Help visiting Europe (from US) w/someone who will not fly

There is a forum here on CC entitled "non-traditional cruising" that covers travel by freighter. ...

 

We are not allowed to mention travel agents here on CC, but if you google "freighter cruises" or "cargo ship cruises" you will find some. Some lines advertise directly, like Maris....

Many thanks for all the details about restrictions and differences, it helps me know where to place this on the research agenda. Still sounds worth checking out. I did not know till now that one could still "hop a freighter" (I can see it's not so casual as that sounds and needs reserving/paying, but trying to evoke the image that lingers from long ago youth.)

The strict dress code doesn’t apply to the buffet - style dining.

...

That sounds more like it.

board rules prevent any discussion or naming of TAs. you will need to conduct your research elsewhere.

Good to know, thanks for letting me know. I've no wish to violate the community standards or rules here.

I would CALL Cunard about doing the round trip, with the desired amount of time in Europe...But be sitting down when you get the pricing....

Just went to the "freighter and non-traditional cruise" forum, and it was "oak hill cruiser" who posted last on their experience taking a container ship from Houston to Europe. Note that they had to change their plans at least once, due to a change in schedule of the original ship.

thanks, that thread was quite enlightening on medical, insurance, MPCs, flexibility of dates, and ship tracking.

Pacific Princess 6/12/2019 to 6/30/2019 from Ft Lauderdale to Dover

Then either:

Sea Princess 7/9/2019 to 7/22/2019 from Dover to New York

OR

ms Rotterdam 7/13/2019 to 7/30/2019 from Rotterdam to Boston

Will this work?

I had a straight up hard nosed conversation with my Dad.

He refused to fly. Played it up that he wasn't scared, but he was.

 

Told him that he was the only barrier in place and was keeping mom from living out her dream of visiting Hawaii. Asked him if he really wanted to be that lasting barrier.

 

We flew to Hawaii a few months later.

There have been thousands of people who "could never fly", who when faced with hard facts, and perhaps some "tough love" got over it - and stopped limiting the options of others by refusing.

There are numerous programs which successfully get people over their fear of flying.

If someone refuses to even try such a program, those who accommodate their attitude are simply enablers - comparable to family members who accommodate alcoholism .

If someone refuses to even try such a program, those who accommodate their attitude are simply enablers - comparable to family members who accommodate alcoholism .

Hyperbole.

A phobia is not an addiction, and living with a phobia of flying is not detrimental (let alone dangerous) like living with an substance abuse problem. No one can't manage life with a fear of flying -- it may take more time and money, but that's it.

We all "enable" lots of things in our friends and family that we don't like, but aren't dangerous. That's OK, and it's part of allowing adults to make their own choices.

Hi, and thanks for any thoughts you have to offer.

 

I've a cousin who will not fly, but might be open to cruising back-and-forth from US to Europe via two one-way cruises. I identified a few (very few) possible one-way trips via cruisecritics great search function, all offered by MSC.

 

I want to get him on the ground in a European city or two for a week or so. This means that cruises like the round trips offered by Cunard are of no interest to me.

 

But--I don't really know anything about cruises except they cost a lot more than flying. :(I'm looking for your creative ideas, or to be told that there are precious few alternatives, and I've already found them.

 

At the moment all I can see to do is to book 2 one-way cruises: a) US to Europe and b) Europe to US.

 

What am I missing?

I would love to be able to do that but that would require asking CC members for donations:):)

Pacific Princess 6/12/2019 to 6/30/2019 from Ft Lauderdale to Dover...

Sea Princess 7/9/2019 to 7/22/2019 from Dover to New York...OR

ms Rotterdam 7/13/2019 to 7/30/2019 from Rotterdam to Boston...Will this work?

Probably not, but thanks for finding a good return match.

Hyperbole.

 

A phobia is not an addiction, and living with a phobia of flying is not detrimental (let alone dangerous) like living with an substance abuse problem. No one can't manage life with a fear of flying -- it may take more time and money, but that's it.

 

 

We all "enable" lots of things in our friends and family that we don't like, but aren't dangerous. That's OK, and it's part of allowing adults to make their own choices.

The large number of people who have overcome their strong reluctance to fly indicates that it is not by any means always genuine phobia. Sure, in some cases it is - but failing to explore the possibility, while often the initial impulse, does not make sense.

Yes, adults should be allowed to make their own choices - but some adults make poor choices --- which caring friends and family also have the right to question.

The large number of people who have overcome their strong reluctance to fly indicates that it is not by any means always genuine phobia. Sure, in some cases it is - but failing to explore the possibility, while often the initial impulse, does not make sense.

 

Why doesn't it make sense? If someone isn't bothered by it, why should they be made to feel they should try to overcome it? If someone is afraid of dogs, lives without dogs, is happy to not have dogs in his home, and is comfortable crossing the street to avoid dogs......why should they feel the need (or why should others try and convince them) to try to overcome that fear? If that person isn't feeling pain from that fear, it makes perfect sense to me that they wouldn't want to rock that boat. To them it ain't broke, so I don't think it's wrong that they don't feel a need to fix it.

 

 

Yes, adults should be allowed to make their own choices - but some adults make poor choices --- which caring friends and family also have the right to question.

Question? Yes. Ask them to consider changing? Yes. Spell out consequences if they don't change? Sure. But continue to challenge and encourage them to change in spite of previous negative responses? No. Especially over something as benign as fear of flying (or fear of dogs).

See my answers in green, above

See my answers in green, above

Your "answers in green" are unassailable, as far as they go.

There is no "need" to overcome an irrational fear of anything - as long as it does no harm to others. But if, as some posters have noted, it imposes severe restrictions on others (not to mention limitations on ones own options) a person should seriously consider seriously addressing the matter.

As you have discovered; it’s much more efficient in terms of time and money to fly than to cruise. I agree with the others that if your cousin actually wants to take this trip, addressing their flying issues would potentially be a better long term solution. It actually sounds at this point that you want this trip more than your cousin does.

But if you both want to travel this way and view it as a once in a lifetime trip, in your shoes, I would wait until I had the time and money for a ‘world cruise’. Then it truly would be a once in a lifetime trip, as opposed to sitting down in a few years and plotting how to cruise to South America or Asia.

You have not all mentioned what your cousin’s issue with flying is. I will just mention that my BF was always against long flights due to his physical size and the discomfort he feels on airplanes. His dream vacation was to go to Hawaii and I talked him into booking it with a first class seat. The larger seat relieved all his flying issues and I now think I could probably get him on a flight to Europe, which he had previously ruled out.

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This is one of those issues of the person's own making. In a sense they have created their own prison where they "choose" to remain. Its like a Vegan saying, "I want to eat an all beef burger but am not willing to eat meat."

A lot of folks have a fear of flying just like some folks have a fear of even leaving their home. They either have to learn how to deal with the demons of their own making, or accept their limitations. The unfortunate fall out that impacts others in their close circle is just that, unfortunate. But these folks alone have the power to overcome their phobias..if they so choose.

We have a good friend who always looked forward to lots of international travel, once her husband retired from his senior executive job. But once he retired he suddenly decided he no longer wanted to fly or even travel. Our friend simply had to accept the limitations imposed by her husband. Such is life.

Hank

We have a good friend who always looked forward to lots of international travel, once her husband retired from his senior executive job. But once he retired he suddenly decided he no longer wanted to fly or even travel. Our friend simply had to accept the limitations imposed by her husband. Such is life.

 

Hank

That seems pretty selfish of the husband.

He HAD his travels. So now he is not willing to do so, even though she has not had the same opportunity.

I would think there would be some middle ground of no more than X trips per year or no more than Y days away from home.

This is one of those issues of the person's own making. In a sense they have created their own prison where they "choose" to remain. Its like a Vegan saying, "I want to eat an all beef burger but am not willing to eat meat."

 

A lot of folks have a fear of flying just like some folks have a fear of even leaving their home. They either have to learn how to deal with the demons of their own making, or accept their limitations. The unfortunate fall out that impacts others in their close circle is just that, unfortunate. But these folks alone have the power to overcome their phobias..if they so choose.

 

We have a good friend who always looked forward to lots of international travel, once her husband retired from his senior executive job. But once he retired he suddenly decided he no longer wanted to fly or even travel. Our friend simply had to accept the limitations imposed by her husband. Such is life.

 

Hank

I've observed situations which have worked out different ways: couples who do very little because one refuses to fly; and couples who finally emerge from limitation because the non-flier finally bites the bullet and winds up being the more avid traveller.

My brother-in-law claimed he had a "phobia" about flying - which severely limited his and my sister's travel options. Finally, his sister and I sat down with him and convinced him that it was unacceptable selfishness to not even try. He enrolled in a program which, starting with just sitting on a plane on the ground, and graduating to short flights, enabled him to overcome his fear. He spent the last twenty years of his life enjoying travel even more than my sister.

Sometimes verbal "inflation" needs to be addressed - when does a dislike, or initial fear, about flying become a "phobia"? Calling it a "phobia" seems to make intransigence more acceptable.

I mean, I understand that the phobia is not "hurting" anyone, but its still an irrational fear that should not hinder one's life and more importantly hinder others that would travel with that person.

Cruising is great and I am sure you can figure out a way. But instead of spending so much time and money on a cruise, spend that time and money on a program to get this person's irrational fear out. Just some simple programs that teach people how airplanes fly, and let people fly small airplanes do wonders.

When we are talking about major U.S. airlines, flying across the atlantic is safer than going on a cruise ship. Flying a major U.S. airline is one the safest things one can do in their life. Its a metal tube of safety. Its much safer than crossing the street, taking a shower, eating your favorite chicken wings, or driving in your car.

Its an absolute irrational fear that should be attempted to be overcome, not fed into by cruising across the atlantic and spending thousands more and weeks more in time.

But there is a way. But I would tell the person, get over the fear, or you won't come. Because that is a lot of money and time spent to accommodate such an irrational behavior.

This is one of those issues of the person's own making. In a sense they have created their own prison where they "choose" to remain. Its like a Vegan saying, "I want to eat an all beef burger but am not willing to eat meat."

 

A lot of folks have a fear of flying just like some folks have a fear of even leaving their home. They either have to learn how to deal with the demons of their own making, or accept their limitations. The unfortunate fall out that impacts others in their close circle is just that, unfortunate. But these folks alone have the power to overcome their phobias..if they so choose.

 

We have a good friend who always looked forward to lots of international travel, once her husband retired from his senior executive job. But once he retired he suddenly decided he no longer wanted to fly or even travel. Our friend simply had to accept the limitations imposed by her husband. Such is life.

 

Hank

This is not life. This is a case of your friend doing what her husband demanded or perhaps being unwilling or afraid to be an independent woman. Her answer to him should be - "I am going. You can either come w me and enjoy yourself or stay home. I don't care what you do but I am going".

DON

This is not life. This is a case of your friend doing what her husband demanded or perhaps being unwilling or afraid to be an independent woman. Her answer to him should be - "I am going. You can either come w me and enjoy yourself or stay home. I don't care what you do but I am going".

 

DON

An appropriate, although sadly expensive and lonely solution, to a selfish attitude. The unhappy fact is that a lot of drama-princes and drama-queens are not satisfied with simply claiming that they do not like something: to claim their right to absolute veto they say they are "allergic" to something they do not like, or have a "phobia" about something they do not want to do.

As you have discovered; it’s much more efficient in terms of time and money to fly than to cruise. I agree with the others that if your cousin actually wants to take this trip, addressing their flying issues would potentially be a better long term solution. It actually sounds at this point that you want this trip more than your cousin does.

 

But if you both want to travel this way and view it as a once in a lifetime trip, in your shoes, I would wait until I had the time and money for a ‘world cruise’.

You are perceptive--I have gone from being quite skeptical that I could enjoy a cruise to looking forward to taking one. But my cousin has shown no interest. I may have projected onto him my enthusiasm for exploring Europe, it wouldn't be entirely unheard of. :-)

He has understandable reasons not to fly and it's not for me to persuade him otherwise. While I'm disappointed he hasn't taken up the offer, it won't in the least keep me from revisiting Europe, or from taking a cruise sometime if I feel like it.

Your encouragement to dream large when it comes to once-in-a-lifetime adventures is well received. Perennially wise counsel.

I mean, I understand that the phobia is not "hurting" anyone, but its still an irrational fear that should not hinder one's life and more importantly hinder others that would travel with that person.

 

Cruising is great and I am sure you can figure out a way. But instead of spending so much time and money on a cruise, spend that time and money on a program to get this person's irrational fear out. Just some simple programs that teach people how airplanes fly, and let people fly small airplanes do wonders.

 

When we are talking about major U.S. airlines, flying across the atlantic is safer than going on a cruise ship. Flying a major U.S. airline is one the safest things one can do in their life. Its a metal tube of safety. Its much safer than crossing the street, taking a shower, eating your favorite chicken wings, or driving in your car.

 

Its an absolute irrational fear that should be attempted to be overcome, not fed into by cruising across the atlantic and spending thousands more and weeks more in time.

 

But there is a way. But I would tell the person, get over the fear, or you won't come. Because that is a lot of money and time spent to accommodate such an irrational behavior.

I agree with what you said except all the stats I’ve seen show cruising as the safest holiday vacation.

Another thought, sometimes people have no real interest in overcoming their fears. And until they WANT to do it for themselves, I fear it will never happen.

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I agree with what you said except all the stats I’ve seen show cruising as the safest holiday vacation.

Another thought, sometimes people have no real interest in overcoming their fears. And until they WANT to do it for themselves, I fear it will never happen.

 

 

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Alternatively, some people might be evolved enough to work on overcoming their fears ---- for someone else.

My son-in-law decided he absolutely wasn't going to fly anymore. He has suddenly developed an aversion to flying.We tried convincing him to no avail so we accommodated him on our last cruise with a MISERABLE 14 hour straight drive with a minimum of stops at fast food restaurant drive through windows. When we got home, the rest of the family planned the next cruise and let him know we were flying. He went into his "driving only" DEMAND....so instead of trying to convince him, we told him we have an aversion to road trips and we made the reservations without him.

Another option instead of the 7-day QM2 transatlantic is to book a longer transatlantic with another cruise line.

In April all of the major cruise lines Princess, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Holland American Line, NCL - re-position their ship to Europe.

You can often get some really terrific prices for a 10, 12, 15 or 17 day transatlantic from Florida or New York to Europe. Prices are often very affordable approx. $3,000 for two in a balcony cabin.

You would need several weeks to accomplish the transatlantic voyage and a return on the QM2. The great thing about these longer ta's is they include port stops in several European countries.

Jonathan