Jump to content

Is there a decline in quality?


Toryhere
 Share

Recommended Posts

Unibok, I agree with much of what you say but there should be a way to explain to people that are looking at doing a luxury cruise what the "culture" (for lack of a better word) is like on the ship. At the risk of getting bashed, I've been reading the NCL board as we will do a three-night preview cruise on the NCL Bliss at the end of May and I am very interested in learning as much as possible about the ship, passengers, etc. The discussions on the NCL board could not be more different than on luxury cruise line boards and I doubt if many NCL passengers would enjoy a luxury cruise line -- not because they are bad people or are "less than" anyone else. The majority seem to want a party atmosphere and wondered why lounges closed at 3:00 a.m.

 

So, although I don't use the term "like-minded", in a way you do have to be like-minded in some ways - whether you are on a mainstream, premium or luxury cruise line. Having said that, we have tried Silversea three times - love two of their ships, the service and the food. However, it is important to many guests on Silversea to keep the more formal dress code alive and well. We prefer an elegant casual dress code so we do not think the same as the majority of Siversea passengers. This does not make us wrong or right.

 

In terms of people that sail mainstream cruise lines - I know some people that are quite wealthy and because they enjoy what the mainstream cruise lines offer, they sail on them. So, no one should make the assumption that people that sail on mainstream cruise lines cannot afford anything better.

 

Not sure if this made sense but I tried.

 

There is a lot of good things in there, but I have to say all that talk about classism and racism is so cliched that it almost ruined your argument. Such terms are these days the tools of the puritans who are so dedicated to making everyone conform to a ghastly, humorless life where everybody Is constantly looking to be offended.

The anti bigots are just as keen as any member of the old upper classes to prove themselves the elect and our betters, they are just lying about it. Let us not speak of such people. They are a blight on the modern world.

All your other points are good. It is all subjective. But there is never anything wrong with anyone claiming his preference is the best. That is no condemnation of others’choices, just affirmation of one’s own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you've pointed out, though, the vibe or culture of a ship or line isn't standard either, so it's hard to explain generally. I bet it even changes on long vs short voyages. Though Regent, Crystal, and SeaDream are all considered luxury lines, I bet there are pretty major differences in the culture between them. I tell people about the culture of the cruises I've been on (Crystal, transoceanic), but I wouldn't try to tell anyone about the culture of Silversea, Regent, or even Crystal on a port-intensive Med cruise.

 

Travel cat, you make great points about a ship's culture as well as a line's culture. Calliopecruiser, I also like your observation about variations from itinerary to itinerary even on the same line and ship.

 

Had I taken comments on these boards too seriously, I would not have sailed with Silversea for fear that it would be too pretentious and stuffy. It was easy to make alternative arrangements on formal night. The Italian speciality restaurant was packed that night, with "like-minded" others who also sought a less formal experience.

 

That particular sailing was also filled with multi-generational families -- 42 children! -- which is quite an anomaly for SS.

 

Right there, two of my expectations about the ship (and the line) were debunked. Well, at least they were for that sailing with that itinerary at that moment during the school break season. The overall vibe was still rather sedate and peaceful, which was exactly what I had hoped for.

 

This is a long way of saying yes to both of you.

 

As for the new ship names -- thank you for the laughs! You both nailed it! :')

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, but luxury, like style, are very personal choices. What I think is luxurious might not be what someone else thinks of as luxury, and what I think of as stylish might be considered by someone else to be decidedly unstylish. An exclusive brand doesn't make it a luxury brand, IMO, even though it might make it a desirable (and expensive) one. There are some people who want the feeling of exclusivity, and are willing to be fooled into thinking that it therefore must be luxurious. Or they're not fooled, and it is their definition of luxury, but it's not necessarily anyone else's definition of luxury. I don't agree that expense creates exclusivity which defines luxury, in spite of what some auto, clothing, and jewelry designers want to tell us.

Luxury is really a comparative thing. To an agrarian peasant in the 18th century a house with a flushing inside toilet was luxury.

Up until 1945, the mass of people had hardly any material goods to speak of. But these days everyone has a television, mobile phone or the latest gadget. Everyone has a house and can obtain exotic foods all year around. All these things in the past were luxuries because they were rare and exclusive.

But now luxury is more a matter of degree rather than possessing a type of thing most others don’t have.

Exclusiveness is a factor, but not the only one. Cost is also another factor as is style.

Although the word luxury is used to define the cruise lines who offer what is regarded as the best product, it is not luxury alone that is the selling point.

Yes you get, better quality fixtures and fittings, better service and food all included in your fare. But as someone said above it’s the culture they are selling.

And it is about meeting like minded people, but only insofar as they enjoy the same shipboard culture as you. The idea that everyone who likes one of the luxury cruise lines is somehow of one cast of mind is not really tenable.

Why do we like these lines? Because they have all inclusive fares, well appointed cabins and public spaces whilst providing haute cuisine. In addition, they attract interesting people, aren’t crowded, provide wonderful service, and are somewhat exclusive. Luxury is a combination of those things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How would Onslow be categorised?

 

 

as from 1996 there were quite a few Onslow style pax on the Vistafjord

 

to fill up the cabins Cunard did bargain the cruises up to 50 %

 

double drinks on the parties otherwise drinks bought ashore in the cabins:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a lot of good things in there, but I have to say all that talk about classism and racism is so cliched that it almost ruined your argument.

 

Hi Toryhere, yes, I hear what you are saying. At least I think I do. When you first started this thread, I recognized immediately the tone of threads I had been reading that bemoan the decline in quality of the luxury brands. I wasn't necessarily trying to make an argument, but rather note some observations. Within the space of a week, one poster cited non-European workers as evidence of a decline in quality, and another poster made a joke about dreading an ethnic group that might be boarding at the next port. In my experience as a reader, those generalizations about entire nationalities or ethnicities certainly did strike me as bigoted -- even if unintentionally so. Those posts surprised me, and they seemed germane to your initial query. I heartily agree that when folks go too lightly down the slope toward thought police, we've gone too far. The posts I'm citing seemed rather blatant to me, though.

 

But, as you say, we need not speak of that again :-)

 

For the record, I love the definition of luxury you posted in response to calliopecruiser!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you've pointed out, though, the vibe or culture of a ship or line isn't standard either, so it's hard to explain generally. I bet it even changes on long vs short voyages. Though Regent, Crystal, and SeaDream are all considered luxury lines, I bet there are pretty major differences in the culture between them. I tell people about the culture of the cruises I've been on (Crystal, transoceanic), but I wouldn't try to tell anyone about the culture of Silversea, Regent, or even Crystal on a port-intensive Med cruise.

 

So many good posts on this thread. I must agree that one can not discuss the "culture" of a cruise line without first sailing on them. Since the only luxury cruise lines we have sailed on are Regent and Silversea, when I discuss Crystal and/or Seabourn, I only discuss facts like suite size, dress codes, etc. I'll sometimes mention what I have read in reviews -- such as Crystal having a reputation for great shows and food but their officers do no interact with customers very much (last statement is heresay). And, yes, long vs. short cruises are different.

 

This is a delicate subject so I hope that all of us will be understanding if we post something that may sound a bit prejudicial. For instance, on our recent cruise (Regent), there were a large number of people from Italy that did not speak English (language being an important issue). This caused some issues on the cruise. There were also a fairly large group from Central America that did speak English. So, this was not about liking one group more than another but how they acted due to the language barrier.

 

Also, cultures are different. Without naming countries, it is perfectly fine to cut in front of someone in line in some cultures (and pushing ahead of you to get into the elevator and making sure they are first out). In one country (this one I'll name - China), according to management of a cruise ship sailing there exclusively, it is common for people to package up food and take it ashore and to take much more food than they could ever eat (and they typically do not spend money onboard the ship). On the recent cruise that I referenced, a group insisted on running to the bus for an excursion to get the front seats (that were clearly marked for handicapped individuals). This does not mean that everyone from that country will do the same.

 

One comment about Silversea....... we have sailed Silversea three times (think that I'm repeating myself) and do find the line too formal. Others may not find it to be that way.

 

Then we have people from mainstream cruise lines (using NCL as an example). Although I have yet to sail on NCL (will do May 30 - June 2). Photos of their ships have shown so much trash in the hallways (which is actually room service plates along with napkins, etc. being placed on the floor outside of the door (in narrow hallways without enough room for disabled persons to pass). Luxury passengers do not put their dirty plates on the floor outside of their suite. NCL cruisers walk plates/drinks back to their rooms (children do as well). I'm sure we an all identify with how difficult it is on a moving ship in moderate seas to walk a drink anywhere. In any event, NCL tried to stop this practice as it was making their ships dirty but passengers rebelled and they can still take food and drinks to their room (Note: All of the NCL information was from reading Cruise Critic when the CEO of the company changed). On luxury cruise lines, we may take a cookie back to ur suite but if we want a drink or food, we call room service.

 

Having worked in Human Resources for 20+ years, I know prejudice and racism when I see it and I am not either. However, I will not stick my head in the sand and pretend that all cultures are alike or that all people have the same sense of politeness as this is surely not the case. If those of on this board are only interested in being "PC", the issues cannot be addressed. It isn't correct to say that people from the U.S. are loud (but many of us are). It is not politically correct to say that all people from certain countries will cut in front of you but many fo them do as it is their culture.

 

Also, it is unlikely that some posters from different countries (the country doesn't matter this case) will agree on many of these issues (I've learned the after being married for a very long time to a Brit - we laugh about the differences but they are definitely there).

 

So, the above is so off topic. Trying to get back to the subject ........ In terms of a decline in quality of any cruise line, it is subjective. What one person thinks of as a decline, another sees as an improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The fact is the cruise industry changed quite a lot as did airlines ...

My first " business class" intercontinental in 1993 comparing to the product now - quite a difference !

I never did Sea Goddess - now Seadream - but nearly all luxury lines changed quite a lot

I am very homesick to the great days of Royal Viking and the original triplets of Seabourn .

Also most of the luxury lines had very friendly priced beverages and also for better wines when not inclusive in those days . ( ok the prices of better wines went up also esp for some French top wines )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...