Holland america medical care

First time I have posted on this web site, but felt I needed to reply to concerns expressed about the medical care on Holland boats. We cruised Alaska in September on the Oosterdam. My husband had a fainting spell, and I was extremely distressed that it was his heart. We are both in our 70's and he suffers from high blood pressure. He received excellent care from the medical staff who were from South Africa. They were very professional and diagnosed his condition immediately, allaying my fears. The care they provided only increased our desire to continue our future cruises with the Holland line.

I’m so happy to hear that your experience was excellent. I would like others to comment on their experiences. As a 17 years, mostly part time as I’m multi specialty and 30 years emergency experience,my experience with South African doctors was unsettling since all 4 were too green but the managing doctors in headquarters were also Sout African and had the natural human preference for fellow countrymen. Regardless, I never ask anyone (I have a good record) an unknown doctor no matter on telephone what I should do immediately! When patients are alive and stabilized I as for help with disposition and transfer. That way I give thrombosis for heart attacks in ‘5’ Minutes and not WASTE time calling a micromanager arrogant ‘daddy or mommy’ Doctor who controls us basically to make profit and skirt law suits. I’m 100 percent immigrant blood

American and love and appreciate all people and respect any good doctors.

:halo::loudcry::*

My thoughts, too.

I guess you have me figured out,huh?

Judge not less thou be judged.

I have a lot of everything besides vitriol friend! You probably don’t get it, but don’t judge a book by its cover.

I don’t know you, but I love you, and if you came to me as a patient I would see that I would do my utmost to help, your comment and assessment of my being vitriolic is that I am a whole person, telling the truth and desirous to save lives, and if I am proven wrong I will say on this thread. I’m overbooked as a physician on land and sea, but unfortunately a loyalist and the Holland America I knew with mutual respected changed. I have always worked with hostile situations and know that I could have effected good changes if not shut out for not being South African (you know AFRIKANER). I wondering if Aparthaid is something at work and I cannot grasp such racism remnants

That is not what I was told by my Family Physician who used to doctor for Hal. Just before Christmas he told me he would no longer be able to do it. All hiring is through Princess now and they are on a 6 month contract. That means no doctor in Canada or USA with a practice would be able to participate. I asked him if it meant now all on board doctors would be retired old farts:eek:and he said, yes.

Why does the 6-month contract mean that "no doctor in Canada or USA would be able to participate? A difference in two months, between a 4-month and a 6-month practice, will automatically preclude a practicing physician?

:halo::loudcry::*

I guess you have me figured out,huh?

Judge not less thou be judged.

I have a lot of everything besides vitriol friend! You probably don’t get it, but don’t judge a book by its cover.

 

I don’t know you, but I love you, and if you came to me as a patient I would see that I would do my utmost to help, your comment and assessment of my being vitriolic is that I am a whole person, telling the truth and desirous to save lives, and if I am proven wrong I will say on this thread. I’m overbooked as a physician on land and sea, but unfortunately a loyalist and the Holland America I knew with mutual respected changed. I have always worked with hostile situations and know that I could have effected good changes if not shut out for not being South African (you know AFRIKANER). I wondering if Aparthaid is something at work and I cannot grasp such racism remnants

I absolutely do not have you figured out. In fact, I’m having trouble comprehending some of your statements.

I hope you find the peace you seek.

:eek::cool:I’m old but not a fart. I am like good doctors used to do ....give back all my skills ;medical, social, humanitarian,spiritual, etc. like Russell Crowe cringing at being told his ship was old in movie ‘Master an Commander, “She’s not old, she’s at the prime of life “, and guess which ship won? Yes the old one?

I have inside information I probably would be sued if I said.

I was the last North American doctor released and here 3 years later am a very much needed ship’s doctor on a line that loves and respects me, something I never felt on Holland and if possible it was logo rhythmically worse with Afrikan management. Basically I hung in after all were forced out and they kept me temporarily on during transition as I speak Spanish and 10 days of sea (30 days total on 3 voyages Antarctica) it was indispensable and I saved lives as Argentina ports have doctors who don’t want any medical disembarks. Somebody ask What’s to do if ship’s doctors don’t speak Spanish? Just call me Dr. Crowe!:p

Why does the 6-month contract mean that "no doctor in Canada or USA would be able to participate? A difference in two months, between a 4-month and a 6-month practice, will automatically preclude a practicing physician?

It is a legitimate problem. My physician friend (mentioned in a previous post) had no interest in a 6 month contract as it would have created professional problems for him at home. Like many ER Specialists he works for a private company that staffs ERs all over the USA (many hospital find it advantageous to outsource their ER medical staff). His company was willing to give him 2 months (and sometimes 4 months) off at a time (which is what he generally did when he worked on HAL) but asking for 6 months on and 6 months off would have been likely rejected. While he loved working as a cruise ship physician it is not something he wanted to do full time...as it would have really degraded his skills since the case load on a ship is nothing like what he deals with in a land-based ER. And there is also the income issue...but that is another story :).

Hank

We recently cruised on MS Amsterdam on a leg of the World Cruise. My wife became ill on the trip and, due to the severity of her initial problems, we went to the ship medical office. Two younger doctors, both from South Africa were on staff plus 2 critical care trained nurses from South Africa and one from Wales.

I'm an optometrist but work in a multi specialty medical practice, mainly with internists, so I definitely know the difference between good competent care and pro care.

I can not praise the doctors and staff highly enough for the excellent compassionate care they provided for my wife. All of our questions were answered promptly and they provided care equivalent to that she would have received at a shore based clinic.

DH had late night medical emergency on a recent Maasdam cruise and the attending MD was a Filipino trained doctor. DH is a retired MD (UCSF) and from his view point the care was excellent, From my viewpoint as a worried spouse, I wholeheartedly agree.

From the steward who arrived promptly to escort him to the medical office, to the excellent nurse who started the necessary tests, to the MD who immediately got to the point and provided all the information we needed to know. Our total charge was $700 for multiple tests and professional time. We too thought this was well-priced, considering what this would would be charged at a US ER.

Princess have taken over management of HAL medical facilities on the fleet. Their preference is for full time doctors and nurses. I.e. Four months on and 2 months off. This makes sense financially. Those working for HAL offered the choice of being full time or not. This appears to be a transition year with some shorter contracts being offered. It is a time of great change for HAL medical

Terry

This change was already made on the Koningsdam in 2016 when we were on the inaugural TA. I was told they did not want the inconsistency of doctors traveling for a free vacation. I think this change is for the better now that they have doctors on a longer contract who are employees.

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I also know someone who will not sail Princess because of incompetent medical care that she received a few years ago. Because the ship was unable to provide care they evacuated her to a foreign country (Mexico)....and by her description the care onboard ship was incompetent. She was in the hospital in a foreign country for several weeks before finally they sent her home. Her travel insurance eventually covered air transport back to the U.S. with coordination from the HMO mentioned above. Her husband refuses to cruise again.

 

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We would need more information to understand what was incompetent care and why the passenger thought there should have been a doctor onboard that could treat whatever caused them to need medical evacuation and to spend weeks in a hospital.

We all know that passengers cruise with serious medical conditions. Expecting the physician onboard to treat their condition, such as being a specialist in their type of cancer, or other disease, is just not realistic.

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My wife is an RN with over 30 years ER experience. There isn't anything she hasn't seen or can handle in an emergency situation. Each cruise we always like to visit the infirmary and see what type of setup's they have, their procedures and get to know the staff if they are not busy. She always walks away impressed by the professional's that staff the ship's infirmary's and would not hesitate one minute to send a loved one there. They are all very capable and professional.

I have tried to get her to consider a contract with HAL when we retire because spouses cruise for free.

Medical standards are generally higher in most European countries and of course Canada and the U.S. I have only had one foreign doctor do a minor operation...Kidney stone removal and I was sitting in a pool of blood when finished! He was from the same country as my excellent Cardiologist...India..

If they are licensed to practice in U.S. or Canada, they Are U.S. or Canadian doctors.

 

Doesn't matter if they went to Medical School in Russia, trained in U.K. but moved to U.S. and became licensed here... that makes them U.S. doctors, doesn't it?

No it does matter where they went to Medical school.

My wife is an RN with over 30 years ER experience. There isn't anything she hasn't seen or can handle in an emergency situation. Each cruise we always like to visit the infirmary and see what type of setup's they have, their procedures and get to know the staff if they are not busy. She always walks away impressed by the professional's that staff the ship's infirmary's and would not hesitate one minute to send a loved one there. They are all very capable and professional.

 

I have tried to get her to consider a contract with HAL when we retire because spouses cruise for free.

Staffing similar compact health delivery units like we see on cruise ships, and making them more accessible across the US might be the answer to our" national health care crisis", instead of handing out free insurance policies with no where to use them.

It is a legitimate problem. My physician friend (mentioned in a previous post) had no interest in a 6 month contract as it would have created professional problems for him at home. Like many ER Specialists he works for a private company that staffs ERs all over the USA (many hospital find it advantageous to outsource their ER medical staff). His company was willing to give him 2 months (and sometimes 4 months) off at a time (which is what he generally did when he worked on HAL) but asking for 6 months on and 6 months off would have been likely rejected. While he loved working as a cruise ship physician it is not something he wanted to do full time...as it would have really degraded his skills since the case load on a ship is nothing like what he deals with in a land-based ER. And there is also the income issue...but that is another story :).

 

Hank

Thank you for the explanation. The OP made it sound, however, that regardless of the unlikelihood of U.S. or Canadian doctors being able to take off six months, those doctors would no longer be hired. In other words, it is an across-the-board policy?

Thank you for the explanation. The OP made it sound, however, that regardless of the unlikelihood of U.S. or Canadian doctors being able to take off six months, those doctors would no longer be hired. In other words, it is an across-the-board policy?

There were lots of rumors flying as to the real policy (like many things HAL holds some policy decisions close to the vest). But the bottom line was prior to the policy change, HAL was about the only major mass market line to exclusively use on USA or Canadian physicians (nearly all highly qualified trauma docs). But after the policy change I do not think that HAL has any physicians from North America. Draw your own conclusions as to why they made this change. As to the qualifications of the current physicians, we have no clue. We would hope they are the equivalent of Board Certified Traumatologists.

Hank

This thread is much ado about nothing IMO.

The assumption that 'Canadian' and 'US' doctors aka physicians are better than others are beyond my comprehension.

Has anyone considered that some countries have better training than we do? Mexico is one at their top university. they train their physicians to be clinicians. We have no such credential here but those physicians can spot symptoms from skin tone, take blood pressure with their hands/palms, etc.

Of course, when they come here, they get to intern all over again, but they keep what they learned.

I will be forever grateful when one of my clients ( a physician trained elsewhere originally) came into my work place and asked to see me for a moment. I had a wonderful employee who was so proud she was losing weight whom he had just seen. He asked me to get to her doctor sublty and fast. He knew from looking at her that she had cancer and he was right, sadly. But, the quick diagnosis bought her a lot of time to let her see her daughters graduate.

I don't think any of our physcians here have been trained in this manner.

And, with respect, these people that hold this honourable profession are called physicians.

Thank you for the explanation. The OP made it sound, however, that regardless of the unlikelihood of U.S. or Canadian doctors being able to take off six months, those doctors would no longer be hired. In other words, it is an across-the-board policy?

There are quite a few doctors that do 6 month contracts. A friend of mine (US Doctor) does 6 months a year in A New Zealand ER and 6 months in an ER in a US hospital. Summer in both places.

South Africa is one of the countries that trains their physicians very well, but they do not pay them well locally so many leave. Spent some time talking with the ships doctor on the Pacific Princess and her husband a few years ago. They were both from South Africa. She had 5 years experience doing ER in a hospital in Cape Town, he was a Chemical Engineer. Her salary from Princess, was higher than both of their salaries if they had stayed working in South Africa.

:halo::loudcry::*

I guess you have me figured out,huh?

Judge not less thou be judged.

I have a lot of everything besides vitriol friend! You probably don’t get it, but don’t judge a book by its cover.

 

I don’t know you, but I love you, and if you came to me as a patient I would see that I would do my utmost to help, your comment and assessment of my being vitriolic is that I am a whole person, telling the truth and desirous to save lives, and if I am proven wrong I will say on this thread. I’m overbooked as a physician on land and sea, but unfortunately a loyalist and the Holland America I knew with mutual respected changed. I have always worked with hostile situations and know that I could have effected good changes if not shut out for not being South African (you know AFRIKANER). I wondering if Aparthaid is something at work and I cannot grasp such racism remnants

You apparently have an axe to grind with /south African doctors, and specifically the Afrikaans speaking ones. It would be interesting to know what that is all about.

The comments from passengers here have had only good things to say about South African doctors they have encountered on ships.

My experience with South Africans abroad - even those Afrikaans speaking ones - have been that they are generally outgoing and open minded. And as an Afrikaans speaking South African (and also an American) I can spot those with attitude and racial issues a mile away.

How quick you are to judge again. I have no axe thus none to grind. Sorry to upset your tea cart! I am moving on as I don’t need to convince someone like you. I know what I’m talking about and you are not. If anyone else has a question that won’t have the corporate sue me ask ahead you sir/mamm only are critical and while stated true facts you respond and go criticize someone else who didn’t spend a life training and finishing age 34, not 23 like South African doctors. I will follow different threads to take on comments that I can learn from. I only knew about Afrikaans 2 years ago and speak regularly to people who still feel the hateful Apartheid, which was and is a form of caste system and many still fascist attitudes.

I would like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly about Holland America medical department. Please be specific so I can learn and adjust my mind as to the safety of the medical center.

To be fair I think pretty staff and friendly takes on second place compared to anyone who had suffered or died from any missed diagnosis or died or was forced onto inadequate port facilities.:confused:

Emergency, I am glad you and HAL parted ways.

I would like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly about Holland America medical department. Please be specific so I can learn and adjust my mind as to the safety of the medical center.

 

To be fair I think pretty staff and friendly takes on second place compared to anyone who had suffered or died from any missed diagnosis or died or was forced onto inadequate port facilities.:confused:

First hand experience...OK here goes my 3 times with the Doctors aboard HAL since 2010.

1st experience...Smashed fingers of right hand in Veranda door. Crushing injury which Dr at first thought would have to have me evacuated to hospital for amputation. Luckily she was able to discern that no broken bones (x-rays), but was able to stitch one finger up and splinted and bandaged up. Canadian Dr with follow ups over 10 days between her and the Crew Doctor who was Philippine.

As an aside, I may be the only passenger around who was able to give the Captain the "Finger" and get away with it. LOL

2nd and 3rd times were in 2014 and 2016. Both times were South African Drs who were made aware upon my boarding that I had a broken back and a couple other small matters related to other medical problems that did not preclude my cruising. As my Doctor said, I can either sit at home vegetating or sitting on a ship.

I do not care what country a doctor is from. What I care about is the fact that they DO HAVE the experience in ER Trauma and can care for me to my liking.

Joanie

I would like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly about Holland America medical department. Please be specific so I can learn and adjust my mind as to the safety of the medical center.

 

To be fair I think pretty staff and friendly takes on second place compared to anyone who had suffered or died from any missed diagnosis or died or was forced onto inadequate port facilities.:confused:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have only good things to say.

Sixth months ago, I fell and smacked my back on the side of a dock. It hurt a lot and hurt to breathe, so I was afraid of broken ribs. Rather than go to a shoreside hospital (despite being in the US), I decided to begin with the ship's medical staff, knowing that if something was severely wrong, they would send me to a hospital. They took x-rays and found no broken bones--the pain was all from the bruising. The doctor, who sounded like he was from the US (but I didn't ask where he trained), took the time to discuss pain med options. He didn't just hand me a bottle of pills and a piece of paper with instructions.

Having taken DH to a US ER after a bicycle accident, I have to say I felt that my shipboard care was as good as any DH received at home. Actually better--a lot faster because there was no queue, and more focused because the doctor wasn't running from patient to patient the way we've seen at the ER at our local hospital.

And yes, the staff were all friendly. When you're in pain and afraid that you're about to be sent off the ship to a hospital (and say goodbye to the rest of your cruise), a calm demeanor and a smile can make you feel better. (It's called "bedside manner," in case you weren't taught that)