Service charge increase fleetwide

I really could not care less. It is not my job to audit NCL's books.

Just a question. So, then by the statement you made, you don't care if the workers get the pay they deserve? Just a question.

Just a question. So, then by the statement you made, you don't care if the workers get the pay they deserve? Just a question.

Game. Set. Match.

Game. Set. Match.

:)

How the heck are you?;)

If you have ever read any of Chengkp75's post, you would know this is totally incorrect. Their guaranteed salary is $614 per month (Maritime Labor Convention (MLC 2006).

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crewmember is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, andDSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSCis reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

"Katie Collins, Associate Editor withCruiseShipCareers.com, a cruise line recruiting resource. (A notable exception is Norwegian's Pride of America, a U.S.-flagged ship sailing in Hawaii, where the state and federal laws govern employment and minimum wage, and crew members must be U.S. citizens.)

For customer-facing positions, gratuities usually come into play. "Gratuities make up most of the compensation for crew in the housekeeping and food and beverage departments," says Collins. The base wage is usually low -- sometimes as little as $2 a day -- but income from tips can represent as much as 95 percent of the take-home total."

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=261

So when there is a free gratuity as a perk, do you really think the cruise line (any) pays out of their own pockets?

The full amount? Just wondering........... ---End Quote---

I really could not care less. It is not my job to audit NCL's books.

***************

This conversation goes on ad nauseum.... but that's okay.

Consider all the lurkers that don't participate.

Does anyone know if it just US prices going up? We have a 13night cruise Miami to London booked via an Australia TA. According to NCL website a discretionary charge of A$18.81 AUD per person per day for all guests 3 years or older will automatically be added to your onboard account.

 

That's USD$14.48 per day per person. Balcony Cabin, 3 people.

 

No email from NCL or our TA re an increase.

In Australia the DSC is added to the reservation at the time of booking, hence pre-paid and will not increase. That is, unless you specifically asked for it not to be included.

As long as the stiffs that claim they pay cash instead remove the service charge it will continue to go up to offset.

 

Really cannot wait until it becomes mandatory - no exception

This. Just add it to the cruise fare or go back to cash tipping each meal and each morning for room stewards. The former is more convenient, but the latter will produce better service.

So when there is a free gratuity as a perk, do you really think the cruise line (any) pays out of their own pockets? The full amount? Just wondering...........

Yes.

Yea, no. What company do you know pays their employees sub-par wages and expects the customer to make up the difference? Non, other than restaurants and apparently cruise ships. I get what you are saying about who actually is paying for employee's wages; that is business 101. That being said, what other company pays employees pennies on the dollar and expects the rest to be paid in a surcharge to the customer?

Well you obviously already mentioned restaurants. That would include bars/bartenders. There are plenty of others that rely on tips. Hair salons, nail salons, Maid services, Butlers etc. and like I already mentioned, you are gonna pay the same no matter if the company included it in the fare or has a separate line item for it.

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Originally posted by KateQ22003 Yea, no.

What company do you know pays their employees sub-par wages and expects the customer to make up the difference?

Non, other than restaurants and apparently cruise ships.

Me thinks the upper-echelon of a corporation expects customers to make up the difference.

As a logistics/expeditor for a international corporation, (not to mention GE) ,

I would have been fired for even accepting doughnuts from a vendor.

...even than more was offered.

It's complicated.

So when there is a free gratuity as a perk, do you really think the cruise line (any) pays out of their own pockets?

The full amount? Just wondering........... ---End Quote---

I really could not care less. It is not my job to audit NCL's books.

***************

This conversation goes on ad nauseum.... but that's okay.

Consider all the lurkers that don't participate.

Haha, not a lurker. I usually just do roll calls.

I usually don't open these threads because my blood pressure can only go so high!! But, this week I got the email about the increase and I must be in a self punishing mood because I have made commits on 2 controversial threads. I should know better.

I haven't cruised with NCL as much or as far back as with other lines and back when envelopes were the norm. Did NCL ever have the envelopes method so that the staff would be recognized by the passgeners?

I've been a trusting passgener while sailing NCL with the daily add ot the account, but with the concerns of others and the outright claims that the DSC is being misdirected by NCL is troubling to me.

I've never ever not used an envelope when they were the norm, or eliminated a daily account charge for the Team on any line.

Am I being a sucker with continuing to acquiesce to this practice while on an NCL ship?:o

Just a question. So, then by the statement you made, you don't care if the workers get the pay they deserve? Just a question.

Not even close to what I said. I do not care at all whether their pay comes from the cruise fare, the taxes, the port fees, the DSC, or anywhere else. In fact I really do not care how much they get paid, just as I do not care how much you get paid. That is between you and your employer and them and theirs. Noting had been said or done that even slightly indicates that the DSC is not being spent in accordance with what is described on the NCL web site so I have absolutely no reason to question whether or not it is. It surely is not worth me spending any of my vacation time fretting over a whopping 50¢ per day.

Not even close to what I said. I do not care at all whether their pay comes from the cruise fare, the taxes, the port fees, the DSC, or anywhere else. In fact I really do not care how much they get paid, just as I do not care how much you get paid. That is between you and your employer and them and theirs. Noting had been said or done that even slightly indicates that the DSC is not being spent in accordance with what is described on the NCL web site so I have absolutely no reason to question whether or not it is. It surely is not worth me spending any of my vacation time fretting over a whopping 50¢ per day.

There are many people who are careful about who they donate to. For example, many of the envelopes that come in the mail or telemarketers that call you are groups that take your money and lead you to believe that they are collecting it for 'the needy' when in fact they are masters of illusion.

There are many people who are careful about who they donate to. For example, many of the envelopes that come in the mail or telemarketers that call you are groups that take your money and lead you to believe that they are collecting it for 'the needy' when in fact they are masters of illusion.

That would be relevant except for the fact we are not talking about donations of any sort, let alone unsolicited scam artist mailings that have nothing to do with paying for a service you are receiving.

I need to move on. After surfing through the site for a bit, I see this is one of those endless loop topics. Thanks for the entertainment. BTW I still do not care one iota how the DSC, cruise fare, port fees and taxes, or any other cost associated with the cruise is distributed. As long as I know the total cost of my cruise and that amount is something I am willing to pay for a cruise I am OK.

May be entertaining for you but for others it’s information to put to good use.

I’m sure though, that you don’t care. No one is asking you to either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes.

Really .... That should make for an interesting chat with the IRS and local tax authorities.

Lets stop arguing about who pays what and do what the Europeans and Brits do ( OK I know we are still in EU just).

Make the cruise line pay a living wage based on the ports its sails from.

All UK resident cruise staff if the ship is sailing form thr UK have to be paid UK living wage.

Use you energy to lobby the governments. Why should these poor people work for what is in effect slave money. I do not care where on the ship they are they make my holiday and deserve part of the group tip.

Would you leave your family for 9 months I doubt it. So lobby for proper pay. The cruise lines will squeal as would tier margins.

Lets stop arguing about who pays what and do what the Europeans and Brits do ( OK I know we are still in EU just).

 

Make the cruise line pay a living wage based on the ports its sails from.

 

All UK resident cruise staff if the ship is sailing form thr UK have to be paid UK living wage.

 

Use you energy to lobby the governments. Why should these poor people work for what is in effect slave money. I do not care where on the ship they are they make my holiday and deserve part of the group tip.

 

Would you leave your family for 9 months I doubt it. So lobby for proper pay. The cruise lines will squeal as would tier margins.

If the NCL and the other cruise lines were paying slave like wages they would not have any employees.

Especially many who spend years working for them.

Many people fail to recognize that the cruise staff has virtually no expenses during their contract. Therefore trying to compare their salary to those on land with transportation, fuel, insurance, housing, utilities etc. is pointless.

Most cruise staff can save more $ in a year than your average person working on land making 5 times as much.

It simply ridiculous that people try speculate where the DSC goes or try and dispute what the cruise lines say without one iota of proof.

The envelope system is gone because of the free style on NCL - you may think you are doing the right thing handing a server cash - but what about the 20 other servers that are working just as hard on their shifts at the buffet, and do not serve a “cash tipper” during their dinner service rotations just the normal folk who leave the DSC in place?

So all those of us who want tips removed and embedded into the fare are pro the workers conditions. Those who want dsc to remain but whinge about people removing them are hurting the crew. I will never understand why people want tips to remain, just to make yourself feel special

Actually, you're not pro crew. You ASSUME the crew gets your gratuities but as several have already pointed out here, that is not the case. And what is wrong with giving cash directly to your room steward or butler or waiter? You know they are getting it directly. Just be discrete about it.

So, you have the drink package wherein you have already paid the DSC as part of that price. You have the dining package where again, you have already paid the DSC. Now NCL wants to charge you again for those costs. I always prefer to tip directly when I have the choice. Great room steward equals good tip. Bad, not so much. We will not eat in the MDR at all with the dining package, so why pay for service never received? Bartenders on their game always get extra and same with great waiters. Make sure it goes in THEIR pocket and not the corporation's.

Short story. On a 7 day Mediterranean a couple years ago we tipped our steward directly several hundred dollars. He practically broke down in tears and told us this would mean so much to his family. He did a good job and we were happy to see the money go directly to him.

That $614 is for what time period? I can't believe that salaries are that low.

If a member of the ITF works a 40 hour work week they are guaranteed a minimum wage of $614 for the month. The federal US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour or about $1,256 per month. However, seafarers have free food, lodging, and health care, and don't have to worry about having a car to get to work (or paying for mass transit). It's not as bad a deal as it looks when you consider the net/net. It becomes an even better deal when you consider the overtime they get for hours over 40 per week which is paid at 1.25% of the normal rate.

For the Filipinos that NCL hires that minimum wage is significantly higher than the minimum wage in their home country which is an annual amount equal to about $2,053 USD or $171 per month. $614 is a lot more than $171. And, the Philippines has the 75th highest minimum wage in the world out of 197 countries with a minimum.

If you search out the videos on YouTube made by cruise ship workers, even ones no longer working on the ships, you get a very different story than our news media breathless "sweeps week" reports on working conditions. Typically, a fresh young reporter that just graduated from college is sent out to work for a cruise line and reports how horrible it is; gee, the food isn't even as good as what his college had! And they have to work more than 8 hours a day. And then they report the $50 wage they read about in their "research". It gets viewers / clicks and attention, but it is simply no longer true.

Here's one video where an above-minimum wage worker that I think is in the Philippines lists "pay" as one of the benefits of working on a cruise ship, where he can earn about three times what he earns at home (starting at 1:03 in the video):

Here's the

In the old days, ship workers did indeed earn about $50 a month plus tips, but that changed with the international agreements and the ITF Seafarers union. In their article on the Dark Side of the Cruise Industry they mention this old practice, and also say this about their workers in the cruise industry:

The ITF has developed a cruise ship collective agreement for FOC ["flag of convenience"] vessels, covering conditions of employment, wages and benefits, and which guarantees crew a certain wage each month. For example, a pastry cook would get US$587 guaranteed total per month, and a room steward US$739. It also regulates death and disability benefit, sickness, working hours, and vacation time.

 

Well-trained ITF Inspectors also visit cruise ships to offer trade union services to any crew members who request help, for example to those who have not been paid their wages, or have been unfairly dismissed. In some ports the ITF may recommend no action, in others crews may be told that more time is needed to prepare action. However, before seafarers do anything, they should first talk to the ITF.

I would also be interested to know if this figure is from the one US flagged ship (PRIDE OF AMERICA) or the foreign flagged NCL ships? They have a completely different salary arrangement. The US flagged ship has to employee a certain percentage of US citizens and meet certain US labor laws. The foreign flagged ships don't. I'm guessing he worked on PRIDE OF AMERICA.

Nope, it is for every ship that is signatory to the ITF agreement. You can see the minimum here and read about how the ITF organized and changed the conditions when the $50 per month was the norm in this article, and to see the ships the ITF has agreements with go to this page and click "Find a Vessel" and enter "Norwegian" in the search bar.

I don't doubt it was true at one time, but all NCL workers are earning significantly more than the "$50 a month" that people quote.

I will take Chengkp75's information over any one else here simply because he has always been able to disabuse me of my preconceptions based on his recent experience.

So when there is a free gratuity as a perk, do you really think the cruise line (any) pays out of their own pockets? The full amount? Just wondering...........

The workers get paid. Do you think they get paid more when the ship is full, or less when it sails half empty? Do you think they don't get paid when they are helping for a week-long dry dock? They have a contract. They are paid according to a union agreement with the ship.

Even when tipped crew earned a salary of $50 a month, they took home significantly more as they received 100% of the tips they earned. I honestly don’t know if they are better off with the system today or not? Regardless it’s still cheap labor which is why cruise lines source these crew from 3rd world countries. Yes it is more than they make at home but very low by western standards with long hours and little time off. I am glad to see conditions getting better and cruise lines treating crew with far more dignity and respect. One thing is for certain, low crew wages keep cruise prices relatively cheap. As I mentioned earlier, just have a look at American Cruise Line prices or American Queen Steamboat Co to compare a US built, operated, and crewed vessel vs a FOC. Huge difference.