Muster issue - hope that Celebrity is reading

For those of us who have sailed many times and learned what to do the old fashioned way it's not a problem. For those who are new to cruising and may not know, it's a different story.

I still think it's useful to see how people would line up on the deck in relation to the lifeboats and actually see how to put on their life jackets. It's a lot easier to take it seriously when you actually do it. People are not as polite and quiet as they used to be and the last couple of times I've been appalled at the noise and inconsideration shown during the muster drill. Personally I think it's a disservice to new cruisers that could compromise their safety.

“Personally I think it's a disservice to new cruisers that could compromise their safety.”

Completely agree.

In all honesty I wish they would allow people who have cruised numerous times, say at least 5 cruises, to skip the drill. After 5 cruises you know how to navigate your way around any ship out there and how to find your muster location. You also know how to use the life vest. They dont even make you put them on anymore at muster anyways. I know they cant because of regulations but we can always dream :). The best part about muster is that once it's over your vacation has truly begun.

In all honesty I wish they would allow people who have cruised numerous times, say at least 5 cruises, to skip the drill. After 5 cruises you know how to navigate your way around any ship out there and how to find your muster location. You also know how to use the life vest. They dont even make you put them on anymore at muster anyways. I know they cant because of regulations but we can always dream :). The best part about muster is that once it's over your vacation has truly begun.

What we believe is dumb is when doing a B2B cruise and having to do the muster drill again on the second leg.

Cannot believe what I am reading. The International Convention for the Safety At Life at Sea (aka SOLAS) governs maritime safety. If people wish to go against maritime law, perhaps you should not be cruising (or permitted to even board a cruise ship).

Just returned from our first Celebrity cruise and enjoyed it overall. The only reason for writing this is to say how terrible (and possibly dangerous) that the muster that we attended was. We have close to 50 cruises under our belts - almost all of them on premium-plus and luxury lines and have never experienced anything like this.

 

The lounge where it was held was full beyond capacity. Not only could we not sit down, we could barely stand -- we were like a room full of sardines. Could not see or hear much. Our biggest concern was the lack of air in the room. Someone did say that muster was taking longer than normal but that does not excuse the uncomfortability that Celebrity put their passengers through. A couple of people almost passed out (it was also extremely warm) and a few kind hearted people gave up their seats for these people.

 

As we all know, muster is suppose to be about safety but there was nothing safe about the environment where the muster for many of us was held. The room was definitely over capacity and difficult to breathe in.

Same thing happened to me and my mom onboard Silhouette in 2013. We were stuffed into the photo area and being short, we ended up crushed into a corner. Never saw the movie. Sorry to hear X is still doing it this way.

Sue

And the same thing happened to us on Solstice last year. Jammed into the photo gallery like sardines. Impossible to see or hear anything, and it got so hot and stuffy I almost passed out. Luckily we've cruised enough to have a fair idea what to do and not to do but newbies wouldn't have had a clue what was happening.

In all honesty I wish they would allow people who have cruised numerous times, say at least 5 cruises, to skip the drill. After 5 cruises you know how to navigate your way around any ship out there and how to find your muster location. You also know how to use the life vest. They dont even make you put them on anymore at muster anyways. I know they cant because of regulations but we can always dream :). The best part about muster is that once it's over your vacation has truly begun.

For those that think that having cruised 5 times (probably on different ships) and know everything there is to know about the passenger muster (even given my three simple things to know), you are short changing the first of my "commandments" for muster:

1. Show up (know where the location is, and how to get there)

If you think you know "how to navigate around a ship", try this, and do it at every muster drill while you tune out the rest of the crowd around you:

Imagine yourself in a different location each drill (just as you might be during a real emergency), then place a fire somewhere on the ship. Next, do you know where the fire zone boundaries are on each deck (those fire doors that are in the passageways). Now, knowing that in an emergency security will stop anyone from entering the entire fire zone where the fire is, from the deck below the fire location all the way up to the uppermost deck, mentally plan your route from the location you set yourself in to your muster station, without going through the fire zone on the deck where the fire is, or any deck above, knowing that the fire zone extends all the way across the ship, port to starboard. If you can't do this, correctly, from any location on the ship, and with the fire in any location on the ship, then you haven't learned everything there is to know about muster.

This is the same exercise I give to the fire teams, medical teams, and other crew first responders during training on cruise ships, and in their cases, if they show up having gone through the fire, I declare them "dead" and make their fellow responders have to retrieve their "bodies".

Sorry, been going to 26 fire and boat drills every year for 43 years, and I make it a point to learn something new every time, and to make every drill a unique experience.

It isn't the rules that have changed, it is the ships. Outdoor muster, as close to the lifeboat as possible is still the preferred muster location per SOLAS. What has changed is that the ships are designing more revenue generating space (interior) at the expense of non-revenue space (promenade deck), so that the promenade deck no longer has the space to accommodate the muster.

 

And you are somewhat correct that the muster is a drill for the crew as well, though there typically aren't any "surprises", it is just that this is the only time the crew can actually learn how to "herd cats" (the unruly and uncooperative passengers).

Ok. But M-class ship are old (and previously muster drill were done outside and now inside, on the same ship (Celebrity Infinity). So if there were not changes, I do not understand why they cannot do both (half inside, on larger venues, half outside).

The "surprised". I was expecting (I do not remember from where, maybe also not on cruises) that few officers put some unexpected item (staging a person passed out, blocking some fire doors, ...).

Ok. But M-class ship are old (and previously muster drill were done outside and now inside, on the same ship (Celebrity Infinity). So if there were not changes, I do not understand why they cannot do both (half inside, on larger venues, half outside).

 

The "surprised". I was expecting (I do not remember from where, maybe also not on cruises) that few officers put some unexpected item (staging a person passed out, blocking some fire doors, ...).

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Please provide your source for your comments in red. :confused: Not all muster stations are small, overcrowded and uncomfortable. Not all cruise lines do the muster drill inside.

One of the problem is that rules changed, I'm not an expert, but an observer: On older time we had to find our cabin, to find our life vest and then going outside at muster station, and after sail away. I do not remember so detailed if it was cruise line specific or not, but to me it now seems more a time (so rule) related.

The "fire/inside" part I do not know, and as other corrected, the SOLAS allow (and recommend) outside muster station. So disregard that part. Maybe it is just to be more weather independent (remember than now we may not have our baggage ready at muster drill time).

Ok. But M-class ship are old (and previously muster drill were done outside and now inside, on the same ship (Celebrity Infinity). So if there were not changes, I do not understand why they cannot do both (half inside, on larger venues, half outside).

 

The "surprised". I was expecting (I do not remember from where, maybe also not on cruises) that few officers put some unexpected item (staging a person passed out, blocking some fire doors, ...).

Very surprised, and the first I've ever heard of where a ship has changed muster stations during it's service life. The cost to do this is quite high (technical studies, regulatory approvals, then changing all signage and documentation). Were the ships significantly changed over the life (added cabins, etc)?

And many ships do use a mixture of inside and outdoor muster locations.

While those "surprises" are common for crew drills, I've not seen those done during passenger drills, since it would involve impacting untrained guests.

Just back from our 3rd Celebrity Cruise in three years and i don't really get the complaining, yes it's crowed and you may have to stand for 30 min. Is it unsafe no if it was they would not do a night where they jam hundreds of people together and put head phones on them and dance around. . No one likes the drill but it has to be done. I'm guessing the only way people will not complain is until they let you sit in your cabin the watch the video. Suck it up for a half hour then get a drink and enjoy your cruise. It's not men't to be mean but your starting a cruise what can be better.

Agree

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Very surprised, and the first I've ever heard of where a ship has changed muster stations during it's service life. The cost to do this is quite high (technical studies, regulatory approvals, then changing all signage and documentation). Were the ships significantly changed over the life (added cabins, etc)?

 

And many ships do use a mixture of inside and outdoor muster locations.

 

While those "surprises" are common for crew drills, I've not seen those done during passenger drills, since it would involve impacting untrained guests.

I think the change of muster stations on older ships may be down to the RCCL ethos. They have a real love of doing everything the same way, across all their ships, whenever possible. I’ve been told that their newer, huge ships like Anthem of the Seas (and maybe some of the slightly older ones, I’m not sure) do not have room for everyone to stand outside on the deck where the lifeboats would be accessed, so they have the drill indoors. They got approval to change the drill locations on older ships on at least two of their other lines, Celebrity and Azamara. There have been no significant changes to deck layout or passenger numbers on the two older Azamara ships, and the muster drill could still be held in its original location, but it’s been moved indoors.

One of the problem is that rules changed, I'm not an expert, but an observer: On older time we had to find our cabin, to find our life vest and then going outside at muster station, and after sail away. I do not remember so detailed if it was cruise line specific or not, but to me it now seems more a time (so rule) related.

 

The "fire/inside" part I do not know, and as other corrected, the SOLAS allow (and recommend) outside muster station. So disregard that part. Maybe it is just to be more weather independent (remember than now we may not have our baggage ready at muster drill time).

A couple requirements have changed over the years. I disagree that rules have changed concerning the muster drill. I also remember the days when the requirement was to lug the life vest along to the muster drill, stand outside and put the life vest on. No matter the cruise line. RC still requires (at least the RC ships we've sailed on) you to stand outside at the life boats. Wish RC would change that. Glad we don't anymore on Celebrity. Though bringing the life vests to muster did provided go entertainment when some would blow the whistle that was attached to the life vest. Yuck!

A couple requirements have changed over the years. I disagree that rules have changed concerning the muster drill. I also remember the days when the requirement was to lug the life vest along to the muster drill, stand outside and put the life vest on. No matter the cruise line. RC still requires (at least the RC ships we've sailed on) you to stand outside at the life boats. Wish RC would change that. Glad we don't anymore on Celebrity. Though bringing the life vests to muster did provided go entertainment when some would blow the whistle that was attached to the life vest. Yuck!

The legal requirement to bring the life jacket to muster was eliminated decades (30-40 years) ago, such that as long as there was a demonstration on how to don it, or there was an instructional video available to watch on the TV at any time, that fulfilled the requirement. It was, and is, a company decision whether to require life jackets at drill or not.

The legal requirement to bring the life jacket to muster was eliminated decades (30-40 years) ago, such that as long as there was a demonstration on how to don it, or there was an instructional video available to watch on the TV at any time, that fulfilled the requirement. It was, and is, a company decision whether to require life jackets at drill or not.

Agree and were glad the cruise lines we sail with no longer require the life vest to be brought along to the muster drill.

For those that think that having cruised 5 times (probably on different ships) and know everything there is to know about the passenger muster (even given my three simple things to know), you are short changing the first of my "commandments" for muster:

 

1. Show up (know where the location is, and how to get there)

If you think you know "how to navigate around a ship", try this, and do it at every muster drill while you tune out the rest of the crowd around you:

Imagine yourself in a different location each drill (just as you might be during a real emergency), then place a fire somewhere on the ship. Next, do you know where the fire zone boundaries are on each deck (those fire doors that are in the passageways). Now, knowing that in an emergency security will stop anyone from entering the entire fire zone where the fire is, from the deck below the fire location all the way up to the uppermost deck, mentally plan your route from the location you set yourself in to your muster station, without going through the fire zone on the deck where the fire is, or any deck above, knowing that the fire zone extends all the way across the ship, port to starboard. If you can't do this, correctly, from any location on the ship, and with the fire in any location on the ship, then you haven't learned everything there is to know about muster.

This is the same exercise I give to the fire teams, medical teams, and other crew first responders during training on cruise ships, and in their cases, if they show up having gone through the fire, I declare them "dead" and make their fellow responders have to retrieve their "bodies".

Sorry, been going to 26 fire and boat drills every year for 43 years, and I make it a point to learn something new every time, and to make every drill a unique experience.

Not trying to get in an argument over this. But just about every modern cruise ship out there can be navigated bow to stern on the bottom 2 or 3 passenger decks and top 2 or 3 passenger decks without the passenger deck choke points. Are there some minor differences out there? Yep. And as I said the muster cannot be skipped anyways by law so it is a worthless to argue about it. But the ships themselves are much more similar than different.

I think it’s a matter of courtesy as well as self-interest to pay attention at every muster drill. If the crew are going to take their valuable time to to give us this information, we’re going to pay attention, even if we’ve heard it all before. And every once in a while, they do change things. First it was the life jackets, now it’s the location. If we’d been excused after the first five drills, we’d have had to figure out the change in muster stations on our own. I can’t say that I love the new video, because I’d prefer something short and to the point, but I watch it politely anyway, or least remain still and silent while it’s playing since I usually can’t see it. If we have a Cruise Director who takes the opportunity to add a long, rambling announcement about the evening’s entertainment, (and we’ve had a few of those), I do start to lose patience.

Maybe simple stuff like setting up a big fan in the room, handing out water and editing the presentation to the necessary requirements would be a big help!

Also handing out a what do to in an emergency card you can keep with your sea pass would be helpful or even printing that on the back of the seapass???

As well, I do not think many would remember how 'hot' it was when trying to dis-embark during an actual emergency, the object is to evacuate as quickly as possible, with organization.

In the balance, this is a part of cruising.

If this, cramped, crowded, in a hot room 'without' proper ventilation (ostensibly) it is quite possible that one needs to post on other forums to find out how their muster drills are conducted and select the better one for them.

Just my thought and opine on it all. This in no way is to cast dispersions/diminish the personal thoughts/feelings on those dismayed by how or where their particular drills were held. Just a recommendation as to how they might move forward in order to avoid the situation again on X sailings.

Some things in this regards can be passenger controlled, some cannot.

Hopefully, the procedures will not need to be tested or needed. We all may know someone who may be dis-oriented during an actual emergency. Just in case, be prepared. If nothing else, one will know/remember where their assembly place is, hopefully it would not be too hot and crowded if actually needed to go there to evacuate.

bon voyage

Just returned from our first Celebrity cruise and enjoyed it overall. The only reason for writing this is to say how terrible (and possibly dangerous) that the muster that we attended was. We have close to 50 cruises under our belts - almost all of them on premium-plus and luxury lines and have never experienced anything like this.

 

The lounge where it was held was full beyond capacity. Not only could we not sit down, we could barely stand -- we were like a room full of sardines. Could not see or hear much. Our biggest concern was the lack of air in the room. Someone did say that muster was taking longer than normal but that does not excuse the uncomfortability that Celebrity put their passengers through. A couple of people almost passed out (it was also extremely warm) and a few kind hearted people gave up their seats for these people.

 

As we all know, muster is suppose to be about safety but there was nothing safe about the environment where the muster for many of us was held. The room was definitely over capacity and difficult to breathe in.

Did you file a complaint about your concerns with the muster drill with GR or the HD while onboard the Infinity? Instead of "hoping that Celebrity is reading" CC.

I was also in the same muster station on the sept 2nd cruise on Infinity. Also my station was located in the rendezvous lounge as well. My mom and I headed from our staterooms as soon as the announcement was made to go to muster, however, when we arrived, like said before, there was no available space to sit, and it was uncomfortable in terms of temperature and space. Overall it lasted about 45 mins. My mom having hip issues, sat on a coffee table and I stood. Our last cruise was handled much better but we were also in the theater last time, so plenty of seats. Overall it seemed to take the crew a few days to get in the groove, we had several experiences with things not meeting our expectations such as grumpy crew, disorganization and an unwelcoming feel from staff. I am still writing up my review and will post in time. Overall service started poorly such as the muster, but, some areas recovered by the end of the trip so we ended on a positive note.

I was also in the same muster station on the sept 2nd cruise on Infinity. Also my station was located in the rendezvous lounge as well. My mom and I headed from our staterooms as soon as the announcement was made to go to muster, however, when we arrived, like said before, there was no available space to sit, and it was uncomfortable in terms of temperature and space. Overall it lasted about 45 mins. My mom having hip issues, sat on a coffee table and I stood. Our last cruise was handled much better but we were also in the theater last time, so plenty of seats. Overall it seemed to take the crew a few days to get in the groove, we had several experiences with things not meeting our expectations such as grumpy crew, disorganization and an unwelcoming feel from staff. I am still writing up my review and will post in time. Overall service started poorly such as the muster, but, some areas recovered by the end of the trip so we ended on a positive note.

Thank you so much for confirming our experience on the Infinity. It did feel like forever -- standing there - not being able to see or hear anything and did not realize that it was 45 minutes. Bringing up the fact that people like your mom have issues standing is also something that Celebrity needs to address.

Bo 1953 - Yes - it would be crowded and could be hot in the case of an emergency but please consider the fact that if people cannot (or will not) pay attention to what the procedure is for disembarking the ship in an emergency, it could cost lives. Everyone needs to be able to see the hear in whatever venue the muster is held in. As an aside, I have read many of your posts and appreciate them -- they are balanced and well thought out.

hcat - good idea. If people attend muster and have the information with the to remind themselves of the procedures it would be very positive.

davekathy - no idea why you are continuing to bash me on this thread. The thread is meant to be helpful and these are our experiences and feelings -- it is not necessary to agree with me but being snarky isn't going to help anyone.

As I have said earlier in this thread, we have taken around 38 cruises on 5 different cruise lines (mainstream, premium, premium plus and luxury) so we have a good idea of how muster works on different size ships. Based on what I've read on this thread, our experience with muster on Celebrity is not unusual. I am surprised that SOLAS hasn't forced Celebrity to fix this issue. If the ship is older (like Infinity) and it is impossible to do muster for 2,000 passengers, it needs to be done in two parts so that everyone can see and hear and sit down if they need to do so.

.........davekathy - no idea why you are continuing to bash me on this thread. The thread is meant to be helpful and these are our experiences and feelings -- it is not necessary to agree with me but being snarky isn't going to help anyone. ........

travelcat2, I was a bit surprised by your reaction to DaveKathy’s posts because I didn’t see any snarky or bashing posts by them. Maybe I’m getting desentisitized of what those types of posts are, but in defense of DaveKathy, they didn’t post any of those. DaveKathy early on said something about your experience being a bummer and felt for you, and the latest asked a legit question: did you directly address Celebrity with your issue? That’s much more affective to do it when it occurs, then posting here. Celebrity also has postcruise evaluations that they put a great deal of weight on and is an excellent tool to voice such issues.

It’s fine to post here for all of us to commiserate or whatever, but if the point was to address Celebrity, as stated by the title, its best to do that as DaveKathy pointed out.

Personally, I thought you’d take issue with my post saying that I understood this is an issue for those with health/age issues, but the host of other posts complaining I thought was a bit much. A short time of being in a crowded stufffy room that is experienced in a few of the muster stations isn’t a big deal for most. But Celebrity needs to address it for those with issues.

Den