Jump to content

Break up flight with overnight


eandj
 Share

Recommended Posts

We are looking at S. America for next Jan. Flying into Santiago. (San Antonio port)

DH cannot stand flights over 8 hours. He'd like to break up the flight time with an overnight. But Where? Friends recently flew to Miami for a couple days to visit family (on American) and then headed non stop to Santiago. Is that the easiest? Just starting to hunt options.

 

Since we disembark in Buenos Aires, where we likely will spend an added couple nights, is it difficult to get back to Santiago for a round trip? Or just plan the multiple airport option. We usually save by flying in and out the same airport.

 

Again, haven't done research yet. But if someone has flown from ORD, your info would be helpful as a start. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing- you don’t save by flying into and out of the same city. It usually costs just about the same or similar if you fly into one city and home from another. I realize there are rules about open jaw and mileage and all that, but this is just a general rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This post may be a bit long and complicated, but it will spell out what's involved with "stopovers" and "connections" and how you can use this to your advantage. So bear with me and ask questions if I'm not clear.

 

I am going to just use international trips for this example, since that's what the OP is interested in. The rule for international change of flights is that if the connection time is EITHER: a) 24 hours or less, or b) the first available flight onward, whichever is the LONGER, then it is considered a "connection" and there is no "break" in the fare construction. If the connection time is longer than that allowed about, this is considered a "stopover" and there is a "break" in the fare construction.

 

Time for example using Miami as a midpoint to fictional XYZ. You arrive in MIA at 4pm and the onward flight to XYZ is at 6pm. If you do that the same day, the time interval is 2hr, so it is a connection. You have a through fare from your origin to SCL. If you do that the next day, the time interval is 26 hours, so you have a stopover. Most fares do not allow for free stopovers, so you will either be paying a stopover charge (if the fare rules allow that) or you will be paying for two fares - from your origin to MIA and from MIA to SCL. Costs more than the through fare in almost all cases.

 

Now, how can you use this rule to your advantage. Now, you arrive in MIA at 6:05pm. If you stay overnight and take the 6pm flight the next day, your interval time is 23:55. Under the 24 rule. So you have a through fare but you still get to spend the night in MIA along the way. The trick is in the timing - you, in effect, have to arrive after your next flight leaves, thus giving you the time along the way for a rest stop.

 

The difficulty here is that airline computer systems are set up to ordinarily give you these types of connections - they try to send you on your way the same day if at all possible. So you need to research schedules and construct your own itinerary - then plug those specfic flights into multi-city searches.

 

The good news is that there are limited flights from the USA to SCL, so the job is not that overwhelming. The bad news - even the shortest flights from the USA, from MIA, are over 8 hours in duration (MIA being 8:20).

 

Now is time to look at connection options further south. Mexico City is roughly the same as MIA, so no big advantage there, other than there being decent hotels in the airport itself. Panama City (PTY) is a hub for Copa, so if you don't mind 737s for these flights, it might be an option. Bogota (BOG) might be an option if you can find appropriate fares on Avianca.

 

Personally, I'd just try to work it through MIA. The AA codeshare operated by LATAM leaves about 9pm - if you can find an arriving flight from your origin that gets in after that, you have the free connection to stay overnight. If you don't mind a longer flight from the USA, AA through DFW leaves around 8:30pm, so you have an easier shot of finding an arrival into DFW that works.

 

Before going further, you need to prioritize your wishes. Where do shorter duration flights, fare construction and fare costs fit into your priorities?

 

The 24 hour rule for international connections can be a real winner if you plan it correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for the breakdown, Flyer Talker. I knew you'd be able to help with this planning. You are right that DH will need to prioritize the time, cost and convenience.

Looks like this will take some serious planning time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the USA, MIA or DFW are probably your best overnight cities but if you really wanted to reduce the time spent on each flight the most efficient routing in terms of distance probably would be through Panama City on Copa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for the breakdown, Flyer Talker. I knew you'd be able to help with this planning. You are right that DH will need to prioritize the time, cost and convenience.

Looks like this will take some serious planning time.

 

Feel free to come back to bounce off ideas.

 

Looking for the first week of January (only Jan dates currently available), you could take AA1221 from ORD leaving at 16:40 and arriving MIA at 20:47. Then fly out the next day on AA225 at 19:55, arriving SCL at 06:21.

 

Another thought is to take AA or UA to MIA on one ticket, then buy a separate ticket on Avianca through Bogota. They are showing the lowest price from MIA to SCL - the combo of an ORD-MIA ticket plus the Avianca ticket might be less than the AA through fare. Plus, you then wouldn't need to worry about the 24 hour rule and could spend as much or as little time in MIA as you wished.

 

Play around with ITA Matrix to see what's available on different carriers - lots of options to break up the time aboard an aircraft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flyertalker,

 

If it’s less than 24hrs but an overnight stop, so considered a connection, can you request to collect your hold luggage at the first stop e.g. you land at 6.05pm at the first airport and don’t fly out until 2.30pm the following afternoon? Just want to ensure the airline doesn’t insist putting the final destination on the luggage labels when you initially check-in on the outbound journey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it’s less than 24hrs but an overnight stop, so considered a connection, can you request to collect your hold luggage at the first stop e.g. you land at 6.05pm at the first airport and don’t fly out until 2.30pm the following afternoon? Just want to ensure the airline doesn’t insist putting the final destination on the luggage labels when you initially check-in on the outbound journey.

 

We had this same situation just a couple of months ago. First flight landed at 6pm with an onward flight at 11.30am the next morning. I checked with the airline (in this case it was TAP, connecting in Lisbon) and they said that for less than 24 hours the luggage would be checked through to our final destination and they would store it overnight but that if we wanted to collect in Lisbon and re-check it the next morning all we had to do was tell the check-in agent.

 

At check-in for the first flight I asked the agent if the bags would be checked straight through and she said yes but if you want to collect them in Lisbon that's not a problem.

 

I don't know if that's normal practice though or if it depends from airline to airline.

 

As it happened we didn't want the hassle of collecting them, taking them to the hotel and re-checking them the next morning, so we had packed overnight stuff in our carry-ons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flyertalker,

 

If it’s less than 24hrs but an overnight stop, so considered a connection, can you request to collect your hold luggage at the first stop e.g. you land at 6.05pm at the first airport and don’t fly out until 2.30pm the following afternoon? Just want to ensure the airline doesn’t insist putting the final destination on the luggage labels when you initially check-in on the outbound journey.

 

Completely depends on the airlines and airports involved. Most USA airports will not keep luggage for an overnight connection. Many foreign ones will. Some airlines will refuse, but often airlines with hub operations at the connection point have the corporate infrastructure for such connects. I know that Singapore and Cathay will hold overnight.

 

OTOH, some airlines that will hold overnight may not allow you to "short check" luggage. Again, all part of the specifics of your itinerary.

 

If they force you to through check the bags, you can always have fresh clothes and toiletries in your carryon bag. And for the ladies with their makeup, a tip I picked up long ago. Contact lens cases can hold small amounts of makeup and easily fit into your Kippie bag for security. In fact, I know some ladies that keep some "touch-up" supplies in their purse in this manner.

 

 

So, to give you the simple rule -- there is no simple rule. All part of the fun of working these little tricks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve been looking at a split up strategy for our flights next year, since we’ll be short frequent flyers for true business class both ways. For us, Jet Blue to Lima (with a couple night stay) and Sky Airline to Santiago might also work for one way. Also looking at the Avianca and Copa for both flights, which our miles will cover business class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve been looking at a split up strategy for our flights next year, since we’ll be short frequent flyers for true business class both ways. For us, Jet Blue to Lima (with a couple night stay) and Sky Airline to Santiago might also work for one way. Also looking at the Avianca and Copa for both flights, which our miles will cover business class.

 

Three things to remember: First, if you stay longer than 24 hours or the next flight out, you won't get through pricing unless the fare rules specifically allow a stopover. Second, know that Copa business class is more like USA domestic first on a 737. Third, Sky Airlines operates on a LCC model, and has no business class - the closest is the bulkhead or exit row on their A319/A320.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three things to remember: First, if you stay longer than 24 hours or the next flight out, you won't get through pricing unless the fare rules specifically allow a stopover. Second, know that Copa business class is more like USA domestic first on a 737. Third, Sky Airlines operates on a LCC model, and has no business class - the closest is the bulkhead or exit row on their A319/A320.

 

Yes I am aware of all those issues. That is why I was thinking of breaking up the way down and stopping in Lima for a few nights (to help mitigate risk, since the two flights would be separate). We do have enough miles for Copa or Avianca both ways and do realize that it would be like domestic first (but the flights are shorter, so doable). If we add Lima using Jet Blue, the Sky flight is not horridly long, also. We used some LCC's for short flights last year in SE Asia and managed by buying up the product offerings.

 

All this will depend on what pops up with frequent flyer saver fares business class each way. I did see some low mile business class tickets offered from time to time on UA (UA metal) from Buenos Aires. But, they are rare. Copa or Avianca on low miles through the UA website seem to be widely available, if one is flexible on days. AA low mile flights for business (I'm willing to buy some miles if I can find saver flights) are almost non-existent. I've read that LAN business saver fares are tough to find also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might as well give out a couple FF tips on miles to primary South America cruise ports (SCL and EZE):

 

If using SkyTeam points, consider routing through Mexico City on AeroMexico or using Aerolineas through Buenos Aires. AeroMexico is a real gem, as you can route to South America and to Europe via MEX. (And they have a flight from Tijuana to Tokyo that has great availability across the Pacific.) Another option is if you find availability to get yourself to Brazil, see if an agent can manually find you a connection on GOL to EZE or SCL.

 

If using Star Alliance points, both Copa and Avianca are alternatives heading south. Copa often has better availability than UA, but you will be on 737s. Avianca is a wild card and unpredictable availability. Going "backwards" to use Air Canada is also an option.

 

If using OneWorld points, good luck. Both AA and LATAM are stingy with seat availability. TAM used to be good when with Star, but post-merger you lose that.

 

There used to be a great "trick" that even agents weren't aware of for SkyTeam to Brazil -- Korean used to run a three times a week flight from LAX to Sao Paulo that was almost always available for points redemptions. Unfortunately, that flight has been removed from the schedule - apparently not enough people thought about taking Korean from LAX to Brazil!!

 

Biggest suggestion is to be flexible and patient. Also, take itineraries that get you "part way there"....if you can get seats to EZE and you want to be in SCL, grab it and see what you can do from there. If need be, buy another ticket and spend a few days along the way in a new city. Same with Brazil as an intermediary.

 

Also, many of these won't show up if you just search on the airline website (UA/AA/DL). You may need to subscribe to ExpertFlyer and/or KVS to do your searches. Consider that cost as an investment in finding seats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions Flyertalk. I think I will look into an Expertflyer subscription. $100 for a year might be a good investment and it would be an entertaining site to play with.

 

We booked our 2019 cruise about a year ago, so I've been looking at the possible ways to get there (comfortably) for almost a year now (and trying to fill the most likely mileage accounts). The idea for the JetBlue and Sky came about because neither airline hammers one way purchased ticket prices...but that assumes I luck out finding one way UA metal business class saver mile tickets in the other direction. Another possibility is throwing in the towel and just purchasing AA PE and saving the miles for another day.

 

I probably should have looked at booking two FF business class to Mexico City with my DL miles and purchased flights from there - but it's a moot point now - we just used my DL stash for another trip. :)

 

One thing that has become clear over the past year...South America is much more difficult than Asia to find cheap business class flights. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to break up the long flights if we have to go economy to South America.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions Flyertalk. I think I will look into an Expertflyer subscription. $100 for a year might be a good investment and it would be an entertaining site to play with.

 

We booked our 2019 cruise about a year ago, so I've been looking at the possible ways to get there (comfortably) for almost a year now (and trying to fill the most likely mileage accounts). The idea for the JetBlue and Sky came about because neither airline hammers one way purchased ticket prices...but that assumes I luck out finding one way UA metal business class saver mile tickets in the other direction. Another possibility is throwing in the towel and just purchasing AA PE and saving the miles for another day.

 

I probably should have looked at booking two FF business class to Mexico City with my DL miles and purchased flights from there - but it's a moot point now - we just used my DL stash for another trip. :)

 

One thing that has become clear over the past year...South America is much more difficult than Asia to find cheap business class flights. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to break up the long flights if we have to go economy to South America.

You've probably already checked this, but I glanced at business class fares (for December '18) to SCL originating in Windsor (YQG) or Toronto (YYZ) instead of DTW, and the prices were uniformly several hundred dollars - up to $1000 - cheaper. Just a thought.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've probably already checked this, but I glanced at business class fares (for December '18) to SCL originating in Windsor (YQG) or Toronto (YYZ) instead of DTW, and the prices were uniformly several hundred dollars - up to $1000 - cheaper. Just a thought.

 

Thanks for reminding me, I'll keep on eye on that one. I did do some test runs from both those airports at one point last year, but somehow it's fallen off the radar. We might be able to use miles on one ticket and buy another if the price is right. I used to fly out of YQG to YYZ a couple times a month back many years ago ...it's a nice simple little airport. We'd have to find a driver with a passport for airport pick up and drop off...trip will be too long to leave the car parked outside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions Flyertalk. I think I will look into an Expertflyer subscription. $100 for a year might be a good investment and it would be an entertaining site to play with.

 

Highly suggest that you research both EF and KVS. They each have their strong points and both have areas where they come up lacking. The two together is the best combo if the cost is acceptable, with some good overlap and also coverage where the other is weak. Neither is perfect and even the two together don't cover everything. My personal experience is that I have scoped out more seat availability with KVS than with EF over the years, but YMMV.

 

Both will tell you what they can research - see which has the coverage that fits YOUR travel needs best. I just don't want you to jump on EF without doing the comparison research. (And FWIW, KVS has multiple levels, so see which of them might have what you need).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks ...just looked at KVS, It might be beyond my Tech abilities, but if I get familiar with EF, I might attempt that one also.

 

OP, I hope you don’t mind the thread drift that I created and are getting some new information to help your searches. You hit a personal hot button with your SA flights with stops issue. It is one of the few areas that many North American flyers can break up long flights to make them more comfortable in any flight class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...