Is muster drill on Oasis realistic?

In all honesty "realistic" would be sometime completely unexpected - like the middle of the night. So even on the small ships, it is not truly "realistic".

Would you think that cameras that recognize faces would be sufficient to know where everyone is? Such tech is becoming off the shelf technology really fast, and the ships already have a zillion cameras installed.

 

In case of a real alarm, everyone could simply be sent to their cabin where the TV is automatically turned to a channel that explains what's happening and what they should do next. Everyone out of the way of the firefighters, and when needed, the TV would tell people when it's their turn to get to their lifeboat.

 

Even the drills feel a bit chaotic, with passengers confused about where they should be or what's happening at all. Adding 3 AM, people wearing life vests, screaming kids, a few who need a scooter, and general panic, the orderly mustering becomes a nightmare. The simple instruction "go to your room" must be familiar in any language.

In order to use the facial recognition, they'd need to know who they're looking for. Or are you advocating the cruise line tracks every passenger's location every minute.

You're making this way too complicated. The crew needs to account for every passenger. Does it make sense to you that the crew would have to go cabin by cabin to find out who's there, then double back to cabins if they don't have all their occupants? Or you have a number of locations with limited entry points so they can check in everyone?

Will some people panic during a muster? I'm sure. But even on the limited cruises I've been on, it seemed there were crew members about every 10 feet guiding people where they needed to go. I'm sure they can settle most problems.

In my opinion, this is information that should be emphasized during the muster drill. Perhaps spending a few minutes explaining just what a call to muster stations is intended to accomplish would be much more informative than the "wash your hands" video. At least, present this before the cute videos.

I second this notion. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of cruisers believe "go to your muster station" = "the ship is sinking" = "get your life jacket and get on a life boat". When in fact, as chief outlined, there are many more reasons the crew would like you to assemble at your muster station. I think explaining this a little more at the muster drill would help create less panic and chaos should the call come for passengers to assemble at their station.

I know there have been cases on RCI ships where the general alarm to muster has been sounded in a real emergency. The Nordic Empress and Grandeur of the Seas fires and the Monarch of the Seas grounding come to mind as examples. I do not recall reading anything about passengers panicking to any major level. The Monarch was even evacuated after the ship was intentionally grounded on a sand bar after hitting a reef, although I believe they used local tenders rather than the ship’s lifeboats. The case of the Costa Concordia was completely different in that the alarm was not sounded when it should have been, many passengers had not been to a muster drill yet, and what would appear to be gross ineptitude by some of the crew.

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You mean it’s not like this? [emoji23]

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...imagine in a real emergency being herded into a crowded low deck restaurant where exits from it seem minimal...

Just wanted to throw this out there since nobody else mentioned... There are also exits that are not obvious or hidden in normal use.

I have in the past 3 years been on 9 cruises. All different lines, with 4 being RCCL. Only the first one was done at the lifeboats. All others in a dining room or theater.

Here's a fun fact to think about.

Oasis class chips have 18 lifeboats which each have a capacity of 370 people (if you actually manage to reach that number). 6660 people in total, seems okay for the max load of 6296 passengers. But there are ~2400 crew also. Now you're at ~8700 people and boats for only 6660 (max).

So what about the rest? They get inflatable rafts and the pleasure of (literally) falling down an escape slide.

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I agree. We've never had to muster for real (besides the drills of course), and hope we don't ever have to, but I can imagine that a lot of passengers are going to be thinking that the ship is sinking if that muster call ever goes off.

 

Dan

Yep. Absolutely. Skip to about 2:30

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And that signal is not "abandon ship", it is fire and general emergency. When the "abandon ship" signal is sounded, the passengers will be long gone from the ship, and that is the signal for the crew to leave their emergency stations and report to their life raft stations.

Not to worry, no one will force you to book a cruise on any oasis class ship

You don't know my wife! been on 3 and already got 2 more booked! :D:D

And that signal is not "abandon ship", it is fire and general emergency. When the "abandon ship" signal is sounded, the passengers will be long gone from the ship, and that is the signal for the crew to leave their emergency stations and report to their life raft stations.

I have gained so much knowledge from your informative posts on this thread and others. You also made me laugh out loud today with your "Go Away" comment. I couldn't agree more !!:D

I know you won't be back to see this, but stop uttering absolute rubbish. This is for those here on CC that don't know your tendency to spout rubbish. Most ships do not "roll over" or list to the point that boats cannot be launched or "is underwater". Look at the Concordia, the most recent and obvious example, and for over two hours, the list of the vessel was less than 15%, or below the limit for launching lifeboats from either side. The list, and the eventual roll over was caused by the ship grounding a second time on the island of Giglio causing the free surface of the water in the engine room to move to the onshore side that is supported by the sea bottom.

 

Do you really think that a hundred years after the Titanic, that the international maritime industry would allow a ship to have only half enough lifeboats since "half the boats would not be usable". Go away.

As always, GOOD ANSWER.

And that signal is not "abandon ship", it is fire and general emergency. When the "abandon ship" signal is sounded, the passengers will be long gone from the ship, and that is the signal for the crew to leave their emergency stations and report to their life raft stations.

Some time ago you gave an excellent response to a post of mine regarding the Star Princess fire off Jamaica. Many who are not familiar with this occurrence may want to Google and read about how the captain handled this situation. We sailed with that Captain on Star Princess on her first cruise after being repaired from the fire.

I always enjoy your answers and have learned a lot from reading your posts. I even have one bookmarked. Keep up the good work.

I like how the life boats are positioned on Oasis at "walk in" level from the deck. Nice design.

I like how the life boats are positioned on Oasis at "walk in" level from the deck. Nice design.

Not done for passenger convenience, but to allow another deck of balcony cabins above the boats. This also places the boats outboard on the ship and more vulnerable to damage in heavy weather. Oasis damaged the first boat on each side on her maiden crossing, and this led to the addition of a "fairing" in front of the boats to deflect seas away from the boats.

Well, while the cruise line and the IMO stresses knowing how to don a lifejacket, and if you have to enter the water it is what will help save your life, if you are getting into a lifeboat, a lifejacket is useless, and in fact actually makes the boat even more crowded than it will be otherwise. And many ships do not have lifejackets in the cabin anymore, they are at the muster station.

 

As for panic among the passengers, remember that the muster drill is the only chance the crew, who would be directing the passengers to the muster stations and not to the boats, the drill is the only chance the crew have of actually dealing with hostile passengers. And if you think folks could run to "random lifeboats" and get into them and launch them, get real. Not only would you have no clue how to do it, but there would be multiple levels of crew and officers restraining you from going to the boats.

Thank you. The "random lifeboats" was in response to Gerif.

And if you and another 300 passengers are in cabins on decks above the fire in the same fire zone, you are in the danger zone (fire moves up), and the ventilation in the entire fire zone is secured, and the fire doors are closed. You then have to get these folks out of the danger zone and to a safe location. If a muster station is in the fire danger zone, then the crew will be directing passengers to the alternative muster station, and again, they are in one location, not hundreds of cabins. While you are mustering, crew are going through all the cabins checking for occupants, and then tagging the cabin as cleared.

Yes, I guess getting people back to their cabins when those are in the fire zone is not a good idea. :)But you'd only need to get 300 pax to a muster station while the rest of them has practiced going to their cabin a few times before. My cruise on Koningsdam and Silhouette still had the lifejackets in the cabin.

In order to use the facial recognition, they'd need to know who they're looking for. Or are you advocating the cruise line tracks every passenger's location every minute.

Well, not advocating. But I'm sure they already can for a percentage by using Wifi data, and it would surprise me if they aren't using that to extract patterns from passenger behaviour. "People who exit the theatre on port side will find a bar on their way to their room and order 10% more drinks". "John has visited the casino but didn't play. Send him an invite to the lottery." When the technology is cheap enough, on a ship already filled with cameras, I'm sure they will use that data. I have no illusions anymore about not being tracked 24/7. Stores recognize my phone and know I was there a year ago and bought new shoes. No way cruise lines are not going to use such technology (or already are).

Yes, I guess getting people back to their cabins when those are in the fire zone is not a good idea. :)But you'd only need to get 300 pax to a muster station while the rest of them has practiced going to their cabin a few times before. My cruise on Koningsdam and Silhouette still had the lifejackets in the cabin.

 

So, you train the crew to say, if your cabin is in fire zone 3, don't go back to your cabin? And the passengers say "what's fire zone 3?". And for each emergency this requirement changes? Nope, training and drills are about "muscle memory" and doing things in prescribed ways so that it can be accomplished almost without conscious thought. Yes, there are times when a muster station is not viable due to the emergency, and things have to change, and you do drill for these "alternative scenarios", but you are asking both the crew and the passengers to react differently to each and every emergency. And the ship will have extra lifejackets for those who could not go back to their cabins. Many emergency station bills require the crew who check cabins for occupants during passenger muster, to remove the lifejackets from the cabins as they find them, and when the section of cabins are cleared, the whole organization "folds" downwards towards the passenger muster stations bringing lifejackets.

 

 

 

Well, not advocating. But I'm sure they already can for a percentage by using Wifi data, and it would surprise me if they aren't using that to extract patterns from passenger behaviour. "People who exit the theatre on port side will find a bar on their way to their room and order 10% more drinks". "John has visited the casino but didn't play. Send him an invite to the lottery." When the technology is cheap enough, on a ship already filled with cameras, I'm sure they will use that data. I have no illusions anymore about not being tracked 24/7. Stores recognize my phone and know I was there a year ago and bought new shoes. No way cruise lines are not going to use such technology (or already are).

What you are describing is Princess' "Ocean Medallion" technology, and we've seen how well that works.

So, you train the crew to say, if your cabin is in fire zone 3, don't go back to your cabin? And the passengers say "what's fire zone 3?". And for each emergency this requirement changes? Nope, training and drills are about "muscle memory" and doing things in prescribed ways so that it can be accomplished almost without conscious thought. Yes, there are times when a muster station is not viable due to the emergency, and things have to change, and you do drill for these "alternative scenarios", but you are asking both the crew and the passengers to react differently to each and every emergency. And the ship will have extra lifejackets for those who could not go back to their cabins. Many emergency station bills require the crew who check cabins for occupants during passenger muster, to remove the lifejackets from the cabins as they find them, and when the section of cabins are cleared, the whole organization "folds" downwards towards the passenger muster stations bringing lifejackets.

The alternative scenario would be that the Captains says "everyone, go to your room unless told otherwise by the crew", and just 300 need to be told "you need to go to the MDR instead", which is also easy to find. All passengers have that muscle memory themselves because the first thing they did on the ship was to voluntarily check out their cabin and started eating as soon as possible.

Luckily I haven't heard the alarm except for drills, but it does feel a lot easier and comforting that the Captain tells me to simply go to my room which in turn would make it easier for the crew as well. While the movie made from passengers filming the Costa Concordia disaster shows a lot less panic than what I'd expect, the passengers were seeing land and may have thought that if the ship sank, they'd make it by swimming.

What you are describing is Princess' "Ocean Medallion" technology, and we've seen how well that works.

From the https://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/pre_cruise/ocean_medallion.jsp FAQ "Privacy Concerns?

All information provided before and during your cruise will be encrypted and is not stored on your Ocean Medallion. "

This is a prime example of a privacy concern addressed by answering a different question. Who cares what's stored on the device when the office has enough data to see me walking around the ship. As I said I don't think cruiselines couldn't care less about privacy, but for me this is proof enough that Princess wants to track you everywhere you go.

If I were the cruise line, I'd be interested in people sitting in a hot tub for hours, ordering drinks, and not visiting the toilet. 7 points less on your score as a guest people like to meet. Visiting the art auction, drinking champagne, and not buying a thing. 8 points off. Going to a specialty restaurant the last night instead of MDR, could be to avoid tipping. 6 points. Showing up at the Pursers' Desk for whatever reason: 2 points. Everyone still having 100/100 points: a better deal. Everyone with less than 50: you're on the no-cruise list and we don't need to explain as we're flagged in Panama.

I know HAL does this as part of their 3 step emergency process, where the first step is to have guests report to their cabins. This requires this decision to be made just that much earlier in the emergency, and I'm not convinced one way or the other on its efficacy. It still makes it far easier on crew to have the passengers in 7-8 locations than scattered around every part of the ship.

And the problem with your alternative scenario is that during one emergency, you tell 300 people to go to the MDR, when their muster station is a bar. The next time it is a different 300 going to the MDR. So, you are muddling the linkage between the muster station and associated boats. And, reading back to see how your cabin muster gets people to the lifeboats, you want to wait until things are so out of hand that the passengers need to leave the safety of the world's largest lifeboat, and then start collecting people from every cabin deck, and every area and getting them to the boats orderly? Sounds kind of like the Concordia. With the centralized muster stations you have large groups of passengers that can be divided up to go to the boats, as opposed to a stream of people coming down stairwells. And many officers are trained in crowd and crisis management, and are trained to look for "force multipliers" or passengers who show the characteristics of leaders and who can be deputized to assist the crew in handling large crowds.

Sorry, but there are people who study this for a living, and they have modeled crowd and crisis management paradigm software that has been shown to be very accurate in determining how people react to emergencies, and where you would find the bottlenecks, and in the worst case, where you would find the bodies. The whole emergency procedures for ships are based on these studies, and I think that actual, historical data provides a better basis for designing a passenger muster procedure than any "feeling" that a different way may evoke less panic.

I know HAL does this as part of their 3 step emergency process, where the first step is to have guests report to their cabins. This requires this decision to be made just that much earlier in the emergency, and I'm not convinced one way or the other on its efficacy. It still makes it far easier on crew to have the passengers in 7-8 locations than scattered around every part of the ship.

"Scattered" is not the right word IMHO. They are exactly where you expect them to be. The pax are quietly sitting on their beds watching the TV for instructions, which could even be in their own language. Not in a big room with 20 screaming kids and crew trying to get people to be silent and listen. Hopefully, with the right Captain, plenty of time to say over and over again that there is no reason to panic, but yes there is a fire in the engine room which a well trained team is now taking care of. We'll tell you immediately when you should find your life boat, which is 3 floors down and a bit forward. Your boat is number five. Our crew is available for any question. We're terribly sorry for any inconvience. Now we'll tell you once again about the whistle and the light.

I've been on a HAL ship twice, but cannot remember that going back to the cabin would the step 1.

And the problem with your alternative scenario is that during one emergency, you tell 300 people to go to the MDR, when their muster station is a bar.

No, the "muster station" would be the cabin for every passenger, except for (I guess about right) 300 pax who are in the fire zone and get sent to the MDR.

The next time it is a different 300 going to the MDR

You mean a second alarm during the same cruise? I was thinking almost every passenger would get to their cabin, and enough crew available to guide the 300 who happen to be in the affected area.

So, you are muddling the linkage between the muster station and associated boats. And, reading back to see how your cabin muster gets people to the lifeboats, you want to wait until things are so out of hand that the passengers need to leave the safety of the world's largest lifeboat, and then start collecting people from every cabin deck, and every area and getting them to the boats orderly? Sounds kind of like the Concordia. With the centralized muster stations you have large groups of passengers that can be divided up to go to the boats, as opposed to a stream of people coming down stairwells. And many officers are trained in crowd and crisis management, and are trained to look for "force multipliers" or passengers who show the characteristics of leaders and who can be deputized to assist the crew in handling large crowds.

The crew should not be collecting people. The TV would say "stay, stay, prepare, wait, NOW please go to the lifeboat" which would be calculated down to the second. Some people would still be running to their (or any) lifeboat at the first sign of trouble, but if 90% does what the Captain says, it should be a much smoother operation than dividing 10 groups of 200 people group to orderly get into a life boat without people shouting that they have a baby (which is shown in the Concordia video). They'd be coming at a slow pace.

Sorry, but there are people who study this for a living, and they have modeled crowd and crisis management paradigm software that has been shown to be very accurate in determining how people react to emergencies, and where you would find the bottlenecks, and in the worst case, where you would find the bodies. The whole emergency procedures for ships are based on these studies, and I think that actual, historical data provides a better basis for designing a passenger muster procedure than any "feeling" that a different way may evoke less panic.

Yes of course. I'm not asking questions to change the way ships work. I just want to understand why ships do x where y would seem so much easier. I can't thank you enough for explaining all of it, no matter what weird question I've been asking in the last few years.

bringing the discussion back to the OASIS

this was the first ship to use a NEW life boat system .....

https://www.rina.org.uk/mega-lifeboat.html

these boats have 4 loading stations and as implemented on OASIS the individual assembly stations are all INSIDE the ship .... there are doors from these inside locations to the boarding stations for the boats. Take a walk on the boat deck and you'll see the signage and then it all makes sense.....

There is insufficient space to assemble on the narrow deck along side the HUGE lifeboat ..... from the 'door' to the boat is a matter of feet. The seats and boarding station of the boat are color coded ..... and numbered .....

"Scattered" is not the right word IMHO. They are exactly where you expect them to be. The pax are quietly sitting on their beds watching the TV for instructions, which could even be in their own language. Not in a big room with 20 screaming kids and crew trying to get people to be silent and listen. Hopefully, with the right Captain, plenty of time to say over and over again that there is no reason to panic, but yes there is a fire in the engine room which a well trained team is now taking care of. We'll tell you immediately when you should find your life boat, which is 3 floors down and a bit forward. Your boat is number five. Our crew is available for any question. We're terribly sorry for any inconvience. Now we'll tell you once again about the whistle and the light.

 

Sitting fixed in 3000 locations on several decks, along 900 feet of ship is what I call scattered. And how many people would be following instructions on the PA (and there are more important uses for this resource, in my opinion) and would actually know where this lifeboat is, if they have never been to it. And for ships like the Oasis, the area of the open deck is so small that you cannot have streams of people (unless you are planning on releasing folks from their rooms one boat at a time) to get past another group to get to the proper boat. And hell, I would venture that 30% of passengers have no clue where forward is half the time when standing in a cabin passageway, and that number would jump when emotions take over. And how would you tailor this announcement for every cabin, when some may have to go down 6 decks and forward, while some would have to go down 9 decks and aft. Let alone add in port and starboard.

 

I've been on a HAL ship twice, but cannot remember that going back to the cabin would the step 1.

 

I'm not sure if it is fleetwide, but many HAL ships use this.

 

 

 

No, the "muster station" would be the cabin for every passenger, except for (I guess about right) 300 pax who are in the fire zone and get sent to the MDR.

 

 

 

 

You mean a second alarm during the same cruise? I was thinking almost every passenger would get to their cabin, and enough crew available to guide the 300 who happen to be in the affected area.

 

No, I'm talking about another emergency, or another drill. Because this sure as hell would confuse the crew as to who was supposed to be in the MDR "this time".

 

 

 

The crew should not be collecting people. The TV would say "stay, stay, prepare, wait, NOW please go to the lifeboat" which would be calculated down to the second. Some people would still be running to their (or any) lifeboat at the first sign of trouble, but if 90% does what the Captain says, it should be a much smoother operation than dividing 10 groups of 200 people group to orderly get into a life boat without people shouting that they have a baby (which is shown in the Concordia video). They'd be coming at a slow pace.

 

"Calculated down to the second", and you are the one saying that passengers would be scrambling around in panic and not following orders. The first thing you learn in emergency planning is just what von Moltke said of war: "no plan survives contact with the enemy". In this case, no fixed plan will ever be fully carried out as per the plan, because situations vary, so saying that releasing passengers to walk down hallways and down stairs to get to boats could be "calculated to the second" is just ridiculous (sorry).

And the crew would be collecting people. They would have to be in the cabin passageways, herding the folks out of their cabins (the second the Captain says so), then checking those cabins, and marking them as empty, and ensuring no one turns back, no one lags behind to set the precise timetable off kilter, etc.

 

Yes of course. I'm not asking questions to change the way ships work. I just want to understand why ships do x where y would seem so much easier. I can't thank you enough for explaining all of it, no matter what weird question I've been asking in the last few years.

The way things work for a large majority of the crew is that at the time of passenger muster signal, they assemble in teams in the stairwells, first to guide guests down to the proper locations, then at each deck, a deck section chief gives out the master keys and "searched" tags to his/her team, and they proceed from that stairwell checking every cabin and crew locker until they reach the next stairwell. They then return to the deck section chief and report the zone clear. The chief reports to the stairwell chief that "deck X" is cleared, and that deck team proceeds down to the next deck. This procedure is being carried out on all decks in all cabins (pax and crew), public spaces, crew spaces, and lockers on each deck at the same time by teams assigned to each deck and zone. This can take as long as the passenger muster drill on embarkation day, and that is without having to herd thousands of cats along while searching areas, and takes hundreds of crew. As each deck section is cleared, the teams proceed down (or in the case of crew spaces, up) the stairwells to get to the muster station locations or the promenade deck. Once the stairwell chiefs report to the central command (typically the HD) that the section is clear top to bottom, they are sent to assist at the muster stations with calming folks, and guiding them from the muster station to the boats.

Dealing with passengers is like herding cats. Yet, if you can get all the cats from the hoarder's house into one room, you have a better chance of capturing them all, in a shorter time, than if they are scattered around the house. Having the passengers in relatively small areas allows for better coordination of the emergency teams and for better control when things go sideways (remember von Moltke) and you have to start improvising on where to move folks to keep them safe.

And to answer the OP's question directly, yes, the muster is realistic, since there are 3 things a passenger needs to know in an emergency: (1) where the muster station is, (2) shut up, and (3) listen for instructions.

One thing I've mentioned several times when the topic of repeat cruisers not wanting to participate in muster drill again, is to give yourself mental exercises for the drill. Imagine yourself somewhere on the ship, then imagine a fire somewhere on the ship, now imagine a path from where you started to your muster station without going through the fire, or any deck above it in the same fire zone. Then after the drill, before you get to partying, walk the route and see if you could have made it. Repeat every drill with different locations. I've done 26+ drills a year for 43 years, and every drill I set myself a new exercise (not necessarily a route, but perhaps a way to send fire teams into a particular space, how to attack certain types of fires, or how best to secure power to a fire zone while retaining maximum ship's service and propulsion, boring things like that).

Dealing with passengers is like herding cats.

Thank you again for your further explaination.

Sitting fixed in 3000 locations on several decks, along 900 feet of ship is what I call scattered. And how many people would be following instructions on the PA (and there are more important uses for this resource, in my opinion) and would actually know where this lifeboat is, if they have never been to it..

Not the PA, the TV. The same TV that knows what drink I bought 5 minutes ago should be able to tell me what t do.

To be certain, whatever happens to a ship (fire. iceberg, crazy Captain), we're always talking about hours to evacuate?

Calculated down to the second"' date=' and you are the one saying that passengers would be scrambling around in panic and not following orders. The first thing you learn in emergency planning is just what von Moltke said of war: "no plan survives contact with the enemy". In this case, no fixed plan will ever be fully carried out as per the plan, because situations vary, so saying that releasing passengers to walk down hallways and down stairs to get to boats could be "calculated to the second" is just ridiculous (sorry).[/quote']

 

 

 

Some people will be 5 minutes late because they needed to find their passport. Some will run to any lifeboat. However, I expect the majority to listen to the Captain, and it would be as smooth as a normal disembarkation.

 

 

 

 

 

And the crew would be collecting people. They would have to be in the cabin passageways' date=' herding the folks out of their cabins (the second the Captain says so), then checking those cabins, and marking them as empty, and ensuring no one turns back, no one lags behind to set the precise timetable off kilter, etc.

 

.[/quote']

 

 

 

There's no difference with the usual procedure? Even if one passenger doesn't show up, every cabin needs the same checking. With just 100 crew, 1500 cabins, 30 seconds per cabin (I guess the button to open every door would be pressed) that's less than 10 minutes.

 

 

Imagine yourself somewhere on the ship' date=' then imagine a fire somewhere on the ship, now imagine a path from where you started to your muster station without going through the fire, or any deck above it in the same fire zone.

[/quote']

 

Knowing the location of the muster station is one thing that is forced on us, but you cannot expect passengers, people simply expecting a floating hotel as their vacation, thinking of places where a fire could break out and figuring out what alternative routes would lead to safety.

What if the fire knocks out the tv or Wi-Fi in the cabin?

Then you are in your room waiting for instruction from?

Going to the muster station is the best way to get info to a lot of people at once and to corral them to safety. Sorry if you don't like crying babies, but I'd like to avoid being drowned in my cabin.