Inquiries at sea......by straight folks

Interesting thread. I found myself looking in Boytje's profile after his comment on St Barts in another thread I was reading saying they had no problem with his ship and might have been because it was a gay cruise. (Others had been saying the locals had been very rude and unfriendly.) Curiosity got the better of me there! Glad it did though.

My thoughts on the subject are several fold. Asking someone might sound inappropriate, but it might be because they want a friend to speak to and hoping that you are (as well), or just wanting to chat and the conversation is regarding a gay friend of theirs and needed advice or help!

Its easy to think suspiciously I guess, but there might not be anything sinister or underhand at all. Obviously as shown above with the idiot throwing the beer, it probably commonly is done as a negative.

Anyway.... hope my added thoughts are not judgmental. And apologies to Boytje for the semi stalking! :p

If it's on my profile, it's not stalking! It is public information. Now if you tracked me down on Facebook, that would be stalking. ;)

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If it's on my profile, it's not stalking! It is public information. Now if you tracked me down on Facebook, that would be stalker my! ;)

It was meant to be light hearted... honest! Just explaining how I found the thread. What did you think of St Barts BTW? I was just doing a fact finding read for a cruise next March. It didn't sound too good from what many other Posters were suggesting.

Fortunately I don't use facebook so you're safe there! :p

Interesting thread. I found myself looking in Boytje's profile after his comment on St Barts in another thread I was reading saying they had no problem with his ship and might have been because it was a gay cruise. (Others had been saying the locals had been very rude and unfriendly.) Curiosity got the better of me there! Glad it did though.

 

My thoughts on the subject are several fold. Asking someone might sound inappropriate, but it might be because they want a friend to speak to and hoping that you are (as well), or just wanting to chat and the conversation is regarding a gay friend of theirs and needed advice or help!

 

Its easy to think suspiciously I guess, but there might not be anything sinister or underhand at all. Obviously as shown above with the idiot throwing the beer, it probably commonly is done as a negative.

 

Anyway.... hope my added thoughts are not judgmental. And apologies to Boytje for the semi stalking! :p

You make a very good point,we are all guilty of suspicion, and not without good cause.

I just say one has to be very careful and access the aggression level.:)

You make a very good point,we are all guilty of suspicion, and not without good cause.

I just say one has to be very careful and access the aggression level.:)

We are probably all guilty. I often answer the phone thinking I've been cold called ready to give them hell and it turns out to be a school teacher wanting to chat over concerns (or some such similar scenario). By nature we can see bad in innocent situations... we're all a suspicious bunch at times.

Taking an outright personal question can in circumstances make someone uncomfortable being asked (and understandably).... but would it if it was at a pride parade for example? I just wonder if (and I do appreciate there are idiots out there) the person being asked and feeling uncomfortable to answer is in fact being guilty themselves and judgemental over the motives of the person asking.

There's good and bad everywhere. I'd just say to the OP that if the asker has a problem with an honest answer from you, most would agree that's their problem not yours.

All the best

Hope a different angle / perspective was helpful and added to the debate.

Wow, great thread. Me and my partner haven't really experienced much negativity but i'd never ask anybody such an invasive question, i'd wait until the subject was approached first or use my instincts and offer any info, if i felt comfortable with that person. I suppose if somebody persistently asked me "are you gay" i'd probably reply "i'm very happy thanks"

The only time we ever had a bad experience was when a couple (Lady and Man) were escorted to our table at afternoon tea and he exclaimed "i'm not sitting with those Q----s" and rushed away. The lady did apologize,but it was quite embarrassing. It didn't put us off though, some people are just ignorant.

Happy cruising. :)

Very interesting thread. I sail solo frequently and have never been asked whether I am gay--I just assume everyone can figure it out, but once someone I had been talking to a couple of times made a remark about an attractive woman assuming that I, like him, would appreciate such things. I must admit I did not clarify my situation--making a noncommittal comment and then more or less avoiding him, mainly because I thought he might find it awkward. Looking back on it perhaps he had figured things out but was testing me to make sure.

Anyway, a neutral answer to an inquiry that does not give information one way or the other might be to acted shocked by the question (which might not require much acting) and then say "Wow; I'm surprised you would ask that." The person could interpret that as you are obviously not, you obviously are, or you just think the question is rude--a response that could be made by a straight or gay person. Hopefully, there would be no follow-up but if there is, perhaps--"Let's talk about something else." I could probably not pull this off, but it would be a noncommittal answer--not particularly defensive, not particularly misleading.

I agree with the others, however, who recommended honesty. I am shocked at the negative experiences mentioned--I haven't encountered anything like that for forty years, but this is an opportunity for a learning moment for whoever asked the question.

It was meant to be light hearted... honest! Just explaining how I found the thread. What did you think of St Barts BTW? I was just doing a fact finding read for a cruise next March. It didn't sound too good from what many other Posters were suggesting.

 

Fortunately I don't use facebook so you're safe there! :p

We had a great time on St. Barts!

We rented a car from the airport, which was a mix-up: Hetrz said I had to go to the airport to pick it up but when I arrived at the airport rental location, they said the car was at the harbor! I specifically asked about that beforehand. Well, they took me to the car and refunded my cab fare.

We drove to Saline Beach, which was not crowded at all. The majority of the cruise folk went to a beach much closer to the harbor. After that we were looking for a place to have late lunch but most restaurants on the island close over the afternoon. A friend with us said that someone recommended to him we should check out Hôtel Le Toiny - a very tony resort! The restaurant wasn't open but they drove us to the beach where we had a couple of drinks under the palm trees. After that we found a burger joint popular with surfers where we finally ate, drank beer and enjoyed nightfall. Then it was back to the airport to drop off the car and head back to the ship.

A very enjoyable day - but we did stay away from the shops and the restaurants along the main drag.

Ok I am sorry. I feel a need to put in my view. I am a straight female who grew up with a gay female friends and as I got older made friends with both gay men and woman and trans and bi's. Needless to say I have no judgements on anyone unless they have harmed me. Anyhow from my perspective. When I meet people and I sense they are gay. I do not ask to confirm but if we are having conversations then yes I do ask. I never once thought it would offend or make them not know how to answer. Thank you for that lesson. I don't ever ask any question to anyone to be rude or noisy. I am naturally a person who likes to understand others thoughts and get to know who they are regardless of sexual orientation. A recent example is I went to cancun in August to an adults resort. I knew there would be gays, straights,couples , singles , every race. Etc. I didn't realize there would be many swingers. I met several couples and they were all great. Yes I asked questions. Why? To educate myself. To understand their perspective. I learned so much and am so grateful they all willingly answered and shared more than I asked. I also answer any questions people ask. I am not ashamed or afraid or think people are noisy. They are Learning who I am as a person. Why I am who I am. Basically what I am saying is please remember some of us ask to learn. We don't judge. And I do not tolerate hateful words to someone regardless of who they are, unless of course they have caused harm to me then I may call them a hole. Thank you for letting me jump in with my thoughts.

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Ok I am sorry. I feel a need to put in my view. I am a straight female who grew up with a gay female friends and as I got older made friends with both gay men and woman and trans and bi's. Needless to say I have no judgements on anyone unless they have harmed me. Anyhow from my perspective. When I meet people and I sense they are gay. I do not ask to confirm but if we are having conversations then yes I do ask. I never once thought it would offend or make them not know how to answer. Thank you for that lesson. I don't ever ask any question to anyone to be rude or noisy. I am naturally a person who likes to understand others thoughts and get to know who they are regardless of sexual orientation. A recent example is I went to cancun in August to an adults resort. I knew there would be gays, straights,couples , singles , every race. Etc. I didn't realize there would be many swingers. I met several couples and they were all great. Yes I asked questions. Why? To educate myself. To understand their perspective. I learned so much and am so grateful they all willingly answered and shared more than I asked. I also answer any questions people ask. I am not ashamed or afraid or think people are noisy. They are Learning who I am as a person. Why I am who I am. Basically what I am saying is please remember some of us ask to learn. We don't judge. And I do not tolerate hateful words to someone regardless of who they are, unless of course they have caused harm to me then I may call them a hole. Thank you for letting me jump in with my thoughts.

Nicely put... just to reiterate on one thing I posted earlier. I wouldn't expect or suggest anyone's opening line to be "are you gay" would be ok. But during a conversation as long as the intentions weren't to offend, personally I can't see it as any different to asking someone if they are married.

Nicely put... just to reiterate on one thing I posted earlier. I wouldn't expect or suggest anyone's opening line to be "are you gay" would be ok. But during a conversation as long as the intentions weren't to offend, personally I can't see it as any different to asking someone if they are married.

Completely understand. I would never ask personal questions as an opening line but I guess there are some that will. And those that do probably are not asking because they want to get to know the person. Also I must add. I had a blast in cancun. Although swinging isn't my thing, it never bothered me seeing it and I was never uncomfortable even though as I learned I could be a "unicorn". I am actually looking at going again next year. The best group of diversified people I have ever been around. Have a great day

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We all have different comfort levels, I understand. But if someone is comfortable in asking personal questions to someone they don't know or if their curiousity justifies asking questions in earshot of others....then are there any questions that cross the line?

If a man seated two seats away from a women at a bar on a ship asks " well what kind of sex do you like?" Is his curiousity justification to ask? Because in my opinion, asking me if I am gay is the same thing? If all the people at the bar stared at the women to await her response.....should she answer, should she not let it offend her? Might she feel discomfort the next time she walks into that bar and sees the same people?

Does it come down to its all determined by the questioner? Is all fair game. Is it me who is in the wrong for being offended ?

I could understand asking questions in private once you spend time getting to know someone, but out in a public setting still seems inappropriate to me....

But thanks to this thread I have now come up with a response that works for me.

When asked if I am gay or am I queer I will just respond by asking ...are you a homophobe. Their response will help dictate how I continue in the conversation. I still will feel uncomfortable with the situation and will have to waste time dealing with my feelings. Maybe total insensitivity is the way of the world these days.....anyone can justify anything. I guess this is where I get flamed.

We all have different comfort levels, I understand. But if someone is comfortable in asking personal questions to someone they don't know or if their curiousity justifies asking questions in earshot of others....then are there any questions that cross the line?

 

If a man seated two seats away from a women at a bar on a ship asks " well what kind of sex do you like?" Is his curiousity justification to ask? Because in my opinion, asking me if I am gay is the same thing? If all the people at the bar stared at the women to await her response.....should she answer, should she not let it offend her? Might she feel discomfort the next time she walks into that bar and sees the same people?

 

Does it come down to its all determined by the questioner? Is all fair game. Is it me who is in the wrong for being offended ?

 

I could understand asking questions in private once you spend time getting to know someone, but out in a public setting still seems inappropriate to me....

 

But thanks to this thread I have now come up with a response that works for me.

 

When asked if I am gay or am I queer I will just respond by asking ...are you a homophobe. Their response will help dictate how I continue in the conversation. I still will feel uncomfortable with the situation and will have to waste time dealing with my feelings. Maybe total insensitivity is the way of the world these days.....anyone can justify anything. I guess this is where I get flamed.

I would not flame you or anyone else for your thoughts and feelings. We are all entitled to have them. I only suggest that we all listen and learn and maybe our feelings will change or we can learn to deal better with situations we are not comfortable talking about. We are all differant and there is no wrong or right answer to the question of a personal feeling. Have a great day

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We had a great time on St. Barts!

 

We rented a car from the airport, which was a mix-up: Hetrz said I had to go to the airport to pick it up but when I arrived at the airport rental location, they said the car was at the harbor! I specifically asked about that beforehand. Well, they took me to the car and refunded my cab fare.

 

We drove to Saline Beach, which was not crowded at all. The majority of the cruise folk went to a beach much closer to the harbor. After that we were looking for a place to have late lunch but most restaurants on the island close over the afternoon. A friend with us said that someone recommended to him we should check out Hôtel Le Toiny - a very tony resort! The restaurant wasn't open but they drove us to the beach where we had a couple of drinks under the palm trees. After that we found a burger joint popular with surfers where we finally ate, drank beer and enjoyed nightfall. Then it was back to the airport to drop off the car and head back to the ship.

 

A very enjoyable day - but we did stay away from the shops and the restaurants along the main drag.

Thank you for that Peter. I did notice they do quad bikes as one of the tours (I'm sure it's common throughout the islands).... so may give that a go.) I won't be booking via the ship though.... everything is about 4 times more expensive doing things that way.

I've decided that I'm likely to buy a new dji mavic drone for its portability.... so may be using that a fair bit once I learn the ground rules at the locations we visit and proximity to the airport if there are any nearby.

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Thank you for that Peter. I did notice they do quad bikes as one of the tours (I'm sure it's common throughout the islands).... so may give that a go.) I won't be booking via the ship though.... everything is about 4 times more expensive doing things that way.

 

I've decided that I'm likely to buy a new dji mavic drone for its portability.... so may be using that a fair bit once I learn the ground rules at the locations we visit and proximity to the airport if there are any nearby.

St. Bart's is very hilly, I don't know how far bicycling will get you!

As for drones, they may not allow you to take it onboard the ship, better check that out with the cruise line.

Yup, the coming out process never ends. People are curious, or not. I am who I am (husband to a show queen).

So after 29 years (and at least that many cruises) with my ex, out, proud, unabashedly answering any and all questions openly and honestly, I thought I was done with the coming out process. Then...

That relationship ended, and a year later, a better one began. Now five years old, the three of us share a beautiful, loving, family. Yes, three men, together 5 years this month. Loving, committed, together. And the questions we get--from straight and gay people, as we come out all over again...never cease to amaze. I've decided to believe that the questions are not prurient or evil, but asked because people really want to imagine our lives together to determine if it is something they might be interested in pursuing at some point. Who sleeps where? Who shops? Who works? What about the fighting? What do your families say?

In my responses, I'm sometimes overzealous, like an evangelical pastor at the church welcome picnic. If I were any other way (embarrassed or evasive) I would be the one to feel bad about me, us, and our love. Folks are nice. They just cant help themselves; but I can help them, by coming out all over again.

In my 6th decade, I'm in love all over again, even better and deeper this time. Thanks for reading!

Good point Peter. I hadn't even thought of carrying it onboard being a problem.

Very interesting thread!

I have the benefit of being a solo traveller. Never been asked about my sexuality, but I am usually accused of being a crew member. I've been verbally abuses for it too! Quite funny though.

The thing that frustrates me are the gay couples who almost always take pity and say 'you'll meet the right guy'. Why is there always the assumption that gay men want to be partnered off?

Sometimes I am just stupid and/or naive!

 

 

 

Wow, that is rude. I might have responded with something like: "Oh honey, you are so not my type - I like a real MAN!" and walked away. (What was his wife's reaction?)

 

There may still be troglodytes like that around but I think over the last couple of years people have gotten a lot more knowledgeable about gays and hopefully something like is less likely to happen again.

 

By the way, you can find rude gay people asking inappropriate questions and making rude comments too.

Sorry, but I would have decked the slimeball right on the spot!

Sorry, but I would have decked the slimeball right on the spot!

Public shaming can accomplish more than violence. :) And likely it won't get you thrown off the ship. :D

This is an excellent discussion. I am 66 and my Partner and I have been together for 24 years and married for 4 years. We are so often taken as brothers which is puzzling, but only when reading one post above did it occur to me that it might not be our looks, but the way we interact with each other that suggests a stronger bond than just acquaintances.

We haven't had any bad experiences in having people ask us personal questions, but, provided the person is not showing a negative attitude, we are quite comfortable in saying that we're together, or that we're a gay couple. Coming from a federal public service background where the two of us were fully accepted as a gay couple by colleagues and staff, and where they even sent us flowers for our marriage, I suppose we just don't expect anything else.

We did have one fellow on our recent cruise, who sat beside us in one of the lounges, couldn't stop talking 'at us', and who noted that he and his wife knew some people "like us" back home in Texas. He also let us know that his wife would want to hug us when she came over, so forewarned, I stood up in polite fashion, with the low table solidly between us, and extended my best formal handshake, which took care of that problem! There was no malice in his approach - just lack of sensitivity and awareness, and since his was not an acquaintance that we felt we couldn't do without, it wasn't worth the unpleasantness of trying to say anything.

So our straight-forward approach is no doubt a function of not having had bad experiences from others, quite the opposite in fact, which I know is not the case for everyone.

Thank you for the wonderful post....your positive experiences are refreshing to read. Since we are of similar "vintage", were your early years spent hiding the fact or did you not feel the need to hide? So many people have such different life journeys it makes me wonder if early troubles set some up for difficulties dealing with rudeness even late in life? Guess this post is off topic but the more I read the more I understand. I have a cruise next month, perhaps I will have a few new tools to help deal with rude questions or attitude.

Yes, interesting thread, if for no other reason than to remind those of us that live in/near a "Gay Mecca" that not everyone has the same comfort level.

I've been on 30+ cruises as an out Gay man, and have had the entire panoply of enquiries and responses. I've noticed that humor is often the best tack, as, for the most part, people on a cruise are there to enjoy themselves, and this fits better than confrontation.

We've often used the "Don't worry, you're not my type" line, only to get the slightly hurt "why not?" response. ;-)

Wives are, statistically, more open than their husbands, and we often play one off the other with humor to keep equal footing.

We've had a few ugly comments over the years, but usually by older men who literally run away after making the comments, leading us to believe it is their insecurity that is the problem , not us.

We've also had to use psychology a few times...sometimes as basic as reassuring someone that you KNEW that they were straight, so no threat here, etc.

We tend to travel ( last 12 cruises) with a straight couple, so we can tease/cajole/insult folks in a kind way, and set an example of what the four of us will tolerate...allies can be very important!

The best tool is confidence, but, as others have noted, you still have to judge how safe you are in any given situation.

Happy cruising.:)

Andrew

Since we are of similar "vintage", were your early years spent hiding the fact or did you not feel the need to hide? So many people have such different life journeys it makes me wonder if early troubles set some up for difficulties dealing with rudeness even late in life?

I guess as long as I mention the word "cruise" I'm okay! ;)

I was lucky in that my parents never disparaged groups of people, so I had no prejudices about gays, blacks, jews, women or any other group. People were just people. In the 70's I had to keep it quiet because the Canadian military had a regulation which said that they would discharge me if they knew. In the 80's and beyond, living on Canada's west coast made for a fairly liberal society around me, and, likely as a result of our current Prime Minister's father, the public service evolved early on into a gay-friendly organization. Income tax rules recognized same-sex couples almost 25 years ago, and marriage came in about 15 years ago.

On our latest cruise (this makes it on-topic!), we liked the dance music one evening and just got up and danced, starting with a waltz. My partner dances very well so he makes me look good, and we got compliments from other passengers in the days following. We dress in tuxedos on formal night, and in between, every other night we don jackets, so although this is for our own satisfaction and pleasure, it tends to set a positive mood and may make it a bit easier for some people to relate to us.

Now if only everyone could have the same good luck, but we're steadily making progress. BTW, our thank-you card to my staff for the flowers on our wedding, with a picture of the two of us on the cover sporting our white tuxes, remained pinned to the office wall for all visitors to see, for two years until my retirement!

:)

I have long ago decided that in essence we all like to assign a "label" to most people. Labels help us to define one from another. I personally don't need a label for everyone I meet, but still find in my mind I might question who or what this person is - or where they fit. I personally believe that we categorize and label people without even realizing it.

Now, for me a label in my mind (not spoken) is benign and has no real value, but still I do it... most of the time it is just to understand who the person is.

As I have aged to a vintage worthy age, I don't give a #@&^$ what anyone wants to call me or label me...but, I do have concerns going on a cruise with my Husband for the first time what might be said or asked or spoken...

I will take the learnings of this thread and apply as necessary. Thank you for this.