Flam Railway- HAL selling rail tickets at TWO AND HALF TIMES the price!.

We have booked to sail on HAL on June 11th, andare due to stopover in Flam on June 13th.

Like many visitors, we were looking forward to go on the famous Flam Railway, to experience the ride and enjoy the breath-taking scenery up the hill. The ticket price 490 Norwegian Kroners per person(approx USD 57) for a round trip ride, about an hour each way. Not the cheapest ride for two hours but we thought because of the views, and it would be a train ride “of a life time”, it would be worth it.

We went to the site related to Flam Railways to book the tickets (for two), and were disappointed to find that all the trains were fully booked until after 4pm. If we were to take the train which leaves Flam after 4pm, we may not be able to get back in time for the ship which leaves at 6pm.

We phoned the travel agent and she said she did not sell tickets for Flam Railways but it is not unusual that cruise line companies would buy up most of the tickets so that the could sell to passengers.

We checked with Holland America and indeed, they have tickets for the rail ride. To our horror, we discovered that they were selling the same tickets for USD149.95. Compared to the original price of approx USD57, that would be about two and half times more. That means,for the two of us, instead of paying USD114, we would have to fork out USD299.90 for them.

We realise HAL is a business and the company is there to make a profit, but even so, we still feel somewhat peeved at the HUGE MARK-UP. Probably they knew that capacity on the Flam Railway is limited,and so is our time in Flam. We do not mind that they make a profit at our expense but we still think the mark-up is somewhat excessive and unreasonable, and we feel perhaps they are taking advantage of passengers because of our situation. Would we be right to think they knew we could not take the train the next day because we would have sailed off by then? We realise not everyone would agree with our feelings, but there you are.

We just wondered for other excursions, do excursions via HAL cost a lot more too?

Anyway, as a result, we have to give up the opportunity to take the “rail ride of a lifetime”. Oh well, c’est la vie!

As well as the Flam Railways site, you can also book on the Norwegian Rail website (they have a separate allocation of tickets) You might some available there

https://www.nsb.no/en/?gclid=CMuvnubiitMCFYoy0wodZb8BnQ

*eta* You want Flåm - Myrdal and return

Wow, that's a shocker. I know there's always some markup, but I have never seen a 250% markup. Do you know if there's another ship in port? That really adds to the demand.

There's probably a "contact us" on the railway site. You might try emailing them to see if there's some kind of error, or maybe if the cruise lines give back unsold tickets at some point.

I hate to support such price gouging, but if it's a "rail ride of a lifetime" to you and the HAL ticket is your only option, at least think about it. It is a beautiful ride. I believe it's the steepest adhesion (not cog) railway in the world.

My advice is not to give up. It is a few years ago now but we faced a similar dilemma except that I think they would only sell to groups not individuals. Then closer to our arrival date I found I could purchase individual tickets.

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Does HAL's price include transportation to/from the Railway?

If not, the extra is because of insurance. Still not right though.

I am on the cruise after you, 6/25. I checked the website for Flaam the day we are there, and all the tickets were sold out until around 2:45PM. We were forced to pay the extra to HAL because we really wanted to go.

This is typical for cruise industry. I spoke to a parasailing operator once about whether he ever considered being available to book through cruiseline (in that case RCCL) and he said it would be out of business due to their restrictions as well as requirements for insurance - to cover them from liability not the passenger. Factoring in the cruiseline's cut he said the price would be triple what he charged. The difference in price is not all cruise line profit but depending on how the insurance works out (if they force operator to get insurance through them) it could be if there are no incidents and claims.

Just because they book a block of train seats does not mean they might not get released for walk-up or near term bookings directly. You can take your chances and check on-line from ship for booking after sailing if seats become available.

Also, I believe that the HAL excursion includes lunch, or a substantial snack at the first stop.

Having done this train trip I would like to point out a few things.

1. There are lots of non-cruise tourists in Flam. It is an access point for ferries and for trips into the Fjord. The tickets are purchased in advance by many tour and travel companies, not just cruise ships. This train is also the main connection to the main rail line to Bergen.

2. On the day I was there the cruise ship excursions where in two out of 8 cars of each train. So 75% of the passengers were non-cruise ship excursion.

3. As far as cost. I doubt the excursion sold by Holland America is just round trip tickets to Myrdal. I the trip I took the cruise line passengers got off at Vatnahalsen High Mountain Hotel. Which is a hotel close to the track just before getting to Myrdal. It is the last of the real scenic areas before Myrdal. At the hotel there we basically got a coffee break with snacks. There is time to take a short hike around the area and some great scenery. So to compare prices subtract anything else included in the excursion beyond just the train tickets. The train station is easy walking distance (about 3 minutes) from the dock.

Also, I believe that the HAL excursion includes lunch, or a substantial snack at the first stop.

At the top of the valley (the furthest point that the excursion goes).

Also, I believe that the HAL excursion includes lunch, or a substantial snack at the first stop.

The HAL excursion includes waffles

I am on the cruise after you, 6/25. I checked the website for Flaam the day we are there, and all the tickets were sold out until around 2:45PM. We were forced to pay the extra to HAL because we really wanted to go.

Have you tried checking? https://www.nsb.no/en/?gclid=CMuvnubiitMCFYoy0wodZb8BnQ

As well as the Flam Railways site, you can also book on the Norwegian Rail website (they have a separate allocation of tickets) You might some available there

https://www.nsb.no/en/?gclid=CMuvnubiitMCFYoy0wodZb8BnQ

 

*eta* You want Flåm - Myrdal and return

There are tickets still available through that site for 720 k round trip (About $83.90 per person) on 6/13.

The HAL excursion includes waffles

And very good waffles they were, along with tea and coffee. But probably even more is the stopping point at the hotel with a little time to hike around. Very good scenic viewing point on the other side of the train tracks, just north of the platform at Vatnahalsen.

Does HAL's price include transportation to/from the Railway?

If not, the extra is because of insurance. Still not right though.

The railway station is only 20 meters from the ship port, so one would imagine the transportation to/from the railway would be on foot!

As well as the Flam Railways site, you can also book on the Norwegian Rail website (they have a separate allocation of tickets) You might some available there

https://www.nsb.no/en/?gclid=CMuvnubiitMCFYoy0wodZb8BnQ

 

*eta* You want Flåm - Myrdal and return

Dear debsjc

Thanks so much for your information.

We went to that Norwegian Railway site you recommended and booked the tickets. They were more expensive than the original site, at about 720 Norwegian Krones (approx. USD84 per person), but they are still a lot lower than that charged by HAL.

You know, you are even better than the travel agent. The travel did not seem to know what you know. Sometimes, we feel that experienced cruisers here are more knowledgeable than the travel agents themselves - or at least, some of them.

Thanks again.

Dear debsjc

 

Thanks so much for your information.

 

We went to that Norwegian Railway site you recommended and booked the tickets. They were more expensive than the original site, at about 720 Norwegian Krones (approx. USD84 per person), but they are still a lot lower than that charged by HAL.

 

You know, you are even better than the travel agent. The travel did not seem to know what you know. Sometimes, we feel that experienced cruisers here are more knowledgeable than the travel agents themselves - or at least, some of them.

 

Thanks again.

You are very welcome. I found out about that site by emailing the local Flam tourist office, when I found the tickets has all sold out on the normal website. Glad it worked out for you.

Anyone else experiencing this should check their roll call to see if anyone has a block of tickets to sell. Group sales are easier to do than individual tickets. I think the minimum sized group is 11. Someone on our cruise volunteered to be the point person and she made a group reservation. The size of the group grew and grew and we had 25 participating. We all met up onboard to give her cash to purchase the tickets. At the Flam terminal there got is a special ticket line for those with group reservations to actually buy them. The railway assigns each group to a specific car, coming and going.

You only need an hour or so in Myrdal, there isn't much to see, eat a waffle. It is a nice ride but IMO not the train ride of a lifetime.

There are other things to do in Flam including boat trips and a tram ride.

Leftover train tickets are sold the day of but you must get there ASAP.

Not sure why anyone would be surprised that HAL (or any cruise line) would mark-up a tour by 250%! We have posted (for years) our observations that many cruise excursions are terribly overpriced. And we have noticed that more and more experienced cruisers/travelers now avoid cruise line excursions in favor of arranging private tours or simply doing their own thing.

We think part of the problem (with excursion pricing) is that most cruise lines (including HAL) no longer handle their own excursion office. They are run by a third-party contractor who staffs the tour desk, provides the tour/shopping lecturers (they get paid to recommend various shops), and handles the contracting with local tour providers. So consider that the local tour provider needs to make their profit, the contractor needs to make their profit, and the cruise line also gets a cut (from the contractor). So the contractor has to mark-up a tour price to generate revenue not just for themselves, but also for the cruise line. In many cases the contracts (with the local providers) prohibit them from taking direct bookings from known cruisers (so they are not competing with the cruise line).

Cruise lines are now content to hire contractors to handle many passenger services. Not only do they do this for tours, but you get it with the ships photo shop/photographers, art auctions, spas, hair salons, shops, passenger onboard computer services/classes (not sure if HAL is still contracting this out), etc. Some lines even contract their entire food service operation (which can even include waiters) to companies like Apollo Global Catering. A friend once joked that about the only cruise line employees are in the Marine Department (this is an exaggeration).

And the relationships between the cruise industry and certain shore-based stores are really interesting. Try finding a Diamonds International/Tanzanite International in a non-cruise port.

Hank

Not sure why anyone would be surprised that HAL (or any cruise line) would mark-up a tour by 250%! We have posted (for years) our observations that many cruise excursions are terribly overpriced. And we have noticed that more and more experienced cruisers/travelers now avoid cruise line excursions in favor of arranging private tours or simply doing their own thing.

 

We think part of the problem (with excursion pricing) is that most cruise lines (including HAL) no longer handle their own excursion office. They are run by a third-party contractor who staffs the tour desk, provides the tour/shopping lecturers (they get paid to recommend various shops), and handles the contracting with local tour providers. So consider that the local tour provider needs to make their profit, the contractor needs to make their profit, and the cruise line also gets a cut (from the contractor). So the contractor has to mark-up a tour price to generate revenue not just for themselves, but also for the cruise line. In many cases the contracts (with the local providers) prohibit them from taking direct bookings from known cruisers (so they are not competing with the cruise line).

 

Cruise lines are now content to hire contractors to handle many passenger services. Not only do they do this for tours, but you get it with the ships photo shop/photographers, art auctions, spas, hair salons, shops, passenger onboard computer services/classes (not sure if HAL is still contracting this out), etc. Some lines even contract their entire food service operation (which can even include waiters) to companies like Apollo Global Catering. A friend once joked that about the only cruise line employees are in the Marine Department (this is an exaggeration).

 

And the relationships between the cruise industry and certain shore-based stores are really interesting. Try finding a Diamonds International/Tanzanite International in a non-cruise port.

 

Hank

I am so tired of "recommended shopping," which lists the same stores in every port in the Caribbean. When I walk around a port, I look for small, local shops and rarely go in the shops that the ship's "expert" recommends.

I haven't found huge mark-ups when I've been able to compare the ship's tours to comparable independent tours. In some places, it's difficult to replicate a ship's tour because when you go to tour operators' websites, they make you book through the cruise line.

And Holland takes the whole train.

We had a similar experience with RCI in NZ. . RCI $229 USD. Purchase at the tourist authority $89 USD.

Difference: A box lunch on the train with either a beer or a a 187ml bottle of wine. The people who took the RCI excursion were very unhappy about it. Especially when they saw the inexpensive bbq that the local Rotary club put on at one end of the trip and the pub across the street.

Well done you for getting around the rip off!

We had a similar experience with RCI in NZ. . RCI $229 USD. Purchase at the tourist authority $89 USD.

 

Difference: A box lunch on the train with either a beer or a a 187ml bottle of wine. The people who took the RCI excursion were very unhappy about it. Especially when they saw the inexpensive bbq that the local Rotary club put on at one end of the trip and the pub across the street.

 

Well done you for getting around the rip off!

If we're going to do a tour, we generally do the ship's tour. One thing I try very hard to avoid is included meals. It always runs the price up more than the food is worth, and we prefer to spend our time sightseeing. A quick coffee or local beer if we can find it and maybe a snack is enough. Or, if we've had a large breakfast, skip lunch completely. A box lunch on the train is definitely not worth it. I can't juggle that and my camera at the same time.

I'm not sure what the exact arrangement is between HAL and Hop-On Hop-Off bus in Halifax, but last summer you could only buy your tickets through HAL - both on AND off the ship.I don't remember the exact price but it was exorbitant. At least double what we paid for the bus in Montreal. We declined and began to walk along the very nicely developed path along the water. After a few blocks we found the Halifax tourist center (near the planetarium?) and asked about the bus. The representative said that yes, you could only buy the tickets through HAL but if we only wanted to go to one or two places, it would be infinitely cheaper for the two of us to take a cab from place to place if we didn't want to walk (especially uphill to the Citadel). He even called a cab for us and 15 minutes later we were right at the gate to the Citadel. We took the cab's number if we wanted to continue on to another site. Instead, we chose to walk DOWN the hill back to the pier area but we could have easily called the cab to pick us up. We don't use UBER so I'm not sure its available but that would be another choice.

The only time I'm leery about DIY or a private excursion is when the ship is leaving the area and it would be difficult to catch up to the ship. Then, I'd like to be back to the ship on time. Otherwise, it pays to ask some questions.

I'm not sure what the exact arrangement is between HAL and Hop-On Hop-Off bus in Halifax, but last summer you could only buy your tickets through HAL - both on AND off the ship.I don't remember the exact price but it was exorbitant. ...

You can buy the bus tickets from the uptown office - near the Maritime Museum the last time I was there but you have to make your way there from the pier - about a 15-minute walk. We visit Halifax every year, most often by train and occasionally on a ship, and we and our friends have been able to take the Hop-on-hop-off bus as long as we don't want to start at the pier. I am surprised you were told you could only buy through HAL (and presumably people cruising with other lines would be told something similar) when there are thousands of tourists in Halifax who do not arrive by ship.

Yes, the cost is steep, but we noticed last year the fee that Cunard was charging was very little more than buying direct from the Big Pink Bus line. I don't know if the HAL charge is more, but it may be. A few years ago we were on a Norway cruise on Cunard at the same time our friends were on HAL. Although we did not take the Flamsbana excursion the same day, our friends paid HAL 50% more than we paid to Cunard.