Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

We are experienced Princess cruisers who booked the NA for 2 weeks - February 19-March 5. We enjoy late fixed seating we had a lovely table for the first week. Mid cruise we were told that next week we could not be accommodated. The "choice" was open seating between 5.15 and 6.00 PM or go to the Lido Buffet.

The group booking was given as the reason. The ship's capacity is 2100 and the group was reported to be between 900 and 1200.

Needless to say this situation affected hundreds of people - all those wishing fixed dining AND any who wanted to use the dining room after 6.15.

The outcry was enormous and overwhelmed the staff who became rude in dealing with frustrated passengers.

This impacted everything on our cruise. The group were not drinkers or bar users so bar staff saw a drastic impact on their income. For everything else, - shows, lido dining, etc there were line ups. There was palpable tension between the 2 passenger groups.

We loved HAL in the first week but unsure if we can ever trust them with our cruising dollars again.

Group booking? Or charter? If the former, wouldn't it be illegal to unilaterally cancel the booking made under established offerings?

I am so sorry this happened. You were so thrilled to start your cruise we were all cheering you to have a great time. There should have been prior notice since traditional offerings you had expected when you signed up were not going to be available.

Glad passengers protested this one. Hang in there. You have a right to be plenty mad. Now if they had given you free access to the Tamarind for the duration of the cruise, it could have been a reasonable accommodation. But taking away a passenger basic like MDR fixed dining seems too much for anyone to accept without serious complaint or very clear prior notice and reduced fees.

What was the affinity "group"? Was their a prior discount for this segment of the cruise or some hidden fine print in the contract? I think it is great that smaller groups chose HAL ships, but for such a large size group to materially impact the rest of the passengers enjoyment is really over the top. And this is the first time I have ever heard this happen.

What a bad luck of the draw for your very first HAL cruise. So happy you had a good first week since we too developed such nice feelings about that ship on our first voyage on her too. Bummer.

I am so sorry to read that your second segment turned out badly.

Hi Liz - I'm very sorry you experienced what you did. There is a Cruise Critic member here, CJcruzer, who regularly posts a list of charters and large groups onboard HAL's ships. It's a volunteer gig, that takes a lot of time, and she does an outstanding job. It's too late to be helpful for you this go-around, but perhaps it might help both your future plans and the plans of other CC members who could be considering Holland America. This is CJcruzer's latest update:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2430548&highlight=charters

Since they didn't drink alcohol :cocktail:, was this some type of religious group (obviously not Catholic or Episcopalian :evilsmile: )?

Roz

I went back to check the threads that are updated from time to time about dry docks, charters and group cruises.

There was listed a Group Cruise for Feb 26 - March 5 -- the Gospel Music Celebration group.

The same thing happened to me on a btb NA cruise. The first week wonderful in the upper level MDR and the second week shoved down to lower level with different people and waiters, and total overcrowding. I wasn't informed about this change until the last day of the first cruise. I was not happy. I make it a point now to never book a one-week cruise again and stick to minimum 10-day cruises. I think this is completely unfair to loyal HAL cruisers, especially not to be told about it when you make a cruise reservation.

While any kind of disappointment is unfortunate, I don't see this being any different than any other annoying fellow customers. Disney doesn't inform me when there are 5000 quinceneritas visiting the theme park the same day as I. Marriott doesn't inform me when the floor below mine is filled with high school cheerleaders.

Has anyone had any experience with either the NY Times group or the Bright Horizons group? How large are they?

I normally check the groups/charters thread religiously (pun intended), but when booking our last cruise I was distracted and found out to my horror that I also booked a cruise with the dreaded gospel singers!!! Fortunately, I was able to work with HAL to change to another week and was only out $100 (money well spent!!!).

I think that it is terrible that HAL imposes such a large and disruptive group onto ordinary passengers without warning. In addition to taking over the upper dining room they also have their own shows. Plus you have to deal with their "holier than thou" attitude throughout the ship. The gospel singers should charter one of the smaller HAL ships entirely.

The reason that they insist in dining separately is that they do not want to socialize with anyone drinking alcohol. It has been reported on this forum that they will turn their backs on people drinking wine in an elevator. I could have sworn that there are biblical references to Jesus drinking wine, even creating wine...

igraf

I went back to check the threads that are updated from time to time about dry docks, charters and group cruises.

There was listed a Group Cruise for Feb 26 - March 5 -- the Gospel Music Celebration group.

Here is a warning for one group that will soon be taking over the NA - they expect 2000 to sign up so should one assume will this be a full ship "charter" and not just a mega group that takes over expected regular passenger venues for their own exclusive use?.

https://cruisinwiththemonkey.com

I was on this cruise and knew about the group ahead of time thanks to this forum. I emailed my PCC and asked about dining and she told me it wouldn't be a problem, especially since I was in a Neptune Suite. It even went as far as the concierge letting me book a standing reservation for the MDR all week when we boarded and then going the MDR only to rudely be told we could not eat and whoever made my reservation was wrong. I was then told to go to the buffet because it has all the same food (untrue, it only has some of the same things and it doesn't even compare to a MDR experience).

I was taking my parents on this cruise for my mom's upcoming 60th birthday. The dining situation made it hard for us to be out enjoying the ports, pools, activities etc when we all had to be back in the room, shower and dress by 6pm. People on the cruise were outraged, and understandibly so. I felt like I did not receive the product of a relaxing vacation and as you wish dining as HAL advertises.

I also wanted to book a future cruise while on board and couldn't because I was so paranoid there might be another group on board and I did not want to go through this again. I have exclusively cruised with HAL for years because I love everything about the cruise line but this was truly a disappointment. I really wish HAL wouldn't let groups like this charter half a cruise, what a way to lose money and upset your loyal customer base.:(

OP, I am sorry to hear this. Groups can have minimal impact or a huge one.

I totally get where you are coming from for your dining time. That's our preference too.

I wish HAL would inform cruisers, but like the other cruise lines they don't

Hi Liz - I'm very sorry you experienced what you did. There is a Cruise Critic member here, CJcruzer, who regularly posts a list of charters and large groups onboard HAL's ships. It's a volunteer gig, that takes a lot of time, and she does an outstanding job. It's too late to be helpful for you this go-around, but perhaps it might help both your future plans and the plans of other CC members who could be considering Holland America. This is CJcruzer's latest update:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2430548&highlight=charters

So grateful that Carol took over this thread. it is a huge help to many. And a great resource.

While any kind of disappointment is unfortunate, I don't see this being any different than any other annoying fellow customers. Disney doesn't inform me when there are 5000 quinceneritas visiting the theme park the same day as I. Marriott doesn't inform me when the floor below mine is filled with high school cheerleaders.

Sadly, you are right and they don't notify either. And while a floor below me in Marriott full of cheerleaders may be a bit upsetting, not eating at your chosen dining time which you may have booked over a year in advance is a bit different for many people and I can certainly understand the OP's frustration.

I can't believe you made these comparisons. Why would I care who else is at Disneyland? The lines will be just as long. Bad night in a hotel? A bother, but I can move to another hotel or at least dine off-site. Not so easy on a cruise and the commitment of time and money by the passenger is much more profound.

igraf

While any kind of disappointment is unfortunate, I don't see this being any different than any other annoying fellow customers. Disney doesn't inform me when there are 5000 quinceneritas visiting the theme park the same day as I. Marriott doesn't inform me when the floor below mine is filled with high school cheerleaders.

While any kind of disappointment is unfortunate, I don't see this being any different than any other annoying fellow customers. Disney doesn't inform me when there are 5000 quinceneritas visiting the theme park the same day as I. Marriott doesn't inform me when the floor below mine is filled with high school cheerleaders.

It is a huge difference. I am sorry you can't see why. This goes well beyond "disappointment". You mention single day examples where you are offended by the mere presence of a large group, and make no mention this group prevented you from using park facilities or getting a good night sleep regardless. .

In this case this was an extended period of disruption of regularly expected ship activities. No one said these were not nice people; rather than HAL let the sheer volume of them take priority over regularly booked passenger amenities. This was a major HAL fail. And I tend to get written off as a HAL "cheerleader. However, this was inexcusable. Shape up HAL - treat your passengers with more respect.

The list that Carol provides can be very helpful. If the group is large they will usually take over late set seating on upper level. Last year there was an Inspirations Group of 900 that resulted in the MDR being limited to 6:30 or earlier for others. Our cruise had only 700, no late set seating, we were able to dine at 8PM I believe I counted 12 Alaska Inspirations Groups this year .

Good Luck!

Interesting read as I am on the Eurodam in a couple of days (March 11), which is an "Inspiration Cruise". There are probably 800 of them, which will be about 1/3 of the ship which is sold out. Normally I would not book with a large group on board but ran out of options for my dates, hence the Eurodam. HAL already announced, via email, that guests would need to go to Lido as Main and Second dining were not available and there would be too many people for Anytime.

For some reason I put myself on Main dining. Glad I did, but I expect there will be some mighty unhappy people on Anytime who would like their meal in the dining room and find they can not be accommodated due to the large group.

We were also on this cruise, but were not affected by the large group for dining only because we had an earlier seating in the MDR. However, I have extreme empathy for those that were affected by this large group. I later found out that this group did not do anything special during this dining time. Just sat and ate. Shouldn't those passengers that were inconvenienced have the same right and opportunity? Many of these passengers had planned and paid for their cruise well in advance without being informed that they would be relegated to alternate dining against their wishes. For future cruises, I would hope that HAL would treat each person the same, and not tier people to the upper crust and steerage classes of yesteryear. It is not right that people pay top dollar and be told that their request for a particular dining time would be granted until they receive the final payment, only to have it rescinded to accomodate a larger group. Everyone should receive equal treatment!!!!

Hi Liz - I'm very sorry you experienced what you did. There is a Cruise Critic member here, CJcruzer, who regularly posts a list of charters and large groups onboard HAL's ships. It's a volunteer gig, that takes a lot of time, and she does an outstanding job. It's too late to be helpful for you this go-around, but perhaps it might help both your future plans and the plans of other CC members who could be considering Holland America. This is CJcruzer's latest update:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2430548&highlight=charters

So where was this post two weeks ago before I paid in full? I just followed the link and saw a VERY large group that will be on the same ship as us. My wife is trying to calm me down. I am very unhappy at this point. I will be calling Holland America tomorrow since we did originally booked through HAL. They should have mentioned that there was a very large group on this cruise. Up until now I had considered a cruise on HAL a more laid back over 50ish type of cruise. I have gone to this groups website and viewed their prior cruise videos. This will definitely not be a laid back cruise. I am not a happy camper.

When the CCL CEO Arnold Donald sneers on Celebrity Apprentice the HAL brand is "Midwestern ..even if the passengers don't live there", heaven protect us from whatever he meant by that.

We assumed this was a compliment. I am beginning to suspect it is not.

If HAL ever pulls this same stunt to a cruise we are on, it will be our last. One should not have to rely on a 3P website link to learn ahead of time they will be corralled as second class passengers, after they make their final payment.

So where was this post two weeks ago before I paid in full? I just followed the link and saw a VERY large group that will be on the same ship as us. My wife is trying to calm me down. I am very unhappy at this point. I will be calling Holland America tomorrow since we did originally booked through HAL. They should have mentioned that there was a very large group on this cruise. Up until now I had considered a cruise on HAL a more laid back over 50ish type of cruise. I have gone to this groups website and viewed their prior cruise videos. This will definitely not be a laid back cruise. I am not a happy camper.

I'm with you 100% on this one. Call HAL tomorrow, and tell them the situation. See if you can transfer to another, similar, cruise, without a group on board. Of course, you've probably already purchased air fare as well. I would start a new thread here on this forum with your complaint, and how it's being handled by HAL. Be polite, but be a squeaky wheel. You shouldn't have to do this, and I'm sorry you didn't see CJ's list sooner. But if I were in your situation, I would push back, loudly. Good luck.

Generally speaking, for future reference, one week itineraries on the newest ships (Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Konigsdam) are going to be the most susceptible to charters and large group bookings.

It is a huge difference. I am sorry you can't see why.

Don't confuse my disagreeing with you with "can't see why". I think your assessment of the difference is wrong. All the criteria you listed apply to my examples. The main difference seems to be that you care more about such things when they affect cruises and I don't.

I'm with you 100% on this one. Call HAL tomorrow, and tell them the situation. See if you can transfer to another, similar, cruise, without a group on board. Of course, you've probably already purchased air fare as well. I would start a new thread here on this forum with your complaint, and how it's being handled by HAL. Be polite, but be a squeaky wheel. You shouldn't have to do this, and I'm sorry you didn't see CJ's list sooner. But if I were in your situation, I would push back, loudly. Good luck.

 

Generally speaking, for future reference, one week itineraries on the newest ships (Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Konigsdam) are going to be the most susceptible to charters and large group bookings.

HAL may be more cooperative on a change given the trouble this caused them on the NA last week. If not, suggest you go on their Facebook page as well. Also escalate if you do not get what you want. Those who say they don't care about the dining are not understanding the issues connected with a "herd" of 1000 travelling around the ship. It was bad.

Last year we were on a B2B and had this same group (900 psgrs) for the first week. Surprisingly, our dinner service wasn't affected, so maybe they were having early dinner, we didn't really know. All that week the bars were easy to access, happy hour was virtually empty, and the casinos were not very busy. We did learn from a few of the bar servers that this group who apparently shunned alcohol, had the staff servicing the mini-bars in the cabins almost run off their feet. Apparently some were doing 2 runs a day to make sure they were all kept full. Interesting what goes on behind closed doors . . . .

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :):)