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Thinking of leaving my good camera at home


Jakemedic
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The new 18-135 APS-C Sony zoom is very sharp and fairly compact. It covers about 98% of what I shoot on a cruise (I use the 18-105 f/4 and rarely take it off the a6300).

 

Dave.

 

Have you used this lens Dave? It says it's about 2" smaller than the 18-105. I'm still struggling with whether or not to buy another body, probably the a6300. A matter whether or not my wonderful husband would rather carry the extra one all the time, vice me switching lenses occasionally. I want to take more with the wide angle lens on our next trip.

 

Vic

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The new 18-135 APS-C Sony zoom is very sharp and fairly compact. It covers about 98% of what I shoot on a cruise (I use the 18-105 f/4 and rarely take it off the a6300).

 

Dave.

 

Have you used this lens Dave? It says it's about 2" smaller than the 18-105. I'm still struggling with whether or not to buy another body, probably the a6300. A matter whether or not my wonderful husband would rather carry the extra one all the time, vice me switching lenses occasionally. I want to take more with the wide angle lens on our next trip.

 

Vic

 

I haven't used one yet. Since I have the 18-105, I'll likely not pick one up any time soon unless the comprehensive tests back up the rumors and first impressions and show it to be a very solid performer.

 

Another reason is that I'm looking seriously at the proven-to-be-incredible 24-105 FE lens. And yes, that means I'm seriously considering a move to FE if Sony doesn't turbocharge an APS-C camera soon.

 

It doesn't mean I don't dearly love my A6000 and A6300. It means that the A7rIII is a game-changer and it got my attention.

 

Dave

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The new 18-135 APS-C Sony zoom is very sharp and fairly compact. It covers about 98% of what I shoot on a cruise (I use the 18-105 f/4 and rarely take it off the a6300).

 

Dave.

 

Interesting that the 18-135mm should be brought up just when I was going to ask Dave the same thing!

 

I use the Sony 18-105mm as my general take-it-around lens but the new one is (if I read correctly) smaller, lighter and has a greater reach.

 

Hope Vic and others take the plunge before I do!

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I tested the 18-135. It's VERY nice, almost a third lighter, with slightly more light available and faster focus. Only issue to me is the switch from a 72 to a 55mm glass, I noticed a tiny bit of vignetting at full zoom. It's next on my list to replace my 18-105 once I can afford a 18-400 Tamron for the main body.

 

As to the OP, the answer to me is, it depends. On our next cruise, one of our ports is San Juan and I have plans to do a LOT of photography there so I am taking the Nikon and (hopefully) the 18-400 and my 18-105 Art. However, absent that port, I would probably just have taken the A6000 with the 18-105 and the 18-55 kit, all of which fit fine in my standard travel bag and don't weigh very much. I will still probably take that for the other ports. We're also doing a quick stop at Disney to see Pandora at night so I want the much higher light range of the Nikon (a weak spot on the 6000)

 

There have been some cruises to repeat ports where I just use my iPhone (currently an X but was either a 6,7, or 8 at the time) and it did just fine for what I wanted it for.

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The 18-135mm is likely next on my list - I never was drawn to the 18-105mm as I don't like power zoom lenses, so the 18-135mm being a traditional manual zoom is right up my alley, not to mention the extra reach - sounds like a perfect kit lens replacement for my venerable 18-55mm.

I just sent in some older lenses and camera body for sale/trade, and am waiting to see what I get for them - then I'll decide how much I have to spend and what new to buy with it!

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First of all - to each his/her own. If you like having the stuff, by all means, take it.

 

Having said that, after spending the best part of four decades hauling cases of various photo and television gear all over the world, I'm very happy with the pictures I get from my iPhone. I learned early on that if you know it's limits and don't push'em, you can do good work with the device.

 

I would encourage anyone to look a Dave Kennerly's work with an iPhone in order to see what's possible with that thing in your pocket.

 

Of course I do make an exception when I go on dive trips - then I lug a Pelican on board with all my stuff. That's enough reminder of the old days!

 

. . . and to those folks who talk me about the limits of my phone I usually say to them "You've never used a Speed Graphic or a Filmo have you?"

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

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Have you used this lens Dave? It says it's about 2" smaller than the 18-105. I'm still struggling with whether or not to buy another body, probably the a6300. A matter whether or not my wonderful husband would rather carry the extra one all the time, vice me switching lenses occasionally. I want to take more with the wide angle lens on our next trip.

 

Vic

 

I haven't used one yet. Since I have the 18-105, I'll likely not pick one up any time soon unless the comprehensive tests back up the rumors and first impressions and show it to be a very solid performer.

 

Another reason is that I'm looking seriously at the proven-to-be-incredible 24-105 FE lens. And yes, that means I'm seriously considering a move to FE if Sony doesn't turbocharge an APS-C camera soon.

 

It doesn't mean I don't dearly love my A6000 and A6300. It means that the A7rIII is a game-changer and it got my attention.

 

Dave

 

http://enthusiastphotoblog.com/2018/01/28/sony-24-105mm-f-4-g-lens-review/

 

Put aside the obvious IQ differences between full frame and aps-c, Sony has really taken completely different avenues between them.

 

Sony aps-c is really all consumer grade lenses. Still not 16-50/2.8. A couple decent primes. Mostly poor to mediocre zooms.

The a6000-a6500 have great features, performance etc. But the ergonomics are decidedly poor for advanced photographers.

 

In comparison, they don’t pull stops on the full frame lenses. Lots of spectacular glass. And ergonomics have finally reached a pro-level with the a7riii. Fantastic EVF. The thumb stick a far improved way to move the AF point. Battery life is finally really usable. The functionality is top of the line. My favorite custom feature:

 

http://enthusiastphotoblog.com/2018/01/27/programming-instant-reaction-button-on-the-sony-a7riii-and-a9/

 

I haven’t pulled out my a6300 once since I got the a7riii.

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Thank you everyone for your feedback! It is greatly appreciated. Think I will drag my Nikon along for the trip. Would enjoy getting some shots of a rain forest on one of the islands we are stopping on. Now when we go to Alaska, I get a new camera or at least a camera with some friends and rented a motor home. 3000 plus photos and some amazing shots!

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Where do you send them?

 

That 28-135mm sounds tempting.

 

I've generally had good luck trading old gear in rather than selling on my own...though I've done that in the past too. With selling, you have to incur a little fee with an eBay or Amazon marketplace, and the time and frustration of offers and questionable untrustworthy buyers, plus the packing expense is usually yours too. When trading in, you get less than if you sold it on your own, but you get a quote online after carefully describing the lens and condition, they send you a pre-paid packing slip, you box up your gear and send it in, they review and confirm their offer (if lower, they'll notify you and you have a choice to proceed) - if you decide the offer is too low they will ship your gear back to you at their expense.

 

I have traded /sold gear to KEH.com, B&H PhotoVideo, and Amazon. All three have been reliable and I've gotten what I feel were fair prices for everything. B&H can sometimes quote a little lower, but generally sticks to the price unless you've badly mis-described the gear or condition, KEH has been pretty spot on for me most of the time, and Amazon often quotes the highest amount, but often does end up offering less once it's reviewed, I think even if the description was accurate, they seem inclined to bring you down one classification - yet their quote will usually show you the price range including the next lower price - so you can actually use that as a good gauge of the lower end price to expect...and it's still sometimes higher than the quotes from other spots.

 

This time, I've sent the camera body to B&H, requesting store credit, since I'd likely buy the new lens from there anyway, and the older lenses I sent to KEH, because they deal in used cameras and will take in dead mounts and old brands (the lenses I sent were Minolta). If the quotes are accurate, I should end up with around $1,200 to spend on new gear, trading in some older gear I never used anymore anyway.

 

Put aside the obvious IQ differences between full frame and aps-c, Sony has really taken completely different avenues between them.

 

Sony aps-c is really all consumer grade lenses. Still not 16-50/2.8. A couple decent primes. Mostly poor to mediocre zooms.

The a6000-a6500 have great features, performance etc. But the ergonomics are decidedly poor for advanced photographers.

 

Just one quick note here: while I agree Sony has focused their APS-C as mostly consumer grade - which BTW is not all that different from Canon and Nikon who both have very few APS-C lenses and most are consumer-grade as well - I don't think 'ergonomics' is one of those things that can be generally and universally classified. Everyone is different, and ergonomics can't be designed to satisfy everyone - I for one actually PREFER the ergonomics and design of the A6xxx series cameras over the A7x bodies. Not that I don't also like those, and fully acknowledge they have more direct controls and a bigger finder - but the small design with no protruding bump at top, left mounted viewfinder, good finger-wrap grip is something I definitely like about the A6xxx over previous large DSLRs and larger bodied mirrorless. It simply works for me, comfortably and quickly, especially when I'm out doing birds and wildlife. I know all the controls, which I've kept customized in the same places on all my cameras so I can find everything without looking. I find I'm not as tired at the end of the day, not just from the weight savings on the larger body, but even the large, deep, fat grips of DSLR bodies which can get tiring on the hands and my fingers over many hours of carrying them around. Since I don't use tripods, monopods, or straps, and just carry my gear by hand for hours and miles of walking, the small body with good protruding grip is quite comfortable for me. I've even held off buying a full frame body because I'm hoping to see a new APS-C body with some of the focus improvements and sensor improvements that Sony's been spreading down the line, and maybe some other touch-ups like bigger viewfinder, but in that same rangefinder-ish A6xxx body style with left mounted EVF. I like it that much.

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I can't leave my camera at home. Being a bit old fashioned I would brace myself for the film/X-Ray confrontation with the TSA folks. I shoot mostly black and white and still enjoy darkroom work. One of my goals for a trip is to get an image good enough to print and hang on the wall. My gear devolved to a 35mm body and two lenses, a 35 and a 90. This was working just fine until our recent trip to South America. The better half informed me that the amount of film I planned on bringing was not going to happen. Taking that as permission to visit the camera store I now travel with a Fuji XPro-2 and two lenses. It is relatively small and light setup while the image quality is excellent. I just wish I knew what all of the buttons were for...

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I just wish I knew what all of the buttons were for...

 

When in doubt, read the instructions! :-)

 

I know what you mean. When I switched from a film camera, knowing what was the relation between ASA, speed and apperature, it was reading time unless I relied on "auto"!

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I've generally had good luck trading old gear in rather than selling on my own...though I've done that in the past too. With selling, you have to incur a little fee with an eBay or Amazon marketplace, and the time and frustration of offers and questionable untrustworthy buyers, plus the packing expense is usually yours too. When trading in, you get less than if you sold it on your own, but you get a quote online after carefully describing the lens and condition, they send you a pre-paid packing slip, you box up your gear and send it in, they review and confirm their offer (if lower, they'll notify you and you have a choice to proceed) - if you decide the offer is too low they will ship your gear back to you at their expense.

 

I have traded /sold gear to KEH.com, B&H PhotoVideo, and Amazon. All three have been reliable and I've gotten what I feel were fair prices for everything. B&H can sometimes quote a little lower, but generally sticks to the price unless you've badly mis-described the gear or condition, KEH has been pretty spot on for me most of the time, and Amazon often quotes the highest amount, but often does end up offering less once it's reviewed, I think even if the description was accurate, they seem inclined to bring you down one classification - yet their quote will usually show you the price range including the next lower price - so you can actually use that as a good gauge of the lower end price to expect...and it's still sometimes higher than the quotes from other spots.

 

This time, I've sent the camera body to B&H, requesting store credit, since I'd likely buy the new lens from there anyway, and the older lenses I sent to KEH, because they deal in used cameras and will take in dead mounts and old brands (the lenses I sent were Minolta). If the quotes are accurate, I should end up with around $1,200 to spend on new gear, trading in some older gear I never used anymore anyway.

 

 

 

Just one quick note here: while I agree Sony has focused their APS-C as mostly consumer grade - which BTW is not all that different from Canon and Nikon who both have very few APS-C lenses and most are consumer-grade as well - I don't think 'ergonomics' is one of those things that can be generally and universally classified. Everyone is different, and ergonomics can't be designed to satisfy everyone - I for one actually PREFER the ergonomics and design of the A6xxx series cameras over the A7x bodies. Not that I don't also like those, and fully acknowledge they have more direct controls and a bigger finder - but the small design with no protruding bump at top, left mounted viewfinder, good finger-wrap grip is something I definitely like about the A6xxx over previous large DSLRs and larger bodied mirrorless. It simply works for me, comfortably and quickly, especially when I'm out doing birds and wildlife. I know all the controls, which I've kept customized in the same places on all my cameras so I can find everything without looking. I find I'm not as tired at the end of the day, not just from the weight savings on the larger body, but even the large, deep, fat grips of DSLR bodies which can get tiring on the hands and my fingers over many hours of carrying them around. Since I don't use tripods, monopods, or straps, and just carry my gear by hand for hours and miles of walking, the small body with good protruding grip is quite comfortable for me. I've even held off buying a full frame body because I'm hoping to see a new APS-C body with some of the focus improvements and sensor improvements that Sony's been spreading down the line, and maybe some other touch-ups like bigger viewfinder, but in that same rangefinder-ish A6xxx body style with left mounted EVF. I like it that much.

 

Fuji has become the leader for serious aps-c. You’re right about Canon and Nikon, but they each have one pro aps-c body — the 7dii and d500. And they each have a standard 2.8 aps-c zoom.

 

I completely agree with you that ergonomics are largely subjective. But there are certain fairly objective issues as well in ergonomics and body design. For example, few people would object to the superior battery life of the a7riii for the minimal weight addition. Few wouldn’t prefer using the a7riii thumb stick for moving the af point. And I don’t know many people who like the movie record button on the a6000 series.

Of course a serious user — such as yourself — can really enjoy the a6000 series.

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The biggest "problem" with the cell phone camera is nothing more than memory. Invariably, after 100-150 or so pics my iPhone will run out of storage. Hell, I might take 150 or so photos the first day.....so I will take my Nikon in my Pelican case. That has 128 Gig card and I have (40 or so) of the cards. Can't be too careful on an Alaska cruise. :)

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But there are certain fairly objective issues as well in ergonomics and body design. For example, few people would object to the superior battery life of the a7riii for the minimal weight addition. Few wouldn’t prefer using the a7riii thumb stick for moving the af point. And I don’t know many people who like the movie record button on the a6000 series.

Of course a serious user — such as yourself — can really enjoy the a6000 series.

 

There are a LOT of us who object to the price tag of the a7riii! Consumers I suppose.

 

Vic

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There are a LOT of us who object to the price tag of the a7riii! Consumers I suppose.

 

Vic

I really don't object to the price tag of the A7rIII. It is probably closer to value for price than most cameras out there. My main objection is that it is more that I can easily pull out of my pocket as an impulse purchase.

 

The camera is reasonable as are the $5000 worth of lenses to get the most out of it. I just don't happen to have that much spare change in the piggy bank. The BIG piggy bank. 3 ft. tall, 275 lbs.

 

Dave

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I really don't object to the price tag of the A7rIII. It is probably closer to value for price than most cameras out there. My main objection is that it is more that I can easily pull out of my pocket as an impulse purchase.

 

The camera is reasonable as are the $5000 worth of lenses to get the most out of it. I just don't happen to have that much spare change in the piggy bank. The BIG piggy bank. 3 ft. tall, 275 lbs.

 

Dave

 

Which made me wonder, I can use full frame lenses on my APC-S camera, is the reverse true? A little searching, and the answer is YES. It resets the sensor to 18 megapixels automatically. Here is the link to the article I found https://alphauniverse.com/stories/max-versatility-think-about-aps-c-lenses-on-a-full-frame-camera/ Interesting.

 

Vic

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I actually don't even have a problem with the price of the A7RIII - I have mostly a problem with using a full-frame camera when most of my shooting will be birding and wildlife, and I still find it convenient to not have to crop as much using APS-C, and also getting a finer focus point on a larger percentage of my subject for critical focusing with fast moving and erratic subjects. Plus, even with 42MP, the full-frame sensors aren't quite as dense as the 24MP APS-C sensor - when I crop the full frame to the equivalent framing, I'm left with 18MP. And in birding and wildlife, you want every possible pixel you can get covering your target. So I still find APS-C to be preferable - but would indeed invite some of those upgrades Havoc mentioned in a new higher-end A6xxx style body - add the larger battery, maybe a little of the A9's focus motor and processing engine, and a joystick for focus point moves - maybe even a second rear dial - but leave the general body style unchanged, including the viewfinder where it is. That's the next camera I'm hoping to see, personally.

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There are a LOT of us who object to the price tag of the a7riii! Consumers I suppose.

 

Vic

 

LOL... I am not recommending the Sony A7riii for every amateur shooter. In fact, I think most amateur shooters are better off with aps-c.

 

I teach photography in some very well to do neighborhoods. I've had some pretty newbie photographers walk in with a full frame camera. They don't appreciate the value of glass, so the only lens they own is maybe the Canon 24-105/4. Now, if you're only going to own one lens, and it is going to be a F4 lens, then there was no reason to buy a full frame camera.

 

Regardless, I find most amateur shooters are better off with APS-C. The benefits of full frame just aren't worth it. Full frame is for pros, semi-pros, and really advanced enthusiasts who would actually benefit from the extra potential of a full frame system, and aren't afraid to spend the money on it.

 

None of the "big 3" systems have treated APS-C shooters great. They all try to steer their advanced users towards full frame. But Sony has been slightly worse than Canon and Nikon in this regard. Maybe that will change this year, and Sony will put more energy into the aps-c lineup. But it's been a year and a half since they have even released an aps-c camera, so the full frame lineup has lots of advancements that haven't appeared in the aps-c line yet.

 

I think a shooter like Zackiedawg would really benefit from some of the new features he mentioned, like larger battery, thumbstick, rear dial. I'll add for him, AF-on button, the ability to design custom functions. (Go from landscape shooting to bird shooting instantly, without even having to turn a memory dial).

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LOL... I am not recommending the Sony A7riii for every amateur shooter. In fact, I think most amateur shooters are better off with aps-c.

 

That was really my point. I COULD afford the price tag of the A7riii, but I won't. There is no value in it for me, because I wouldn't use it enough - or to its capabilities. The A6xxx series is perfect for me, and I go back and forth over whether to buy a 6300 or 6500. So far I haven't convinced myself. Isn't it grand to have so many choices?!

 

As Dave says, "It's a great time to be a photographer"!

 

Vic

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That was really my point. I COULD afford the price tag of the A7riii, but I won't. There is no value in it for me, because I wouldn't use it enough - or to its capabilities. The A6xxx series is perfect for me, and I go back and forth over whether to buy a 6300 or 6500. So far I haven't convinced myself. Isn't it grand to have so many choices?!

 

As Dave says, "It's a great time to be a photographer"!

 

Vic

 

While I’m certainly a Sony fan... if you haven’t deeply invested in lenses, you may way to also look at Fuji. IMO, they are the best system for those looking to stick to aps-c.

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Fuji XH-1 vs A6500. Both with 18-135 F/3.5-5.6 zoom lenses.

(Fuji needs battery grip to if you want 11 FPS shooting)

 

 

1,163g vs. 778g

 

$2,898 vs. $1,896 (Amazon)

 

 

p2752718614-5.jpg

 

p2752735345-5.jpg

 

There's a definite reason I have stuck with Sony in the APS-C world.

 

:)

 

Dave

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Brand aside, I agree on the crop/full sensor for wildlife. I shoot quite regularly with someone who has the full frame and much more expensive version of my crop sensor Nikon and I can easily outrange him and still get pretty great quality images. Outside the extreme zoom he kills me, but then again his camera and primary lens cost about 1/2 the price of my car, where mine combined is the cost of a good golf cart :)

 

With a crop sensor I've found you only need 3-4 lenses. One wide angle, one high quality short range, one utility and one superzoom (the last depends on what you shoot).

 

I've pared my general kit to a 12-18, 18-105 art, 18-400 general and 150-600 superzoom, which gives me effective range across the spectrum of 18-900 if fully equipped. My only wish is for faster apertures in a package I can afford.

 

 

 

I actually don't even have a problem with the price of the A7RIII - I have mostly a problem with using a full-frame camera when most of my shooting will be birding and wildlife, and I still find it convenient to not have to crop as much using APS-C, and also getting a finer focus point on a larger percentage of my subject for critical focusing with fast moving and erratic subjects. Plus, even with 42MP, the full-frame sensors aren't quite as dense as the 24MP APS-C sensor - when I crop the full frame to the equivalent framing, I'm left with 18MP. And in birding and wildlife, you want every possible pixel you can get covering your target. So I still find APS-C to be preferable - but would indeed invite some of those upgrades Havoc mentioned in a new higher-end A6xxx style body - add the larger battery, maybe a little of the A9's focus motor and processing engine, and a joystick for focus point moves - maybe even a second rear dial - but leave the general body style unchanged, including the viewfinder where it is. That's the next camera I'm hoping to see, personally.
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