Europa 2 -v- Seabourn Odyssey

We’re into our third day aboard Hapag Lloyd’s Europa 2 and are seriously impressed. Last year we took our first cruise on Seabourn Odyssey and are repeating with Odyssey in September again on a cruise around the Greek Islands. We spent a lot of time comparing the two lines when booking up so thought it might be interesting to share thoughts while we are live on Europa 2. We can only compare the ship with Odyssey, so apologies for those who are Encore-class fans. Happy to answer any questions while we are live onboard this cruise from Venice to Mallorca. NB we’re British so may be more pro a European cruise line than others (especially as we have lived and worked in Northern Europe).

To summarise, Europa 2 is a lot more expensive than Seabourn, but worth the difference if: (a) you are on a cruise to enjoy the boat and destinations rather than mingle extensively (there are only a dozen nations non-German speakers on this boat); (b) you are happy with smoking (I certainly am, shock, horror :-) and appreciate the numerous areas including verandas where smoking is allowed; c) you can stand the fact that excursions for international guests are limited to one or two per port; (d) you don't mind non- exclusive terms and having the pay for alcohol as you go; (e) you are prepared to book up to two years in advance for more popular cruises; and (f) you are open minded about being on a boat with other nationalities speaking a language other than English.

Don't get me wrong, Seabourn is fabulous, but Europa 2 is one star ahead of Odyssey. Only c. 50 passengers more but much more space and ceiling height with classier, more modern design. They have an extensive refit every two years and everything feels brand new.

We’re in a Penthouse suite with charming butlers who cannot do enough for you and feel truly cosseted. It’s more expensive per diem than a Seabourn Owners Suite and quite a bit smaller (i.e. the size of a Seabourn Penthouse suite) but spacious, perfectly formed and with significantly better service.

The pool is a proper size for a swim, open all day and about twice the size of that on Odyssey. There seems to be significantly more deck space and loungers are always available, many shady.

Food is extraordinarily good (no nickel and diming with family style chicken suppers here - even though I love them) and four speciality restaurants at no extra charge (as opposed to the Thomas Keller Grill) is a big plus. Three open at lunchtime without reservation. Wines and spirits good value with extensive choice (only €6 a cocktail). €200 per cruise booze credit for international guests, which goes a long way.

Staff are super helpful and attentive: they don't remember your name but being British is a bit of a help as they remember you. Butlers are a real plus but only available Penthouse and above.

The fellow passengers are on average about ten years younger than on our September trip with Odyssey last year. More reserved but friendly when in conversation. Perfect for us reserved Brits! Quite a few well behaved kids with special swimming times and numerous kids’ clubs.

Lots of free flowing champagne on arrival and at parties (Duval Leroy, much better that Nicolas Feuillate).

Not much entertainment yet but the band on board is of a significantly higher standard than the musical entertainment on Odyssey. The theatre (no shows yet) is double height and without columns. The pool deck has a sliding roof for wet weather which turns it into a huge winter garden by night.

Language is no problem - everything done in English as well as German, but best to flag you are an English speaker in every situation.

Terrific international cruise hostess Lisa who will be helping me with the translation for a Lobster cookery course on a sea day - free gin tasting that day too.

Air con was a problem the first day but that is now sorted.

Cabin amazing - clean, no vibration or noise, beautifully designed in a minimal way, Nespresso machine and spirits included.

We miss the choice of two open reservation outside venues (Colonnade / Patio) versus Yacht Club here, but Yacht Club rod includes Lobster and fabulous seafood every evening. Also no daily caviar, but tonight is caviar night in every restaurant and it is freely available in canapés at ship parties.

In short, if you like Seabourn, you’ll be absolutely blown away by Europa 2. It’s even more civilised. But we're still planning a lot more Seabourn trips too. As I said, happy to answer questions.

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To summarise, Europa 2 is a lot more expensive than Seabourn, but worth the difference if: (a) you are on a cruise to enjoy the boat and destinations rather than mingle extensively (there are only a dozen nations non-German speakers on this boat); (b) you are happy with smoking (I certainly am, shock, horror :-) and appreciate the numerous areas including verandas where smoking is allowed; c) you can stand the fact that excursions for international guests are limited to one or two per port; (d) you don't mind non- exclusive terms and having the pay for alcohol as you go; (e) you are prepared to book up to two years in advance for more popular cruises; and (f) you are open minded about being on a boat with other nationalities speaking a language other than English.

First, thanks for your informative and interesting post. For the sake of brevity I haven't requoted all of it, just your summary:

a. I don't mind hanging out with non-English speakers as I also speak French. But there needs to be a lingua franca and mingling is part of the enjoyment for me.

b. Smoking. That is a deal breaker for us.

c. I prefer a wider choice of excursions where possible.

d. Paying for drinks "as you go" is also a deal breaker for us.

e. Booking up to two years in advance is a problem. Even 6 months is a lot for us.

f. No problem with people speaking other languages so long as I can speak English, French and Glaswegian.

Thanks for this, very interesting as I've had Europa 2 in my sights for a quite some time now.

As you pointed out, it is very difficult to get a booking on this ship. For a first cruise I'd only be wanting to stump up for an Ocean suite and that category sells out fast. I'm not able to book my holidays in advance, except Christmas, so this finding availability has been a big problem for me.

I knew that the ship attracts a lot of families so kids were a concern, however I don't mind well behaved kids.

I wasn't aware of the smoking issue. It hadn't actually occurred to me that it would be an issue, so I'm glad that it's been pointed out as it's probably a dealbreaker.

The smoking, paying for alcohol and to a lesser extent limited tours are things that would make me consider booking elsewhere. However, its always nice to see what options are out there.

I have looked at Europa 2 many times, but found most of the med itineraries very dull. The smoking would drive me crackers and drinks as you go combined with two years ahead booking, nah, I'll save my money.

Thanks all for views. Will keep you informed as the journey progresses.

In brief, smoking may change in time (on the new Hanseatic ships launched next year there is one indoor smoking lounge and no outdoor smoking). But for now, if you don't like smoking on deck this probably isn't for you. Excursions in English limited but good value for what they are, with obviously small group sizes. Best probably to go for cruise itineries like this where you can go ashore on your own easily. Booking ahead is a big problem - we had to book for a Hapag Lloyd Hanseatic inspiration Great Lakes cruise 2.5 years in advance..after being on a wait list! Service in speciality restaurants can be fraught and slow, as it was this evening, but the caviar was sensational. Kids on board are well behaved and quiet. All inclusive drinks easier on Seabourn unless you like a la carte choices - the wine list on Europa 2 for better wines is longer and cheaper.

Still a beautiful ship!

Thanks all for views. Will keep you informed as the journey progresses.

 

In brief, smoking may change in time (on the new Hanseatic ships launched next year there is one indoor smoking lounge and no outdoor smoking). But for now, if you don't like smoking on deck this probably isn't for you. Excursions in English limited but good value for what they are, with obviously small group sizes. Best probably to go for cruise itineries like this where you can go ashore on your own easily. Booking ahead is a big problem - we had to book for a Hapag Lloyd Hanseatic inspiration Great Lakes cruise 2.5 years in advance..after being on a wait list! Service in speciality restaurants can be fraught and slow, as it was this evening, but the caviar was sensational. Kids on board are well behaved and quiet. All inclusive drinks easier on Seabourn unless you like a la carte choices - the wine list on Europa 2 for better wines is longer and cheaper.

 

Still a beautiful ship!

I agree that it's a beautiful ship, at least from what I've seen in their brochure and in customer's photos and a couple of videos.

The smoking policy described for Hanseatic sounds promising.

But yes, the booking ahead is a bit of a nightmare as I've already found out.

Definitely interested to read more as and when you can post. Enjoy. your cruise!

I've heard very good things about the Europa2, but your description just does not sound like 1star better than Seabourn. Is the food significantly better, or service, or ????

If I was German, this ship would make total sense, as many Germans still smoke, so their policy obviously aligns with the demographic they seek. However as a non-German speaker non-smoker, I really cannot see the obvious advantages of a more expensive ship with non-inclusive alcohol that needs to be booked two years in advance!

Maybe as your journey continues, you can elaborate on areas that Seabourn falls short and where the Europa is 'worth' the extra money.:halo:

Many thanks for the detailed comparison. Especially appreciate the smoking alert!

Are you on the Sept 8 Athen-Athen cruise?

Not for me but sounds perfect for German speaking teetotal introverts who like to smoke!

Many thanks for the detailed comparison. Especially appreciate the smoking alert!

Are you on the Sept 8 Athen-Athen cruise?

Certainly am! Looking forward to some beautiful Greek weather then and revisiting some time of the places in the Cyclades I visited on a tighter Island Hopping budget 34 years ago (on £10 a day)! Hope to see you then.

I've heard very good things about the Europa2, but your description just does not sound like 1star better than Seabourn. Is the food significantly better, or service, or ????

 

If I was German, this ship would make total sense, as many Germans still smoke, so their policy obviously aligns with the demographic they seek. However as a non-German speaker non-smoker, I really cannot see the obvious advantages of a more expensive ship with non-inclusive alcohol that needs to be booked two years in advance!

 

Maybe as your journey continues, you can elaborate on areas that Seabourn falls short and where the Europa is 'worth' the extra money.:halo:

Sure. We haven't tried everything yet, but where Europa 2 scores higher (for us, at least) is in the following areas:

Interior design and space. Deck ceilings, particularly in public rooms, are higher and there is a much more spacious feeling. There is more space per passenger. All fixtures and fittings are more modern and expensive than on Odyssey and the design feels classier and more modern. Overall it feels much more luxurious. Beautiful art works. Three Steinway pianos.

Food. This is significantly better than on the Odyssey (and we really enjoyed the food on that with no complaints at all!). But this feels like a collection of really good high end restaurants in a capital city. Four speciality restaurants and the ability to visit three of them, open seated, at lunchtime is a real plus. The Italian restaurant Serenissima was way too frantic and charmless last night, with food taking ages, but calm and wonderful the day before. Just tried the French restaurant Tarragon for lunch today and the steak tartare was out of this world. Caviar last night was generous and better quality than on Seabourn. Breakfast choice in both the MDR Weltmeere and the outdoors Yacht Club is much greater with quirky offerings (such as an Indian spelt granola) and lots of different continental breads and smoked hams/fish/pate etc; huge choice of freshly squeezed juices although croissants better on Seabourn. You can even have foie gras for breakfast. You can have lobster somewhere every night if you want.

Pool and pool deck. The pool is significantly bigger on Europa 2, 15 metres, so you can do lengths. The pool area can be covered by a retracting screen in inclement weather and makes a beautiful two deck high indoors area.

Entertainment. Haven't seen much yet but the musicians are higher quality. Off to see a Vegas themed show tonight but at 10.30pm it's way too late.

Smoking. I am a pipe and cigar smoker and there is a beautiful modern bar for this purpose, open 24 hours a day, Collins.

I'd say service is on about the same level, perhaps a bit more formal on Europa 2, but the butler service for higher level suites is much better than Penthouse / Owner Suites and above on Seabourn as they will take care of pretty much everything for you with a smile, including excursion booking, dry cleaning, room service etc.

If anything else comes to mind as the journey progresses I will add it.

Not for me but sounds perfect for German speaking teetotal introverts who like to smoke!

:D I think I probably score three out of four there, so I'm probably on the right boat!

Ovener,

with regard to myself, you are preaching to the converted.

I have been on three cruises on the Europa 2, and it is by far my favourite ship.

If you have not already seen it there is an extensive thread on the Europa 2, and several threads on aspects of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, in the 'Luxury Cruising' segment.

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1822494

I look forward to reading your further reports on your cruise which I trust remains highly enjoyable.

Ovener,

 

with regard to myself, you are preaching to the converted.

 

I have been on three cruises on the Europa 2, and it is by far my favourite ship.

 

If you have not already seen it there is an extensive thread on the Europa 2, and several threads on aspects of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, in the 'Luxury Cruising' segment.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1822494

 

 

I look forward to reading your further reports on your cruise which I trust remains highly enjoyable.

Is there a Cliff notes version of that thread? 5 years and 29 pages is a lot to dig through to find out what most here are probably interested in: How does it compare to Seabourn. What do they do better? What do they do not as well? You're converted but what made you convert from Seabourn to HL?

Is there a Cliff notes version of that thread? 5 years and 29 pages is a lot to dig through to find out what most here are probably interested in: How does it compare to Seabourn. What do they do better? What do they do not as well? You're converted but what made you convert from Seabourn to HL?

There's a poster called 'catlover54' who still cruises with Seabourn (or did until recently) who did an excellent trip report with pics on Europa 2 around 3 years ago.

I'm hoping she (? I believe) will see this thread but it may be worth searching to find that thread. (I'll have a look but it will be later this evening.)

Overall she does prefer Europa 2 but being a recent cruiser on SB she's very balanced.

She does speak German though, which I'm sure helps.

Hello all, HL (but also SB) fan here, just saw this thread. I just got off a two-week cruise on MS Europa a couple days ago, the Europa 2 (E2) sister ship.

I had a 5/5 experience on it, much better than on my last two Quest trips and better than on my last good but not perfect E2 cruise, and am working on my review and will post soon on the “luxury cruising” forum.

My last E2 cruise was fall 2017 and I wrote a long review on CC, linked below, which rated that one 4/5 and in which I compared some of the E2 experiences with SB Quest in April/May 2017.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=598442

BTW, though the MS Europa is also HL, and officially German only, my luxury experience on it was different, better, (5/5 on food and service) than on the E2, which in turn was better than on my last SB cruise ( both of the latter 4/5). Everything negative I comment on about the E2 trip last fall in the review was not an issue at all on the Europa.

I will be on SB again this Christmas, with DH, who prefers English language lines with more social interaction opportunities for him.

My prior E2 trip in a PH suite was 5/5 Christmas 2015, will link to that review soon when I find it.

Found my thread Isklaar was referring to, my first E2 cruise, which was holidays and in a PH suite.

It is long and has a lot about South Africa, so you can skim for ship specifics, but also includes sample menus from various restaurants and some other photos of the ship are mixed in with local touring pix.

The most reliable links to photos are right at the end of the thread, because somehow the photobucket links early on got messed up.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2290219&highlight=catlover54

Found my thread Isklaar was referring to, my first E2 cruise, which was holidays and in a PH suite.

 

It is long and has a lot about South Africa, so you can skim for ship specifics, but also includes sample menus from various restaurants and some other photos of the ship are mixed in with local touring pix.

 

The most reliable links to photos are right at the end of the thread, because somehow the photobucket links early on got messed up.

 

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2290219&highlight=catlover54

Thanks for adding the link Catlover!

At the time you were writing this thread, I was on a Panama Canal cruise with SB so I probably didn't post on it at the time. So I'll say thank you now, I very much enjoyed it when I did read it.

Is there a Cliff notes version of that thread? 5 years and 29 pages is a lot to dig through to find out what most here are probably interested in: How does it compare to Seabourn. What do they do better? What do they do not as well? You're converted but what made you convert from Seabourn to HL?

Apart from the on-board experience as described by Ovener, I was impressed by Hapag-Lloyd Cruises customer service.

On my first cruise, the Europa 2's first port of call, having set out from Hamburg, was Southampton.

I arrived at the port to find that there were no porters, and no one from the ship to help me board.

On my return to the UK I sent an e-mail to HL suggesting that assistance when boarding at a port of call would be appreciated.

The Company's response apologised for the inconvenience caused, and advised that it was giving me a Euro 500 credit on a future cruise.

On my latest cruise, I had booked through HL a 5* hotel in Hamburg.

Two days before I was due to fly out to Germany, HL advised my TA that it had been notified by the hotel that it was overbooked and it was cancelling my reservation.

HL advised that it had made a reservation at a comparable hotel, was refunding me the cost of the original hotel, and paying for the replacement.

That sounds a lot nicer than getting onboard to find a construction zone.

First, thanks for your informative and interesting post. For the sake of brevity I haven't requoted all of it, just your summary:

 

a. I don't mind hanging out with non-English speakers as I also speak French. But there needs to be a lingua franca and mingling is part of the enjoyment for me.

 

b. Smoking. That is a deal breaker for us.

 

c. I prefer a wider choice of excursions where possible.

 

d. Paying for drinks "as you go" is also a deal breaker for us.

 

e. Booking up to two years in advance is a problem. Even 6 months is a lot for us.

 

f. No problem with people speaking other languages so long as I can speak English, French and Glaswegian.

1. You do not really have to "pay" for drinks "as you go". You just verbally give your suite number in the bars or small restaurants (if they do not already remember who you are, e.g., MDR), on an honor system, sign nothing, do not have to show your card.

It goes on your e-account and at the end goes on your credit card. That is very different from trying to find your card and fussing with signatures every time you get thirsty.

Fundamentally, you are still "paying" for alcohol on SB, you are just paying ahead of time and SB decides which wines will be included, not you, you pay either way if you do not like them and then pay again if you want to order off the overpriced wine list.

Overall, however, Europa 2 is of course more expensive per diem (absent a sale) than is SB and SS, because of food and service quality and even greater passenger space. But as food and avoidance of service annoyances and battles are most important, I go with HL. DH preferred SB despite our service comedies both ins 2016 and 2017, as he speaks zero German and likes to socialize (e.g., no "join a communal table" option on Europa 2 at dinner), in English with native speakers, and because of the hot tubs in the bows, that are also HOT (they are not above body temperature on the Europa 2)

2. Most indoor venues are non-smoking, including dining areas, though there is a designated smoking area in the outdoor part of the indoor/outdoor venue Yacht Club, so some whiffs may go over to the non-smoking area and I wish they would work harder to keep the door to the smoking lounge CLOSED and not open.

People are indeed allowed to smoke on balconies and outdoor venues, most did not smoke, however, on my two Europa2 cruises, Ovener is describing more smoking than I saw.

As I comment in my reviews, those who are extremely sensitive medically or emotionally would dislike the smoking options even at this level, but note they also complain on SB about the outdoor smoking bar. Some will not be happy unless smoking is totally banned on a ship.

3. I would like a new Europa 3, (not just two new expedition ships) so we would have greater ease of booking without fighting for a spot on key itinerary cruises as much as 2 years ahead of time. But many people on SB and SS already book 18-24 months ahead of time anyway.

Note also that at 7 months when significant pre-cruise cancellation penalties come in, so that is when many German bookers who pre-booked casually with only 10% down start cancelling and spots open up, your TA would need to be alert, and watch the German version of the HL website.

4. From what Ovener has posted, it sounds like they still have some dining room service issues to iron out which they did not have on my first E2 cruise late 2015/early 2016, but sound similar to when I cruised last fall. I also had major service issues on SB Quest spring 2017 inappropriate for a luxury line, (though had 5/5 service on Odyssey September 2015 when I became a fan), which I chronicled on my live Quest thread (like a laundry person busting into my suite while I was in the tub to talk to me about missing trousers, in addition to repeated dining room issues). Maybe if DH and I were more important regular high end suite SB customers crew would know and give us extra care (only 4 SB cruises so far), but I will still like to mix and match my cruise lines.

I do look forward to our SB cruise this Christmas with DH, it has been too long.

Many thanks to English Voyager and Catlover54: your previous reviews were very helpful and really swung booking up Europa 2 for me. I agree a Europa 3 would be great given the need to book well in advance. This cruise is fully booked and every cabin taken, but it still feels calm and uncrowded. Apart from the Yacht Club...which is often rammed when it opens in the evening!

As lovely as Europa sounds re food, decor I am like Cat Lover's husband and prefer more social interaction. I also unfortunately haven't managed to train my brain to learn more then a few words of any other language.

I have also had a couple of unfortunate memories of not being able to use my balcony due to cigarette smoke and was so glad when Seabourn changed their policy.

I do appreciate hearing what the differences are by cruisers who have sailed on both cruise lines. It certainly helps make more informed decisions.

Julie

As lovely as Europa sounds re food, decor I am like Cat Lover's husband and prefer more social interaction. I also unfortunately haven't managed to train my brain to learn more then a few words of any other language.

 

I have also had a couple of unfortunate memories of not being able to use my balcony due to cigarette smoke and was so glad when Seabourn changed their policy.

 

I do appreciate hearing what the differences are by cruisers who have sailed on both cruise lines. It certainly helps make more informed decisions.

 

Julie

Cigarette smoke on neighbouring verandas was a real problem for us in the past as well.

Far be it for me to knock Europa as I have never tried it. However, with 14 cruises on Seabourn I can honestly say that we have never had a bad or unsatisfactory one. As the saying goes, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. So we will be staying loyal to Seabourn, looking forward to our next cruise in December and to seeing friends and acquaintances who we know will be on-board.