Confrontation

Let me start by identifying myself and my husband as the friends of Frantic referred to in her thread 14 - 28 July and we are having a lovely vacation overall mostly thanks to Mr and Mrs Frantic.

However, for the first time ever since we've been cruising (2 to 3 times per year since 2007 mostly on Seabourn), we have had a confrontation with a crew member. We did inform one of his superiors and have received several apologies from his colleagues and manager, but the one apology that we have not received is from the server in mention.

We have since returned to the TK Grill, where this episode occurred and had fantastic food and service. I think we were intentionally put in a different section but couldn't help noticing the young man continuing to exude attitude and arrogance.

Fortunately there are a handful of "above and beyond" staff to make sure our vacation is a good one but I will not be doing another onboard booking for a future cruise this time. That will be a first for us since discovering Seabourn in 2009. We actually took advantage of our stop in Monte Carlo the other day to visit our TA and book a future cruise on Crystal.

Could you describe what happened? I understand that something very unpleasant happened, but it is unclear what the confrontation was. Are you not booking another SB cruise because this crew member did not apologize to you himself? I would like to understand more of what happened in able to better understand your reaction.

I agree with SLSD, without knowing at least some details of what happened to flesh out the incident, it is hard for us on CC to know what to make of this limited information.

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Could you describe what happened? I understand that something very unpleasant happened, but it is unclear what the confrontation was. Are you not booking another SB cruise because this crew member did not apologize to you himself? I would like to understand more of what happened in able to better understand your reaction.

+1 That was my first reaction too. Just saying that the person exuded attitude and arrogance isn't enough--would need to know more about the incident.

And on which ship? I remember an arrogant, with attitude, young man in TKG on Encore. I just ignored him.

If you have had an apology from his manager and other staff that should be sufficient . The management cannot force the member of staff to apologise but of course he may not be working there anymore.

Chances are the waiter in question will not be working on SB after this cruise. However, I don't think he will be made to walk the plank before it returns to Barcelona.

Sorry you had this experience, Mme. Picantin.

Okay, so here’s what happened.

We were ordering our dinner at the TK grill. My husband ordered a ceasar salad as he has done several times in the past. Our server, Hugo, said that they would make it without the anchovies due to my husband’s allergy. Up until then everything was fine. My husband informed Hugo that anchovies were fine and that his allergy was to shellfish. This is when Hugo stepped back, put up both hands as though to say stop and went on to ask « well what is it, an allergy or an intolerance »

When he left the table we both looked at each other in disbelief.

There’s more

Sorry this is super long and that’s why I didn’t go into detail in the last post.

When the starters came, I decided to let Hugo know that I would be ordering a sugar free dessert so that he would have plenty of time to organize. The response was negative, « we do not bring food from outside this restaurant ».

When it actually came time to order dessert, our waiter then insisted that all of their sorbets are 100% sugar free or I can order a cheese plate. I’ll skip the technical details when my husband tried to educate him as to the process of making sorbet...

Hugo’s response was « you either trust me or you don’t » Well we didn’t and finished our meal in the MDR.

This is also not the only reason we decided to go ahead with a booking on the competition but was more of the last straw. It just helped me to decide between 2 different itineraries, one on Seabourn and the other not.

This evening we return to TK with the Frantics and am sure we will have a wonderful time

That is a sad story, and must have ruined your evening.

I think the TK style might appear to some young staff as if it is a 3 star Michelin restaurant, in some of which, as most of us know, the staff can be snooty and scathing. I personally feel that it is a bit over-hyped, as SB obviously think TK is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. This young man perhaps has the impression that this is the way it should be run, unfortunately. Hopefully he will be if not dismissed at least told how to behave and placed in another department on the ship.

I'm sorry but I have to say I would have handled the situation completely differently. Once the waiter behaved so boorishly I would have immediately gotten up, walked over to the front desk and asked them call the hotel manager to report the insolence. Debating with a waiter who obviously does not know what his job is will do no good. jmo.

This was a very unfortunate experience. I am sure that those who train waiters at SB would be appalled. We experienced nothing like that at the TK Grill on either the Encore or Ovation. To the contrary, one of my favorite crew members often worked in the TK Grill--Michael from The Netherlands--what a really gracious, kind young man he is. I would not let one possibly anger challenged crew member color my view of SB or the TK Grill. We experienced absolutely no snobbery in the TK Grill and we have dined there at least six times now.

I can certainly understand how this let a bad taste in your mouth. I have had a couple of experiences on SB cruises that did that---but I chalked it up to crew members having a bad day or thoughtlessness or possibly confusion. Examples: One evening in the MDR when asked if we would like to join others at a table, we said that would be fine. We were lead to a table and, lo and behold, the diners there did NOT want to be joined. Can you say AWKWARD! And then, to add insult to injury, they seated us at a table adjacent to the people who emphatically told us that they did not wish to be joined.

Another incident: I had gone out on the deck outside the Observation Bar at 6:30am to enjoy a view of a sail in to a beautiful port. A bit later, I was exiting the deck to walk back into the Observation Bar. As most of you know, those doors are quite heavy. A crew member (in fact, a white jacketed crew member,) I think he was in charge of the Colonnade dining) went through that door ahead of me and let it slam behind him. Of course it doesn't really slam, but it closed quickly enough that it felt like it slammed. He well knew that I was behind him and was not courteous at all. I am NOT a woman who expects doors opened for me or anything like this--but this was almost a deliberate slamming of a door when there were very few other people around. I am a pleasant non arrogant smiling passenger. This felt deliberate. I never mentioned it to anyone--not even to my husband--but it felt deliberate.

Chances are the waiter in question will not be working on SB after this cruise. However, I don't think he will be made to walk the plank before it returns to Barcelona.

Sorry you had this experience, Mme. Picantin.

On our Cape Town to Singapore cruise we had a crew member who was out of order while off the ship. I won't go into detail.

Anyway, our Guest Services Manager heard about it and dealt with the matter immediately. The crew member was confined to quarters and disembarked at the next port.

I’m sorry to read about an experience that should not have occurred at any restaurant.

And also concur that such abhorrent behaviour should have been reported directly to the manager on the spot and the meal ended.

Still, the behaviour of one member of staff should not reflect the company as a whole.

I do hope they dismiss the waiter if this had been what truly happened. We are embarking in a few weeks and have no desire to have to meet him.

Out of interest, when an apology from his supervisor was given, was any explanation forthcoming?

I am neither condoning his behaviour nor defending him as only one side of the story - and there are two - has been given, so to name and shame him on a public forum is in my opinion unfair.

If his conduct was proven to be unacceptable or unprofessional then fair enough but at the moment it seems as if he is being treated as guilty until proven innocent.

I am not a loony left wing liberal and I detest unprofessionalism but to put things into perspective I have seen one ships officer sacked on the spot for one incident and another confined to quarters. He would have been sacked on the spot but there was a shortage of Certificates on board had he left so he was confined to his cabin and dismissed at the next port of call when a replacement had been found. Two careers gone.

Sorry to go against the grain but .....

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Okay, so here’s what happened.

 

We were ordering our dinner at the TK grill. My husband ordered a ceasar salad as he has done several times in the past. Our server, Hugo, said that they would make it without the anchovies due to my husband’s allergy. Up until then everything was fine. My husband informed Hugo that anchovies were fine and that his allergy was to shellfish. This is when Hugo stepped back, put up both hands as though to say stop and went on to ask « well what is it, an allergy or an intolerance »

When he left the table we both looked at each other in disbelief.

There’s more

Sorry this is super long and that’s why I didn’t go into detail in the last post.

When the starters came, I decided to let Hugo know that I would be ordering a sugar free dessert so that he would have plenty of time to organize. The response was negative, « we do not bring food from outside this restaurant ».

When it actually came time to order dessert, our waiter then insisted that all of their sorbets are 100% sugar free or I can order a cheese plate. I’ll skip the technical details when my husband tried to educate him as to the process of making sorbet...

Hugo’s response was « you either trust me or you don’t » Well we didn’t and finished our meal in the MDR.

 

This is also not the only reason we decided to go ahead with a booking on the competition but was more of the last straw. It just helped me to decide between 2 different itineraries, one on Seabourn and the other not.

 

This evening we return to TK with the Frantics and am sure we will have a wonderful time

Poor you! I hope you will be able to forget this earth shattering experience. :rolleyes:

Why would Hugo offer to make an anchovies free Caesar salad in the first place?

And why would you not believe that they make sugar free sorbets, which is easily done? There are plenty of (even entirely natural) sugar alternatives.

Out of interest, when an apology from his supervisor was given, was any explanation forthcoming?

I am neither condoning his behaviour nor defending him as only one side of the story - and there are two - has been given, so to name and shame him on a public forum is in my opinion unfair.

If his conduct was proven to be unacceptable or unprofessional then fair enough but at the moment it seems as if he is being treated as guilty until proven innocent.

I am not a loony left wing liberal and I detest unprofessionalism but to put things into perspective I have seen one ships officer sacked on the spot for one incident and another confined to quarters. He would have been sacked on the spot but there was a shortage of Certificates on board had he left so he was confined to his cabin and dismissed at the next port of call when a replacement had been found. Two careers gone.

Sorry to go against the grain but .....

 

 

Sent from the magic box!

MBP, with respect, the CC SB forum is not a court of law following formal standards of proof for crimes with required legal representation, and we are not American or British jurors. It is a casual opinion forum for luxury cruisers, where we take all reports and opinions with a grain of internet salt, or sound people out for opinions pro and con, and we reality test comments and try and help or inform each other.

On this thread the OP, with proddingm responded to requests for details about what had happened that upset her so much she chose another luxury line.

BTW SB and other luxury lines have such a shortage of servers trained in properly dealing with luxury pax that I doubt Hugo will be fired, even when complaints are lodged, as management can best judge who is redeemable and can be replaced, and who needs to be sacked.

The OP would have no reason to make things up. You seem to be implying we should doubt her report, why? What she described is an impatient, irritable and arrogant waiter who either needs more training on how to diplomatically deal with *luxury* pax requests, or move to a job on Carnival, or perhaps to a isolated local roadhouse where tip is included and there is a captive clientele . (Actually, tip already is included on SB, so maybe that is part of the problem).

I have been thinking about this issue and know that as unpleasant as this encounter was, I would not be able to hold Seabourn accountable for the actions/words of one server. I like to look at the whole picture and form an opinion of the cruise line after looking at the big picture. If I was the OP, I would definitely report to Guest Services the episode, but that one issue would not have kept me from putting down a deposit for a future cruise.

While we were on our voyage, I did talk to Guest Services about very poor dinner time room service, but I did not report a couple of other issues (which I recounted above).

Poor you! I hope you will be able to forget this earth shattering experience. :rolleyes:

Why would Hugo offer to make an anchovies free Caesar salad in the first place?

And why would you not believe that they make sugar free sorbets, which is easily done? There are plenty of (even entirely natural) sugar alternatives.

The incident has nothing to do with shattering of the earth, or whether or not sorbet can be made with Splenda or Stevia or just natural berries for the sweetening source . It has to do with paying luxury prices for what many would see as rudeness. We have choices!

Hugo was likely initially offering to make a salad without anchovies because he mistakably thought an anchovy would trigger a shellfish allergy, fair enough, waiters are not immunologists. Crew have it pounded into them to accomodate pax food avoidance preferences, rational or not, to avoid doctor visits and law suits and bad reviews. Good. But it does not matter whether it is an allergy or an intolerance, as Mr. Les Pic. gave clarifying info that he could eat anchovies. Then asking the challenging allergy vs. intolerance question, with hands thrown up in the body language of frustration, was inappropriate for a luxury experience venue, as was a “You either trust me or not” retort unless said with great joking.

I am reminded of a waiter on a luxury line who physically pulled on my soup bowl to take it away, hostiley and mistakenly insisting I was not entitled to it because I already had an appetizer order.

As with all cruise ships, Seabourn employs thousand of crew members. Even though they do their best to hire and train ( Seabourn academy) , there’s always going to to be a few negative ones

I’ve experienced that a few times on Seabourn.

Each time I went to a superior officer and reported the incident.

I DO NOT want or expect an apology or interaction with the offending employee. That’s not my place, or good for the ship.

Seabourn is good at dealing with these incidents appropriately. On my last cruise in April a crew member was kicked off the ship for insulting a passenger publicly.

I find it very hard to find fault in that lengthy write up. This whole “issue” seems massively blown out of proportion to me.

Yes, the waiter should have known anchovies isn’t shellfish.

He’s right though in saying that TKG doesn’t bring in food from outside the restaurant and that there are no off menu items. If you don’t like that, take it up with Seabourn Management. This has been Thomas Keller’s policy from day 1.

He’s also right in saying that they serve sugar free sorbets (although they probably shouldn’t be called sorbet).

What I find arrogant is “I’ll skip the technical details when my husband tried to educate him as to the process of making a sorbet...”. Why would your husband do such a thing? To show off how much more educated or intelligent he is?

We sometimes get questions on Cruise Critic from people new to Seabourn who are worried about snobbery. I’m sorry if this is harsh, but the next time that happens, remember this thread and the perceived gravity of the small first world problem described in it.

Floris

I find it very hard to find fault in that lengthy write up. This whole “issue” seems massively blown out of proportion to me.

 

 

We sometimes get questions on Cruise Critic from people new to Seabourn who are worried about snobbery. I’m sorry if this is harsh, but the next time that happens, remember this thread and the perceived gravity of the small first world problem described in it.

 

Floris

Ouch!!!!

Please, let's not blame the aggrieved party. There is no excuse for rudeness and poor service.

Please, let's not blame the aggrieved party. There is no excuse for rudeness and poor service.

Ah yes, but who was being rude and who was exuding attitude? The person being "educated" or the person doing the "educating"?

There are always three sides to every story. What she said, what he said and what actually happened. We are only hearing one side of this.

The OP is paying good money and no doubt does not want to have to deal with that attitude on vacation. I will take it on face value noting that it is hard to properly describe such an unpleasant encounter - including aggressive non verbal communication.

I have been in that situation and it is very unpleasant - going back to the restaurant can make one anxious.

I am not sure I would like to even experience that person again and an assurance that they will ensure you have a great table and experienced waiter in the restaurant should be enough. I don’t think I would demand a personal apology - although if the person was mature enough to say that ‘Sorry - I was having a bad day’ and it was heartfelt I would think fair play.

Can I ask whether other things have been up to expectations? You can experience these things on any cruise line - human behaviour and all that.

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He’s right though in saying that TKG doesn’t bring in food from outside the restaurant and that there are no off menu items. If you don’t like that, take it up with Seabourn Management. This has been Thomas Keller’s policy from day 1. ................

 

Sorry, this is slightly off topic, but how is it that Thomas Keller has the right to say "you'll eat it my way or no way".? On our recent cruise I overheard someone request that their Napa Burger come without lettuce and the pickle. They were told that couldn't be done due to an instruction from TK. How silly! Of course the first thing they did on its arrival, was remove the lettuce and pickle