unicorn here. This is our first cruise (regardless of water type) and will be a special trip and I'd like to make the most of it. My gut says take the direct flight (UA or KLM) and make the best of it.

 

Again, if I fly out on United, I can return via LH at 1:10pm rather than 6am. While I've found decent bargains shopping VAT- and duty-free at airports, I'm not sure that 4hrs at CDG or AMS after a 4am wake-up call (if not earlier) is the smartest choice. LH offers the ability to "bid" for an upgrade - I've had good luck with that in the past. Reviews I've read of LH's PE product, though, are relatively underwhelming.

 

I flew the DTW to AMS Premium Select a couple weeks ago. About a week before the trip, Delta canceled my flight to DTW, and because the new flight was SkyWest, I lost the FC seat and had to pay extra just to get comfort + on the SkyWest flight. When I called Delta, I was told that the first class or Comfort + seats on connecting Delta flights are “complimentary upgrades” and I would not be getting any miles or refunds. I did get my luggage marked as priority, and they were the first ones on the conveyor at AMS. Anyway, just make sure your connecting flights are Delta.

 

 

Also, and maybe it’s not a priority for you, but is there any way to go the Basel to Amsterdam route so you might be able to catch the tulips at Keukenhof later in the month? That’s a really nice day trip.

That first class connecting flight was my first clue that holding out for a specific plane may be unwise. When I started checking flights a few weeks ago, the flagship plane showed a 8:10am arrival (reasonable!). Checking again more recently, that connecting flight no longer had the (G) glass and they moved the flagship to the 5:55am arrival (not as reasonable!). How was the Premium Select product/service? Noticeable improvement over regular economy?

 

I appreciate the tip, too, about Keukenhof. We're pretty much locked in at this point with the A>B route. We are planning on a pre-cruise stay in AMS for 2-3 days, though, so we could try and get out there before we depart. Did you rely on the express bus from Schiphol?

Actually quite a few, that's before you take into account that aircraft may have several seating configurations with the same type.

 

Just picking United for example...they have 2 x 763s, 1x 764, 4x 772, 1x 77W, 1 x788, 1 x789, 1 x752. So 11 configurations capable of providing longhaul.

 

You missed my point...see the post above yours.

 

I am an UA flyer. We don't see the 76Xs on the West Coast, so that eliminates them from consideration out of SFO. They seem to be phasing out the 75Xs from overseas flights, except to Hawaii, leaning towards PS service with them. The reason? Range, particularly if the have a headwind.

 

Writing this from Munich, after doing SFO-MUC non-stop on the 787-9. Nice bird...in Business.

There are a couple of options via LH. One via MUC with a 1h20m layover (enough time? I would go through passport control before departing for AMS, right?) and another via FRA with a 1h50m layover - both arrive into AMS at 10:20am. My understanding, though, is that it's better to land at your final TA destination. Or maybe it's just faster since you don't have passport control between you and your connecting flight?

 

Admittedly, I'm looking for a unicorn here. This is our first cruise (regardless of water type) and will be a special trip and I'd like to make the most of it. My gut says take the direct flight (UA or KLM) and make the best of it.

 

Again, if I fly out on United, I can return via LH at 1:10pm rather than 6am. While I've found decent bargains shopping VAT- and duty-free at airports, I'm not sure that 4hrs at CDG or AMS after a 4am wake-up call (if not earlier) is the smartest choice. LH offers the ability to "bid" for an upgrade - I've had good luck with that in the past. Reviews I've read of LH's PE product, though, are relatively underwhelming.

 

 

That first class connecting flight was my first clue that holding out for a specific plane may be unwise. When I started checking flights a few weeks ago, the flagship plane showed a 8:10am arrival (reasonable!). Checking again more recently, that connecting flight no longer had the (G) glass and they moved the flagship to the 5:55am arrival (not as reasonable!). How was the Premium Select product/service? Noticeable improvement over regular economy?

 

I appreciate the tip, too, about Keukenhof. We're pretty much locked in at this point with the A>B route. We are planning on a pre-cruise stay in AMS for 2-3 days, though, so we could try and get out there before we depart. Did you rely on the express bus from Schiphol?

 

 

Air Canada also has PE...and is Star Alliance.

 

FWIW...we usually prefer to connect in Europe when we have to do a one stop. Hotel rooms are more likely to be ready by the time we get to our final destination.

 

I counted the A350 flights out of DTW currently....there appears to be 5 daily (4 to Asia and the one to AMS).

Yes, but not many. A380 is not owned by any US airline. 747 is no longer operated by any US airline.

 

My overall point was that for long haul flights, the capacity of the typical airplane is relatively the same...within a reasonable range...say 225-275 pax. (Noted exception the A380, again used by a relatively small number of airlines). Considering that issue, and distance considerations, airlines aren't going to swap planes very quickly due to demand for longhaul flights.

 

Mechanical reasons, last minute, much more likely.

 

My number one choice is British Airways and they have 747, 777, 787 and 380. That's all I really know without doing any research.

 

When flying over the Atlantic there are many non US airlines to fly with so it's not really relevant if any US airlines have 747 or 380.

 

I agree with you that most longhaul airplanes have around the same number of passengers, except for 380, but an equipment change can still make a huge difference. Some planes may have first class, some don't. Some may have new seats, some don't.

 

BA also have some shorthaul 767 they can use over the Atlantic but I really hope they never do that! I should not be happy if I had booked Club World and they used one of their 767 for the flight!

 

They may not change equipment because of demand but they can do it for other reasons.

My overall point was that for long haul flights, the capacity of the typical airplane is relatively the same...within a reasonable range...say 225-275 pax.

No, I don't think this is right. Long-haul aircraft (ie those routinely used for long-haul flights in long-haul configurations) continuously cover the entire spectrum from less than 200 to the densest 380s (about 550 or thereabouts). There is no typical capacity ceiling at 275 or thereabouts; the capacity of 777s in typical operating configurations roughly spans 300 to 400 passengers, and at the upper end merges into the very high capacity region occupied by the 747 and the 380. Indeed, the 77W (777-300ER) is very often used by airlines as a 747 replacement. And, as you will have observed, US airlines operate plenty of 777s.

That first class connecting flight was my first clue that holding out for a specific plane may be unwise. When I started checking flights a few weeks ago, the flagship plane showed a 8:10am arrival (reasonable!). Checking again more recently, that connecting flight no longer had the (G) glass and they moved the flagship to the 5:55am arrival (not as reasonable!). How was the Premium Select product/service? Noticeable improvement over regular economy?

 

I appreciate the tip, too, about Keukenhof. We're pretty much locked in at this point with the A>B route. We are planning on a pre-cruise stay in AMS for 2-3 days, though, so we could try and get out there before we depart. Did you rely on the express bus from Schiphol?

 

The Premium Select was $800 r/t more than Main Cabin ( Comfort +wasn’t offered). It was very nice, and I loved the amenities ( large video screen, over the ears headphones, and a little more space ). The only problem I had was that they gave us bottled water, a drink, the headphones, a blanket and an amenity package when we boarded. Where to put all this stuff? There is very little space in the seat back to accommodate anything but the magazine. By the time you pull out your iPad or book, and the guy in front reclines his seat, there is no space left to move. ( and I’m a size 4 )

Add it to the very large meal trays that barely fit all the dishes, and even though I had an aisle seat, I was struggling to use the knife without spilling the drink.

 

On the upside, food was good and plentiful, and we had dedicated bathrooms and flight attendants in the PS area, so that was very nice. ( but I’m an old lady, so clean bathrooms and personable FAs are more important than just about anything LOL)

 

So yes, if only offered the choice between Premium Select and Main, definitely choose PS.

I’m flying back to AMS in June, but in Comfort+, so I’ll be better able to compare with PS on an overseas flight.

 

Re hotels - I stayed at the Movenpick and used the Connexxion shuttle. 17 euros. It is a 10 minute walk to the Centraal Station . You pass the river boats on the way.

https://www.schipholhotelshuttle.nl/

Suzanne123,

 

You raise an interesting question about "where do you put the stuff" that you get upon boarding. Where did you put "your stuff"?