Rise in Gratuities

Having been involved over the years with a number of group forums I have seen how people who post on the forums know & care what they are talking about or believe they are helping others but can tend to forget that they are,probably,a very small percentage of the people who,in this case,take cruises.

By that I mean the same names are appearing time & again on a topic which the majority of believe themselves to be knowledgeable & because mainly of their cruise experience feel strongly about this item,if you take to number of people who actually take the cruises(whether that be Worldwide or just from the UK) surely the number involved in this discussion would be a very small percentage,the rest probably don't care/know enough about the topic to take the time to post on forums.

In that case do the numbers on these forums represent a big enough percentage of the travelling public to worry/pressure the cruise lines into doing anything?

Some assumptions are being made about why people choose certain cruises or cruise lines,for many I suspect that they just choose a cruise,perhaps by destinations,maybe price or maybe the time being convenient to suit their needs,I notice a lot of cruises being advertised at present with low deposits,maybe that is tempting some,or even just a travel agents recomendation,if you see what I am getting at I doubt that the majority of people that take a cruise this year will have taken the finer points that are discussed here into consideration.

I would imagine for many the first they know about the 'service charge' will be just before they sail or even later!

I suspect you are right about pax only finding out about the service charge very late in the day.

You are also absolutely right about the numbers, as I said above we are not a balanced or statistically valid group and probably not representative of the newer demographic of cruisers.

That said we still have an opinion and try to voice it.

I think they probably would take more notice if the same opinion is posted by many on Facebook. Personally I don't think anything will change though, they won't add it to the fares. They will just keep putting the autotip up as more and more cancel them.

We are only a very small group but the current poll is showing more people on here want to stop the autotip and tip ourselves than want to continue with the autotip. I think this trend will continue throughout the ships in the future.

My view is simple I will pay £7 per day if the service is good but less if it is not. I couldn't care really what happens to the money in the envelopes after I have given it

First thing is to flood P&O with questions, like can I just reduce this cost onboard, what happens if I remove it altogether, object to the price rise etc etc etc.

Let them know that customers are unhappy with the rise and do it from their website as a complaint.

P&Os service reward programme as always been discretionary and clearly states on their website that you can give more, less or remove it altogether. This was confirmed by P&O when I e-mailed them on receiving the e-mail about increase in charge for my future cruise. They confirmed that I can leave auto gratuity on and if wanted give extra in cash, reduce price to £6pppd or any price I want to or I am free to remove the auto gratuity completely. All of this can be done onboard during your cruise by visiting reception.

P&Os service reward programme as always been discretionary and clearly states on their website that you can give more, less or remove it altogether. This was confirmed by P&O when I e-mailed them on receiving the e-mail about increase in charge for my future cruise. They confirmed that I can leave auto gratuity on and if wanted give extra in cash, reduce price to £6pppd or any price I want to or I am free to remove the auto gratuity completely. All of this can be done onboard during your cruise by visiting reception.

I am sure you can, but we were looking at ways that we could get a voice heard and sending complaints etc is just one way, but I think would be effective if enough do it.

Yes, although I remove the autograts and tip with an envelope, I would much prefer the £7 pppd to be included in the fare with nothing else required. Then I could tip as I wanted to people that had served me well. That's how it used to be.

I have now had a reply from P&O in response to my specific questions regarding whether or not staff whom we choose to tip personally are under any obligation to hand them over. They are NOT required to hand cash tips in and may keep them.

It is the same regardless of whether the passenger has paid the service charge (and tips over and above) or reduces or removes the service charge altogether and pays directly. The staff you tip ARE allowed to keep that money, regardless.

This is consistent with answers to similar questions that I have posed to P&O over the years and from personal conversations I have had with several senior officers on different ships, so I am now taking this as fact.

Doubtless there will be some on here who claim otherwise, not least because the policy with other brands (including other Carnival brands) may be different, but those are the facts as they relate to P&O.

Of course, this doesn't address the issue as to whether we should pay the service charge or not, merely what happens to cash tips. I am still struggling with that one. I think that if we were Club dining, with the same waiters every night, I would now be very tempted to remove the service charge and tip personally but, as we use Freedom Dining, I feel that I should probably carry on paying the service charge. We also use the main dining room for breakfast and often at lunchtimes, so regardless of which evening dining arrangement we had, we would still have different waiters to the evenings and I simply cannot believe that anyone tips after every meal, especially as the ships are cash free environments. I feel that a consultation with Mrs Selbourne is in order!

I have now had a reply from P&O in response to my specific questions regarding whether or not staff whom we choose to tip personally are under any obligation to hand them over. They are NOT required to hand cash tips in and may keep them.

 

It is the same regardless of whether the passenger has paid the service charge (and tips over and above) or reduces or removes the service charge altogether and pays directly. The staff you tip ARE allowed to keep that money, regardless.

 

This is consistent with answers to similar questions that I have posed to P&O over the years and from personal conversations I have had with several senior officers on different ships, so I am now taking this as fact.

 

Doubtless there will be some on here who claim otherwise, not least because the policy with other brands (including other Carnival brands) may be different, but those are the facts as they relate to P&O.

 

Of course, this doesn't address the issue as to whether we should pay the service charge or not, merely what happens to cash tips. I am still struggling with that one. I think that if we were Club dining, with the same waiters every night, I would now be very tempted to remove the service charge and tip personally but, as we use Freedom Dining, I feel that I should probably carry on paying the service charge. We also use the main dining room for breakfast and often at lunchtimes, so regardless of which evening dining arrangement we had, we would still have different waiters to the evenings and I simply cannot believe that anyone tips after every meal, especially as the ships are cash free environments. I feel that a consultation with Mrs Selbourne is in order!

Thanks for taking the time, first to contact P&O and then to kindly let us know their response.

We always leave the autogratuities in place because the obc takes care of that for us but i always tip extra in cash to any crew member who has been particularly helpful towards us.

I asked P&O if we could reduce grats and as I expected they said 'yes' but I also asked if that would affect staff and they ignored that bit of my question.

Thanks Selbourne for taking the time to find the answers.

Just one question remains. If you remove the autotips and pay the staff in cash, does the staff still get their share of the autotips. If so, then they are getting paid twice.

Brian

Thank you very much Selbourne.

I, too, will post the response to my, similar, question.

After all, it is not unknown for the company to give different responses.

Thanks Selbourne for taking the time to find the answers.

 

Just one question remains. If you remove the autotips and pay the staff in cash, does the staff still get their share of the autotips. If so, then they are getting paid twice.

Brian

My suspicion is that the grats are paid as part of their wages and they get that, unless someone actually complains or offers a very low mark on questionnaire, and the only "tips" they get, when tips mean for exceptional service are the cash ones. We are used mostly to reduce the wages bill except for disciplinary purposes.

Sorry but you could e-mail P&O tomorrow with the same question and get a different answer which has happened to me on various issues. Also the last time I gave waiter and assistant waiter a cash tip in envelopes without even opening it the assistant waiter straight away in front of us gave it to the waiter so if they are allowed to keep cash tips why did he do this.

Sorry but you could e-mail P&O tomorrow with the same question and get a different answer which has happened to me on various issues. Also the last time I gave waiter and assistant waiter a cash tip in envelopes without even opening it the assistant waiter straight away in front of us gave it to the waiter so if they are allowed to keep cash tips why did he do this.

Maybe because waiters are double acts, and it would not be deemed culturally or morally right for an assistant waiter to keep it all. They’ll share it as per some formula we will never know.

Maybe because waiters are double acts, and it would not be deemed culturally or morally right for an assistant waiter to keep it all. They’ll share it as per some formula we will never know.

But why shouldnt he keep it, they were both given seperate tips in envelopes at the same time of the same amount but he didnt know what amount because he gave it to the waiter before opening and then the waiter put both envelopes in his pocket.

Maybe they could start with making the service charge unremovable.

Some of these marketing people are paid big salaries so maybe they should earn it by coming up with some solutions.

For a start that would be illegal, as it stands the charge is a voluntary one paid at the passengers discretion - something that many who are used to paying seem to overlook.

Sorry but you could e-mail P&O tomorrow with the same question and get a different answer which has happened to me on various issues. Also the last time I gave waiter and assistant waiter a cash tip in envelopes without even opening it the assistant waiter straight away in front of us gave it to the waiter so if they are allowed to keep cash tips why did he do this.

I suspect the same as GoosebearMum, that the Assistant Waiter is effectively in the employ of his boss, the waiter, and they have a system to share tips. Nothing more sinister than that.

I have asked the same or similar questions time and time again over the years of many different people at P&O and have always had the same answer. The staff CAN keep the cash tips. The reason I have had to ask so many times is because the disbelievers cast doubt in my mind. No more. The answer that I am consistently given I am happy to now take as fact.

Thanks Selbourne for taking the time to find the answers.

 

Just one question remains. If you remove the autotips and pay the staff in cash, does the staff still get their share of the autotips. If so, then they are getting paid twice.

Brian

I am not entirely sure about the answer to your specific question. Perhaps you could ask P&O and post the response, as I have done? However, in my case, I would personally not worry about whichever the outcome was. If their share is removed due to my service charge being removed they would still gain, as I currently always tip in addition to the service charge (which I pay) and if I did remove it I would add to this tip by at least the equivalent of their share of any removed service charge. And if any excellent staff member gets my tip in addition to any share, then they have earned it. But, I stress, I have always paid the full service charge, other than one Cruise where service was particularly poor.

So that makes me happy. We remove the autograts and tip the same amount between the cabin steward and our two waiters, plus an extra tip for the wine waiter if they are any good. Sorted for me.

Thank you Selbourne for that clarification. Armed with that information, we shall now make our decision about what to do with the auto grats - perhaps tempted to go for 50% reduction (to cover all incidental crew who serve us) and split the rest proportionally (another hot potato!!! what proportion for each? :confused:) between our cabin steward, waiter, asst waiter and smaller recognition to our wine waiter (knowing that they benefit from drinks purchases and spend a lesser time attending to us than the waiting staff). Food for thought!

We give an envelope to each staff member. Both waiters get an envelope from us, so does the wine waiter. I wouldn't give the whole amount to one waiter in case he didn't pass on to the other one. The last envelope goes to the Cabin Steward. I don't tip the Maitre d'it as some do. Can't see why I should.

I suspect the same as GoosebearMum, that the Assistant Waiter is effectively in the employ of his boss, the waiter, and they have a system to share tips. Nothing more sinister than that.

 

I have asked the same or similar questions time and time again over the years of many different people at P&O and have always had the same answer. The staff CAN keep the cash tips. The reason I have had to ask so many times is because the disbelievers cast doubt in my mind. No more. The answer that I am consistently given I am happy to now take as fact.

If a customer thinks they deserve a tip and give them cash its only right they should be able to keep it.

This all gets very confusing.

I think you need to look on the auto gratuities as a service charge which clearly a fair number of people are not paying and with the "big" increase even more people certainly won't pay particularly when you take into account the market that P&O are aiming for. P&O have decided that that the service charge is optional so its is entirely down to them.

Tipping for good service is a different matter and I will be removing the service charge and tipping for good service as I see fit regardless if that is difficult for me to do. I refuse to subsidise those who choose to remove the optional service charge.

Tipping for good service is a different matter and I will be removing the service charge and tipping for good service as I see fit regardless if that is difficult for me to do. I refuse to subsidise those who choose to remove the optional service charge.

Does that mean you are refusing to subsidies yourself.

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I have always paid the auto tips, but with the recent increase, I am rethinking what I will do on future cruises. It seems to me that the increases over the last 2 years are excessive, and my suspicion is that increasing numbers of cruisers are removing the auto tips, hence the increase. Eventually, so many cruisers will remove the auto tips, that P&O will have no option but to adopt the Australian policy of removing auto tips and increasing the fares accordingly.

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I have always paid the auto tips, but with the recent increase, I am rethinking what I will do on future cruises. It seems to me that the increases over the last 2 years are excessive, and my suspicion is that increasing numbers of cruisers are removing the auto tips, hence the increase. Eventually, so many cruisers will remove the auto tips, that P&O will have no option but to adopt the Australian policy of removing auto tips and increasing the fares accordingly.

 

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I would agree with your statement, it is going to happen.:cool: Service charge/Automatic Wage Subsidy (tips) included in cruise fare and not removable. Cruise fare rises.

Big Daddy Carnival is probably working on it now.