Is muster drill on Oasis realistic?

I suppose we all hate the muster drill, but on the smaller ships you are where you would want to be in an emergency, standing in lines outside, ready to board a lifeboat if necessary. I know it's not the only meeting point but I cannot imagine in a real emergency being herded into a crowded low deck restaurant where exits from it seem minimal. It's quite claustrophobic in a drill and feels like the last place I would want to go in a real emergency.

I imagine "in the unlikely event of an actual emergency" there will be lot of chaos. Passengers fight to get a space in the buffet line, can you imagine how it will be to get to a life boat.

I hope we never need to test the system.

M

Not all "emergencies" where people would go to a muster station require life boats. I would hope nobody ever needs to deal with an actual emergency, but they do need someplace to meet.

I suppose we all hate the muster drill, but on the smaller ships you are where you would want to be in an emergency, standing in lines outside, ready to board a lifeboat if necessary. I know it's not the only meeting point but I cannot imagine in a real emergency being herded into a crowded low deck restaurant where exits from it seem minimal. It's quite claustrophobic in a drill and feels like the last place I would want to go in a real emergency.

I'm confused by what you are worried about.

Even though the mustering locations are not exactly next to the boats, they are in the location that you would walk immediately TO the boats. Which means that people are a lot spread out through the ship and not congested one one single deck.

You are going to exactly where you should go, where the vests are, and where you would line up to get on the boats.

I suppose we all hate the muster drill, but on the smaller ships you are where you would want to be in an emergency, standing in lines outside, ready to board a lifeboat if necessary. I know it's not the only meeting point but I cannot imagine in a real emergency being herded into a crowded low deck restaurant where exits from it seem minimal. It's quite claustrophobic in a drill and feels like the last place I would want to go in a real emergency.

You are mistakenly equating "muster station" with "lifeboat". The passenger muster and the muster stations are not really about getting into lifeboats, they are about accountability. There are many more times that passengers have been sent to their muster stations than times when the Captain was actually considering abandoning the ship. During an emergency, when the on-scene commander recommends to the Captain that the emergency has gotten to the point where he needs to know where all the passengers are, the Captain will decide whether to sound the muster alarm or not (by the way, that signal is not abandon ship, it is fire and general emergency). This gets the passengers to known locations and accounted for, so that the emergency teams under the on-scene commander can concentrate on the emergency (fire or whatever), or can assign assets to look for unaccounted for passengers who may be in the emergency area (casualty, injured, trapped). Under nearly all situations (I used to say always, until that idiot on the Concordia screwed up by the numbers), this muster would be called and taken hours before any decision was considered to abandon ship. The last thing you want to do is abandon a ship when you don't have to.

The indoor muster stations are not randomly chosen, they must meet design criteria for volume, power, ventilation, ingress and egress routes, and proximity to the boat stations. This is done when the ship is being designed, and uses the latest crowd and crisis management paradigm software that predicts how people will react in emergencies.

^^that

I imagine "in the unlikely event of an actual emergency" there will be lot of chaos. Passengers fight to get a space in the buffet line, can you imagine how it will be to get to a life boat.

 

I hope we never need to test the system.

M

Yeah like the Muster Station now... But combine the other two. Tell them there's a Grand Buffet on the Lifeboat, see how fast they get on board. I remember 10 yrs ago when the Oasis class Lifeboat was first shown, question on CC was how big does a lifeboat have to be before it gets it's own lifeboat?...

And Chief, well said as usual...

Yeah like the Muster Station now... But combine the other two. Tell them there's a Grand Buffet on the Lifeboat, see how fast they get on board. I remember 10 yrs ago when the Oasis class Lifeboat was first shown, question on CC was how big does a lifeboat have to be before it gets it's own lifeboat?...

And Chief, well said as usual...

One interesting fact about lifeboats, particularly those used as tenders. The USCG considers these to be "passenger vessels" in their own right, and therefore must be captained by a person holding a limited tonnage passenger vessel Master's license. So, unlike the 3rd Officers who drive the lifeboat/tenders on foreign ships, the POA must take a boat ashore without passengers, pick up 4 licensed Masters to drive the tenders and take them back to the ship before tendering can happen.

Another little known fact is that while the ship is required to have 2 certified "lifeboatmen" (specially trained in boat operation) per boat, on foreign ships most of these "lifeboatmen" are the deck officers, who will be nowhere near the lifeboats if they are ever launched. The boat crew are crew members who have received training onboard in operating the boats. For US flag ships, the USCG recognizes this flaw, and while all US officers (deck and engine) are certified lifeboatmen, their certificates don't count towards the required number. There must be certified lifeboatmen actually assigned as boat crew for each boat.

I'm confused by what you are worried about.

 

Even though the mustering locations are not exactly next to the boats, they are in the location that you would walk immediately TO the boats. Which means that people are a lot spread out through the ship and not congested one one single deck.

 

You are going to exactly where you should go, where the vests are, and where you would line up to get on the boats.

PERFECT response!

You are mistakenly equating "muster station" with "lifeboat". The passenger muster and the muster stations are not really about getting into lifeboats, they are about accountability. There are many more times that passengers have been sent to their muster stations than times when the Captain was actually considering abandoning the ship. During an emergency, when the on-scene commander recommends to the Captain that the emergency has gotten to the point where he needs to know where all the passengers are, the Captain will decide whether to sound the muster alarm or not (by the way, that signal is not abandon ship, it is fire and general emergency). This gets the passengers to known locations and accounted for, so that the emergency teams under the on-scene commander can concentrate on the emergency (fire or whatever), or can assign assets to look for unaccounted for passengers who may be in the emergency area (casualty, injured, trapped). Under nearly all situations (I used to say always, until that idiot on the Concordia screwed up by the numbers), this muster would be called and taken hours before any decision was considered to abandon ship. The last thing you want to do is abandon a ship when you don't have to.

 

The indoor muster stations are not randomly chosen, they must meet design criteria for volume, power, ventilation, ingress and egress routes, and proximity to the boat stations. This is done when the ship is being designed, and uses the latest crowd and crisis management paradigm software that predicts how people will react in emergencies.

In my opinion, this is information that should be emphasized during the muster drill. Perhaps spending a few minutes explaining just what a call to muster stations is intended to accomplish would be much more informative than the "wash your hands" video. At least, present this before the cute videos.

The passenger muster and the muster stations are not really about getting into lifeboats, they are about accountability.

Would you think that cameras that recognize faces would be sufficient to know where everyone is? Such tech is becoming off the shelf technology really fast, and the ships already have a zillion cameras installed.

In case of a real alarm, everyone could simply be sent to their cabin where the TV is automatically turned to a channel that explains what's happening and what they should do next. Everyone out of the way of the firefighters, and when needed, the TV would tell people when it's their turn to get to their lifeboat.

Even the drills feel a bit chaotic, with passengers confused about where they should be or what's happening at all. Adding 3 AM, people wearing life vests, screaming kids, a few who need a scooter, and general panic, the orderly mustering becomes a nightmare. The simple instruction "go to your room" must be familiar in any language.

Would you think that cameras that recognize faces would be sufficient to know where everyone is? Such tech is becoming off the shelf technology really fast, and the ships already have a zillion cameras installed.

 

In case of a real alarm, everyone could simply be sent to their cabin where the TV is automatically turned to a channel that explains what's happening and what they should do next. Everyone out of the way of the firefighters, and when needed, the TV would tell people when it's their turn to get to their lifeboat.

 

Even the drills feel a bit chaotic, with passengers confused about where they should be or what's happening at all. Adding 3 AM, people wearing life vests, screaming kids, a few who need a scooter, and general panic, the orderly mustering becomes a nightmare. The simple instruction "go to your room" must be familiar in any language.

So, you’re eating in the dining room on deck 4 and your cabin is on the opposite end of the ship on deck 12 - you really want to try to get to your cabin? Me, I’m going outside to the lifeboats.

One interesting fact about lifeboats, particularly those used as tenders. The USCG considers these to be "passenger vessels" in their own right, and therefore must be captained by a person holding a limited tonnage passenger vessel Master's license. So, unlike the 3rd Officers who drive the lifeboat/tenders on foreign ships, the POA must take a boat ashore without passengers, pick up 4 licensed Masters to drive the tenders and take them back to the ship before tendering can happen.

I thought that the top two or three of officers usually have a licence themselves? It must be expensive to get Masters from shore just for tendering. Is there a single example of tendering gone wrong because the sailor made a huge mistake during a 10 minute sailing? USCG could make an exception for tendering, where the Captain can see what's happening, can give instructions, and has a few more boats available in case the unlicenced crew member manages to hit an ice berg. If felt perfectly safe on the tenders provided by the foreign Maltese and Dutch ships I've been on.

So, you’re eating in the dining room on deck 4 and your cabin is on the opposite end of the ship on deck 12 - you really want to try to get to your cabin? Me, I’m going outside to the lifeboats.

A ship doesn't sink in 10 minutes. And I would want my lifevest, which is in my cabin. And I would like an orderly procedure, which doesn't happen if everyone would make a run to a random lifeboat as if we were to do a replay of the Titanic.

If the ship is sinking, about 1/2 of the "lifeboats" will not be usable....more than likely....so you go to your muster station, and they will tell you where a functioning lifeboat might be. Ships don't just sink in a level line......perhaps one side of the ship is already underwater...can't launch a lifeboat from under water!

Your muster station is where you get info to save your life...not where you will board a lifeboat.

Would you think that cameras that recognize faces would be sufficient to know where everyone is? Such tech is becoming off the shelf technology really fast, and the ships already have a zillion cameras installed.

 

In case of a real alarm, everyone could simply be sent to their cabin where the TV is automatically turned to a channel that explains what's happening and what they should do next. Everyone out of the way of the firefighters, and when needed, the TV would tell people when it's their turn to get to their lifeboat.

 

Even the drills feel a bit chaotic, with passengers confused about where they should be or what's happening at all. Adding 3 AM, people wearing life vests, screaming kids, a few who need a scooter, and general panic, the orderly mustering becomes a nightmare. The simple instruction "go to your room" must be familiar in any language.

And if you and another 300 passengers are in cabins on decks above the fire in the same fire zone, you are in the danger zone (fire moves up), and the ventilation in the entire fire zone is secured, and the fire doors are closed. You then have to get these folks out of the danger zone and to a safe location. If a muster station is in the fire danger zone, then the crew will be directing passengers to the alternative muster station, and again, they are in one location, not hundreds of cabins. While you are mustering, crew are going through all the cabins checking for occupants, and then tagging the cabin as cleared.

I thought that the top two or three of officers usually have a licence themselves? It must be expensive to get Masters from shore just for tendering. Is there a single example of tendering gone wrong because the sailor made a huge mistake during a 10 minute sailing? USCG could make an exception for tendering, where the Captain can see what's happening, can give instructions, and has a few more boats available in case the unlicenced crew member manages to hit an ice berg. If felt perfectly safe on the tenders provided by the foreign Maltese and Dutch ships I've been on.

All of the deck and engine officers are licensed. If you mean a Master's license, there may be two or three onboard, and the Staff Captain is almost universally licensed as a Master. Given the international nature of the maritime world there is no central database of whether there are tender accidents, however, if you google "tender accidents", you quickly get several lawyers advertising for injury cases. How does the USCG make an exception, when the definition of a "passenger vessel" is any vessel that "carries more than 12 paying passengers". If they exempted cruise ship tenders, why would any casino or dinner boat be required to have anything more than a single Captain on the shore someplace, who could "see" the boat and "give directions".

It isn't that expensive to get the Captains for the tenders, they are regular tour boat operators (whale watchers, etc) and do the tenders as a side.

I'm not saying that many foreign flag Third Officers are not competent to drive a small passenger vessel, but again, it is a legal issue, as under US law the license given to junior officers are not considered to be competent to handle a passenger vessel.

If the ship is sinking, about 1/2 of the "lifeboats" will not be usable....more than likely....so you go to your muster station, and they will tell you where a functioning lifeboat might be. Ships don't just sink in a level line......perhaps one side of the ship is already underwater...can't launch a lifeboat from under water!

Your muster station is where you get info to save your life...not where you will board a lifeboat.

I know you won't be back to see this, but stop uttering absolute rubbish. This is for those here on CC that don't know your tendency to spout rubbish. Most ships do not "roll over" or list to the point that boats cannot be launched or "is underwater". Look at the Concordia, the most recent and obvious example, and for over two hours, the list of the vessel was less than 15%, or below the limit for launching lifeboats from either side. The list, and the eventual roll over was caused by the ship grounding a second time on the island of Giglio causing the free surface of the water in the engine room to move to the onshore side that is supported by the sea bottom.

Do you really think that a hundred years after the Titanic, that the international maritime industry would allow a ship to have only half enough lifeboats since "half the boats would not be usable". Go away.

A ship doesn't sink in 10 minutes. And I would want my lifevest, which is in my cabin. And I would like an orderly procedure, which doesn't happen if everyone would make a run to a random lifeboat as if we were to do a replay of the Titanic.

Well, while the cruise line and the IMO stresses knowing how to don a lifejacket, and if you have to enter the water it is what will help save your life, if you are getting into a lifeboat, a lifejacket is useless, and in fact actually makes the boat even more crowded than it will be otherwise. And many ships do not have lifejackets in the cabin anymore, they are at the muster station.

As for panic among the passengers, remember that the muster drill is the only chance the crew, who would be directing the passengers to the muster stations and not to the boats, the drill is the only chance the crew have of actually dealing with hostile passengers. And if you think folks could run to "random lifeboats" and get into them and launch them, get real. Not only would you have no clue how to do it, but there would be multiple levels of crew and officers restraining you from going to the boats.

We were in the water theater for our muster drill on the Harmony. They pointed to stairs that we could not see behind the curtains and told us this would lead us to the lifeboat. I took them at their word and would have showed up there.

https://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/panic-like-on-the-titanic-as-cruise-ship-sinks-off-italian-coast-1.367818

I think it would be similar to how last sinking cruise ship passengers reacted.

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If the ship is sinking, about 1/2 of the "lifeboats" will not be usable....more than likely....so you go to your muster station, and they will tell you where a functioning lifeboat might be. Ships don't just sink in a level line......perhaps one side of the ship is already underwater...can't launch a lifeboat from under water!

Your muster station is where you get info to save your life...not where you will board a lifeboat.

Written as if you've gotten all your knowledge of physics on a bad drama of the Titanic.

I suppose we all hate the muster drill, but on the smaller ships you are where you would want to be in an emergency, standing in lines outside, ready to board a lifeboat if necessary. I know it's not the only meeting point but I cannot imagine in a real emergency being herded into a crowded low deck restaurant where exits from it seem minimal. It's quite claustrophobic in a drill and feels like the last place I would want to go in a real emergency.

Not to worry, no one will force you to book a cruise on any oasis class ship

Would you think that cameras that recognize faces would be sufficient to know where everyone is? Such tech is becoming off the shelf technology really fast, and the ships already have a zillion cameras installed.

 

In case of a real alarm, everyone could simply be sent to their cabin where the TV is automatically turned to a channel that explains what's happening and what they should do next. Everyone out of the way of the firefighters, and when needed, the TV would tell people when it's their turn to get to their lifeboat.

 

Even the drills feel a bit chaotic, with passengers confused about where they should be or what's happening at all. Adding 3 AM, people wearing life vests, screaming kids, a few who need a scooter, and general panic, the orderly mustering becomes a nightmare. The simple instruction "go to your room" must be familiar in any language.

And, let's see, what about those whose cabins are on fire??????

In my opinion, this is information that should be emphasized during the muster drill. Perhaps spending a few minutes explaining just what a call to muster stations is intended to accomplish would be much more informative than the "wash your hands" video. At least, present this before the cute videos.

I agree. We've never had to muster for real (besides the drills of course), and hope we don't ever have to, but I can imagine that a lot of passengers are going to be thinking that the ship is sinking if that muster call ever goes off.

Dan