Final payment to be set at 120 days in near future

Ridiculous, really. And they get to earn money on your money for 30 more days... without doing anything. Why should I have to give NCL a float at all? Why shouldn't I just pay when I get the service.

Other than that whole "land" part.

Speak for yourself. I'm in Australia right now overlooking my private pool which boarders on four mile beach and next year I'll be in a villa on a Greek Island. NCL can stuff their 120 day policy.

Ridiculous, really. And they get to earn money on your money for 30 more days... without doing anything. Why should I have to give NCL a float at all? Why shouldn't I just pay when I get the service.

You don't have too. Vote with your feet. If enough people do the same, they change it back.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah, this is going to be like airlines eventually, full payment at booking. Royal Caribbean has already moved to a non-refundable deposit model.

But at least airlines have change fees.

Just don't book your cruise until 75 days before sail date. End of problem....:cool:

My 2 cruises booked out of U.K. Are both 60 days prior to departure for final payment

Allowing free cancellation can mean cabins being booked early, then dumped before final payment, but were not available to other cruisers in the meantime who might have wanted them. From this side of the pond I've always thought it an unusual arrangement to be allowed to book and then change your mind up till 90 days before. It's not somethng we can generally do for UK bookings. A non-refundable substantial deposit would probably mean better deals for early commitment and possibly overall cheaper prices if NCL knows it has locked in bookings. For those not happy they can book within 90 days and take whatever is available, my TA usuaslly has good deals for late bookings.

I've never come across insurances that will pay out if you cancel because you've changed your mind, or for a work commitment, only where there is some major event such as illness or death of the insured or close relative. Perhaps this is something available in the US, but I would have thought the premium would be very high as there would most likely be many payouts requested.

This is even more reason not to bother booking at all before final payment, and just wait for bargains to show up closer to sail date. The only exception comes for popular or rare cruises which are likely to fill up.

As usual you make a lot of good points but this is the best one.

I laughed aloud at the official NCL response that booking early would give people 'optimal pricing'.

We're doing the Panama Canal to S. America next month but I think that'll be the last of our 'unusual' cruises on NCL.

Going forward, I expect we'll just look for airline seat sales 30-60 days out and book 'whatever's left' on NCL, hoping to snag a discount.

I've never come across insurances that will pay out if you cancel because you've changed your mind, or for a work commitment, only where there is some major event such as illness or death of the insured or close relative. Perhaps this is something available in the US, but I would have thought the premium would be very high as there would most likely be many payouts requested.

In the US (at least), there is a policy type available from a number of insurers that is "cancel for any reason", so you may see it mentioned around here. It would be more expensive than the "standard" insurance. The NCL policy that many purchase because it's easy is not cancel for any reason.

I think eventually, it's going to be like the airlines where you pay upfront and change penalty if you want the cheapest price.

Paying at 90 or 120 days means almost nothing financially. If you are stretched so far that you can not pay, maybe cruising is not the best use of your resources. The argument of giving them another 30 days "float" is rather weak. (less than $10)

The biggest reason I do not like this is less flexibility if we want to change our plans. At the same time, I understand they want to lock in those cabins. Makes good business sense.

Some other cruiselines have tighter policies. Viking for example wants full payment when you book.

Paying at 90 or 120 days means almost nothing financially. If you are stretched so far that you can not pay, maybe cruising is not the best use of your resources. The argument of giving them another 30 days "float" is rather weak. (less than $10)

 

The biggest reason I do not like this is less flexibility if we want to change our plans. At the same time, I understand they want to lock in those cabins. Makes good business sense.

 

Some other cruiselines have tighter policies. Viking for example wants full payment when you book.

Not to be abrupt but in the aggregate 30 days extra is a lot of money for NCL. Do you pay for your house 4 months before receiving it? Of course for the individual customer, I agree flexability is the most significant issue.

You don't have too. Vote with your feet. If enough people do the same, they change it back.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Definitely. We will probably switch to just purchasing last minute. Not much price difference that I have noticed on NCL anyway.

This hardly makes any difference to us in Australia. Sure, the cruise line will give their 100% refund, but the travel agent as well as the wholesaler institute a penalty if you cancel at any time after the first 24 hours. Around $500. Over here we only book when we are serious about going. And take out travel insurance immediately if not paying by credit card with insurance cover so you will get that cancellation fee back if you can't travel.

Now that DH and I are both retired, we intend go book more "last minute" cruises anyway.

meh. no big deal, really. i dont book a cruise and hope to have the money to pay for it by the time payment date comes around. i wish they would offer a choice to pay in full at time of booking, non-refundable fares, that are cheaper the way hotels do for rooms.

While we cannot be certain, I don't believe this is about cash flow or collecting an extra month's interest on your payment. It's possible, but I don't think so.

I believe this is yet another assault on "value cruisers".

The average cruiser books way in advance, pays higher prices, and makes his final payment when the day comes. This average cruiser is mostly unaware that he is paying higher prices than the "value cruisers" who book after final payment date, and even if they are aware, they make excuses to themselves why their booking method was superior ("I got a better selection of cabins!")

The average cruiser also spends more money onboard. They go to the spa. They gamble in the casino. They buy ship-sold shore excursions. They buy photography, artwork, and jewelry.

The value cruiser is very fare conscious. They are aware that, aside from popular/unusual cruises, the best deals are found awhile after final payment date. They do their own excursions. They don't waste money onboard.

Frank Del Rio has been changing policies to become hostile to value cruisers ever since he took over. That's what the water policy is about. That's what the ill-fated "you can't bring food back to your room" policy was about. That's what the "standard 5 free perks" promotion was about, replacing the wildly inconsistent promotions of the past which highly varied in value.

And that's likely what this 120-day cancellation policy is about, which if you remember, already changed once fairly recently from 75 to 90 days.

Let me explain why making a sooner final payment date greatly benefits the cruise line and harms the value cruiser.

Cruise lines cannot appreciably lower fares until final payment date hits. Why? Because, prior to final payment date, you can cancel with zero penalty and rebook for the lower rate. In fact, NCL is so aware that this can be (and is) done that they will simply re-rate your cruise prior to final payment date if you call them and bring a lower price to their attention. Therefore, even if a cruise is selling unexpectedly poorly, they cannot drop the price very much prior to final payment, or they will be faced with a stampede of phone calls asking to be re-rated, and it will cost the cruise line a fortune.

So what happens if a cruise is selling poorly? NCL has to tough it out, perhaps slightly lowering the fare, but having to hold off on the real discounts until after final payment date.

Then, once final payment date hits (and people can't re-rate it or cancel without penalty anymore), they can drop the price. However, NCL is also aware that value cruisers are lurking in the background, and will pounce on any huge drop in fare. Instead, NCL is forced to play a game of chicken with them, slowly lowering the price, hoping that will spur enough sales to get back to expectation, and avoid the otherwise inevitable room-dumping (for bargain prices) near the end. If this fails, and there is still way too much inventory when the cruise date starts getting close, they finally cry uncle and dump the remaining rooms at extremely cheap prices.

So what does an extra month of earlier payment accompllish?

NCL now has more time to adjust prices down, and more time for potential cruisers to see the moderately lowered prices (after final payment), and hopefully purchase enough cruises at those prices in order to avoid the dumping.

Here, let me give you an example:

Alan is your average cruiser who pays in advance and doesn't value cruise. He sees $1049 per person for a balcony stateroom, thinks it's reasonable, and books for him and his wife a year in advance. To him, it matters little whether his final payment is due 90 or 120 days beforehand, so he barely notices this change.

Betty is a semi-value cruiser. She recognizes that $1049 per person for a balcony is a crappy deal, and tells her husband that she thinks they should wait and see if the price drops, otherwise they won't go. Final payment date comes, and it's still $999. Not good enough. However, two months later, after the fare slowly decrease to $949, $899, and $849, Betty notices it's gone down to $799. That's good enough, and Betty books. She isn't looking for an extreme bargain, and it's getting too close (2 months away) to cruise time for Betty to want to wait further.

Charlie is a full value cruiser. He cruises by himself, and looks for extreme bargains. Prior to the 120-day final payment date, he knew that NCL didn't have time in many cases to find enough Bettys to fill up rooms at moderately discounted prices after final payment date. He would just wait until the inevitable dump pricing on certain sailings, and would snag a $549 balcony room just for himself, without even having to pay the single supplement fee. Now that the policy has changed, NCL finds enough Bettys to pay $799, and the price never falls to $549. In fact, they also don't get desperate enough to waive the single supplement. Charlie can't get on the ship for less than $1600 plus tax. "No thanks," thinks Charlie. "I'll go value cruise on another line instead."

meh. no big deal, really. i dont book a cruise and hope to have the money to pay for it by the time payment date comes around. i wish they would offer a choice to pay in full at time of booking, non-refundable fares, that are cheaper the way hotels do for rooms.

Please read my other post above.

This isn't about people who can't afford to pay at the time of booking. I can easily afford it, but I wait to book until well after final payment (unless I have a casino certificate) because it's usually a lot cheaper for the exact same room.

Are you aware of the fact that booking in advance and paying at final payment means you probably got a bad deal?

Because aside from popular-date (i.e. Christmas) or unusual (i.e. Panama Canal) itineraries, you are getting a bad deal if you're booking prior to final payment date.

(This doesn't apply to suites, as they don't like discounting those.)

While we cannot be certain, I don't believe this is about cash flow or collecting an extra month's interest on your payment. It's possible, but I don't think so....

I would agree with this big time. They want to lock in future cruisers as soon as possible, and have more time to move unsold cabins, or be full in the first place.

Makes no difference to me........but it is another example of NCL doing something that doesn't benefit me in the least. :(

As usual you make a lot of good points but this is the best one.

I laughed aloud at the official NCL response that booking early would give people 'optimal pricing'.

 

We're doing the Panama Canal to S. America next month but I think that'll be the last of our 'unusual' cruises on NCL.

Going forward, I expect we'll just look for airline seat sales 30-60 days out and book 'whatever's left' on NCL, hoping to snag a discount.

Yeah, their wording at the end is lame and typical marketing speak.

...Are you aware of the fact that booking in advance and paying at final payment means you probably got a bad deal?

 

Because aside from popular-date (i.e. Christmas) or unusual (i.e. Panama Canal) itineraries, you are getting a bad deal if you're booking prior to final payment date....

I agree with this line of thought, I now rarely book before final payment. Sometimes I will just to snag a special cabin someone has been holding on to then releases it just days before final payment. So this change really won't affect me too much, it's the people who have to plan their vacation many months in advance that NCL will benefit from. Perhaps it will be beneficial for us as now the post final payment window in 30 days longer, possibly giving us more time to snag a better deal. I will be interested in where the 50% loss date is set. It will also help that now I could book at day 90/100 and still have the same chances to book specialty dining, shows and spa passes as those who booked a year in advance.

Oh, you need to fix the links in your signature. CC went to https

I think that's unfair. I am an advocate for the consumer side of cruising. I post accurate news often, and I'm willing to have a level headed discussion with anyone based on facts and sound business principles. This is a discussion forum and people should be encouraged to question changes and look at things from multiple points of view.

While we cannot be certain, I don't believe this is about cash flow or collecting an extra month's interest on your payment. It's possible, but I don't think so.

 

I believe this is yet another assault on "value cruisers".

 

The average cruiser books way in advance, pays higher prices, and makes his final payment when the day comes. This average cruiser is mostly unaware that he is paying higher prices than the "value cruisers" who book after final payment date, and even if they are aware, they make excuses to themselves why their booking method was superior ("I got a better selection of cabins!")

 

The average cruiser also spends more money onboard. They go to the spa. They gamble in the casino. They buy ship-sold shore excursions. They buy photography, artwork, and jewelry.

 

The value cruiser is very fare conscious. They are aware that, aside from popular/unusual cruises, the best deals are found awhile after final payment date. They do their own excursions. They don't waste money onboard.

 

Frank Del Rio has been changing policies to become hostile to value cruisers ever since he took over. That's what the water policy is about. That's what the ill-fated "you can't bring food back to your room" policy was about. That's what the "standard 5 free perks" promotion was about, replacing the wildly inconsistent promotions of the past which highly varied in value.

 

And that's likely what this 120-day cancellation policy is about, which if you remember, already changed once fairly recently from 75 to 90 days.

 

Let me explain why making a sooner final payment date greatly benefits the cruise line and harms the value cruiser.

 

Cruise lines cannot appreciably lower fares until final payment date hits. Why? Because, prior to final payment date, you can cancel with zero penalty and rebook for the lower rate. In fact, NCL is so aware that this can be (and is) done that they will simply re-rate your cruise prior to final payment date if you call them and bring a lower price to their attention. Therefore, even if a cruise is selling unexpectedly poorly, they cannot drop the price very much prior to final payment, or they will be faced with a stampede of phone calls asking to be re-rated, and it will cost the cruise line a fortune.

 

So what happens if a cruise is selling poorly? NCL has to tough it out, perhaps slightly lowering the fare, but having to hold off on the real discounts until after final payment date.

 

Then, once final payment date hits (and people can't re-rate it or cancel without penalty anymore), they can drop the price. However, NCL is also aware that value cruisers are lurking in the background, and will pounce on any huge drop in fare. Instead, NCL is forced to play a game of chicken with them, slowly lowering the price, hoping that will spur enough sales to get back to expectation, and avoid the otherwise inevitable room-dumping (for bargain prices) near the end. If this fails, and there is still way too much inventory when the cruise date starts getting close, they finally cry uncle and dump the remaining rooms at extremely cheap prices.

 

So what does an extra month of earlier payment accompllish?

 

NCL now has more time to adjust prices down, and more time for potential cruisers to see the moderately lowered prices (after final payment), and hopefully purchase enough cruises at those prices in order to avoid the dumping.

 

Here, let me give you an example:

 

Alan is your average cruiser who pays in advance and doesn't value cruise. He sees $1049 per person for a balcony stateroom, thinks it's reasonable, and books for him and his wife a year in advance. To him, it matters little whether his final payment is due 90 or 120 days beforehand, so he barely notices this change.

 

Betty is a semi-value cruiser. She recognizes that $1049 per person for a balcony is a crappy deal, and tells her husband that she thinks they should wait and see if the price drops, otherwise they won't go. Final payment date comes, and it's still $999. Not good enough. However, two months later, after the fare slowly decrease to $949, $899, and $849, Betty notices it's gone down to $799. That's good enough, and Betty books. She isn't looking for an extreme bargain, and it's getting too close (2 months away) to cruise time for Betty to want to wait further.

 

Charlie is a full value cruiser. He cruises by himself, and looks for extreme bargains. Prior to the 120-day final payment date, he knew that NCL didn't have time in many cases to find enough Bettys to fill up rooms at moderately discounted prices after final payment date. He would just wait until the inevitable dump pricing on certain sailings, and would snag a $549 balcony room just for himself, without even having to pay the single supplement fee. Now that the policy has changed, NCL finds enough Bettys to pay $799, and the price never falls to $549. In fact, they also don't get desperate enough to waive the single supplement. Charlie can't get on the ship for less than $1600 plus tax. "No thanks," thinks Charlie. "I'll go value cruise on another line instead."

Very nice explanation. Over time I have been an Alan and Betty; fairly split (some planned ahead of time, others planned 60-90 days out). For bigger family trips; Alan. For quick getaways, I'm a Betty. I have so much more time off than my wife that next year I'm exploring options to become a Charlie once in a while as well. I'm watching which weeks this year are cheapest on many lines, or have no solo supplement, and just going to block out that time next year and wait until a few weeks out for a solo deal. Worst case scenario in trying to be Charlier, I don't cruise at all and spend my time and money elsewhere.

You put into words very well something I had a basic thought of but could not annunciate so clearly.

Excellent post PokerPro. Nailed it.

While I don't mind paying for my vacation up front, I do find the timing weird, considering the new travel insurance NCL is now offering for those that have made their final payment. Also it seems like the change in policy was possibly due to the hurricanes that affected carribean ports that resulted in cruise cancellations. I love the norwegian brand and the convenience of traveling by cruise, but this change in their policy will definitely make me reevaluate if I'll keep traveling with them or not.

http://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Moves-Final-Payment-Deadline

Sent from my SM-G955U using Forums mobile app