Princess Cruises and shower water rationing

I would recommend that you do NOT just place this on your steward. When you have a plumbing problem, you call the plumber not your maid.

Yes, mentioning it to your cabin steward is a proper thing to do. The cabin steward should then notify maintenance.

It seems that most pax do not understand the financial aspects of making fresh water on a cruise ship.

 

First, you need to understand that people living and traveling on a cruise ship use a lot of fresh water; about one cubic meter, or one ton, of water per person, per day.

 

Fresh potable water is not cheap to make or buy. If the ship produces it from sea water, it costs around US$60 per ton to produce. If they are able to purchase it in port, the cost drops to around US$40 per ton. If the ship carries 3,000 pax and 1,500 crew, the cruise line is going to spend between $180,000 and $270,000 per day for fresh water.

 

Cruise lines are in the habit of cutting costs as much as they can.

Most mass market lines have installed water saving reducers on their shower lines, and have reduced onboard water pressure. Both these ideas save a substantial amount of water - and money.

 

They have also made water consumption a major element in computing the annual bonuses for Captains and Chief Engineers. The more water that is saved results in higher annual earnings for the Captain and Chief.

 

Most of the time, the poor water pressure is not a major problem for cruisers. But if you happen to get a cabin at the end of the water main, or your shower head has a problem, you are out of luck. The video posted by the OP looks like a shower at the end of the water line. There is not sufficient pressure there to push out enough water. It's not going to get better. The Princess Chief Engineer is not going to sacrifice his annual bonus to improve your experience.

I’m sorry this doesn’t add up. Are you saying every passenger uses $60 a day of water

I’m sorry this doesn’t add up. Are you saying every passenger uses $60 a day of water

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I’m sorry this doesn’t add up. Are you saying every passenger uses $60 a day of water

Passengers use water for showers, washing hands (many times a day if they are sensible), cleaning teeth, flushing toilets, and for drinking - either plain, in tea or coffee, or with a wee dram added;), with or without ice. Water is used for washing dishes, preparing food, laundry, cleaning, hosing down decks/windows/railings to remove salt spray, filling or topping up pools, and probably numerous other things that don't readily spring to mind. That's a lot of water but still I don't see that adding up to $40-60pp per day. If it did then cruise fares would be a lot dearer than they are now as there are many, many other costs associated with operating a cruise ship, not just water costs.

The Princess Chief Engineer is not going to sacrifice his annual bonus to improve your experience.

Until such time when the word gets out, passenger counts drop, and the ship starts operating at a loss. :confused:;):eek:

Passengers use water for showers, washing hands (many times a day if they are sensible), cleaning teeth, flushing toilets, and for drinking - either plain, in tea or coffee, or with a wee dram added;), with or without ice. Water is used for washing dishes, preparing food, laundry, cleaning, hosing down decks/windows/railings to remove salt spray, filling or topping up pools, and probably numerous other things that don't readily spring to mind. That's a lot of water but still I don't see that adding up to $40-60pp per day. If it did then cruise fares would be a lot dearer than they are now as there are many, many other costs associated with operating a cruise ship, not just water costs.

That’s my thoughts too. No $100 pp pd cruises if food is about $10 or $15, water $60, then fuel costs for transportation, wages, port fees and charges, etc. just can’t make it work anyway I look at it.

It seems that most pax do not understand the financial aspects of making fresh water on a cruise ship.

 

First, you need to understand that people living and traveling on a cruise ship use a lot of fresh water; about one cubic meter, or one ton, of water per person, per day.

 

Fresh potable water is not cheap to make or buy. If the ship produces it from sea water, it costs around US$60 per ton to produce. If they are able to purchase it in port, the cost drops to around US$40 per ton. If the ship carries 3,000 pax and 1,500 crew, the cruise line is going to spend between $180,000 and $270,000 per day for fresh water.

These numbers are crazy and way off the truth. People do not use a cubic meter of water per day.

You claim it cost $60.00 to make a cubic meter of water.... do a internet search it cost less than $1.00 to make 1 cubic meter of fresh water from sea water on land. We know it costs more at sea but not 60 times more.

This is the problem with these sites people make up fake information and others believe it. So how about some facts here.

1 cubic meter of water is 264 US gallons. Here is the proof in a link

Royal Caribbean says the average passenger uses in total 55 gallons of water per day. Notice it says all, so counts the water used for cooking, clean, everything. Again the proof from RCCL corporate web site Link

"Taking all on board freshwater usage into account, RCL reports that on average its guests consume 55 gallons per day, compared to the U.S. average of as much as 100 gallons."

55 gallons is 1/5th of a cubic meter...... The facts say this quoted post above is absolutely wrong. But even if true the Cruise lines must provide correct water pressure to all guests.

While this has been brought up the last Ultimate Ships Tour I did regarding this it was explained that the ship operates mostly off fresh water and that fresh water is purchased and stored in tanks for the galley and passenger shower use. The desalinated water is what the ship will use in industrial areas like engine rooms but not in the galley and not in the pipes that service showers unless it is absolutely necessary. The toilet water is recycled water that has been treated from the drains of the showers. So thinking more about it the person who posted the mathematical figures about high prices is probably totally incorrect.

The other thing unique to Diamond Princess is those Japanese toilet seats in various cabins that probably take recycled water.

So if cruise lines are good at rationing water and using recycled water for the toilet bowl from the drainage from your showers chances are that passengers are not using that much water anyway which defies belief that Princess will need to ration it or reduce the pressure.

I wonder if any of the little holes are clogged. We live with hard water, full of minerals. Periodically, when our showers start dribbling like that, we take the shower heads off and soak them in vinegar.

In between, though, I reach up with a washcloth and scrub it across the face of the shower head. That opens the holes up for a while.

 

 

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All shower heads are periodically removed & cleaned on all the ships.

This problem could have been resolved the same day by simply contacting the PSD.

All shower heads are periodically removed & cleaned on all the ships.

This problem could have been resolved the same day by simply contacting the PSD.

I have had the same problem for the past three cruises on that ship and even with family members. Total cabins I know have the problem are five. They are reducing the water pressure deliberately.

All shower heads are periodically removed & cleaned on all the ships.

This problem could have been resolved the same day by simply contacting the PSD.

I'm fairly certain it wasn't the showerhead as the water pressure from the handbasin tap was also poor.

I think that Thrak has the right idea. I might add that a respectful note to the CEO with the video attached is likely to get a positive response. It is obvious that something is wrong with multiple cabins and cruises being involved and you ought not to be expected to diagnose the problem.

Okay, lots of misinformation here. I'll deal with OP's original complaint first.

The dribble from the shower head could be from two problems. It is not likely the shower head itself, as these are taken down and sanitized in bleach twice a year, and this will clean the holes in the shower head. In the mixing valve for the shower, there are small filter screens, and these can block up, causing either hot or cold water to be at reduced pressure, and then the safety feature of the mixing valve will limit the other temperature water to avoid scalding. It is a quick, 5 minute fix to remove these screens and clear them. The other problem area is the backflow preventer on the shower. Since the shower head is a potential source of legionella contamination (hence the twice a year sanitation), all shipboard showers must be fitted with backflow preventers to prevent anything flowing back from the shower head into the water system if the system is shut down. These backflow preventers can fail as well, resulting in low water flow to the shower. OP, take these suggestions to Guest Services, or Head of Housekeeping, and request maintenance to attend if your shower is flowing poorly.

If the pressure in the sink is also poor, then the screen in the aerator of the sink faucet may be clogged as well.

Over time, the calcium carbonate in the water forms a scale on the walls of the piping system. As long as the pipes are full of water, this scale stays in place. When the system is shut down and drained for maintenance/repair, the scale dries out and falls off the wall of the pipe (the scale is harmless, calcium carbonate is the active ingredient in every antacid tablet out there). When the system is refilled, this scale circulates around and can block these screens, and is the cause of the "discolored" water complaints (yellow to brown).

Now, water scale can build up, as not all water onboard is distilled, it may be from municipalities where the ship docks, if there is not enough time at sea to produce all the water needed. Additionally, both chlorine, and the calcium carbonate added to the water (calcium carbonate is an antacid) will form scale that can clog strainer screens.

Finally, water usage and cost. My experience is that the average usage per person (crew included, not just passengers) is about 0.3-0.4 metric tons of water per day. This is not just personal use, but water used in galleys and laundries. That is about 80-100 gallons/person/day. A ship with about 2200 pax and 900 crew will use about 1000 metric tons of water/day. I would be very surprised if total water consumption per passenger was 55 gal/day as RCI's PR department claims, I've never seen that low a consumption.

As for water distribution, I'm not disputing what the OP was told on the ship tour, but I am disputing that it was correct. There are not separate water systems for sinks, showers, galleys, and toilets. There is one system, as you will see if you ever pass by a sanitary locker (the service door outside your cabin where the plumbing is accessed), you will see cold water lines branching off one supply line to the sink, shower, and toilet. If you had a separate system to supply toilets alone, this would require several more miles of piping around the ship, plus additional pumps and tankage, all capital expenses. As the toilet uses only 1 liter/flush, it is a very small source of consumption. With the exception of: engine room non-drinking fresh water systems, main laundry, and galley disposal water, all of the water onboard is piped from the same tanks, and uses the same piping.

Engine room water, called "technical water" since it is not certified or sanitized for drinking, is typically only from evaporators, as the systems require distilled water. Usually, not even water desalinated using reverse osmosis is used for technical water. The technical water has its own storage tank, and its own supply piping, since it is not chlorinated before going into the tank, and its own dedicated piping system and pumps.

The main laundry frequently uses the condensation from the main AC air handlers (this can account for 200-400 metric tons/day) as the water supply for the washing machines. This water is also not chlorinated, therefore not potable, and has its own storage tank and pumps and piping.

The galley garbage disposals are part of a centralized system that pumps water up to the various disposals around the ship to flush the food waste from the disposal, and all of this food waste and water collects in a tank, the food is separated out, and the water pumped back to the disposals. This water, called "pulper water" may be sourced from treated waste water, but only if the ship has an Advanced Waste Water Treatment plant, that treats the black and gray water drains from the ship to near pure drinking water quality.

A ship will typically have 10-12 potable water tanks. One or two of these will be in use supplying all the ship's needs at any time. Water made onboard will typically be used to fill empty tanks, for future use throughout the ship. Water produced onboard is chlorinated before it goes into the potable water tanks, but if production is diverted to the technical water tank, it is not chlorinated. Water loaded in port is also chlorinated before it goes to the tanks, and must be held separate and not used until a coliform bacteria test comes back negative, which takes 18-24 hours, which is one major reason ships prefer to make water over bunkering it. Regardless of whose ship sanitation regime the ship is operating under, or which class society underwrites the ship, there can be no physical connection between the potable water system and any other system onboard. Even to fill the technical water tank from the evaporators, which also supply the potable water system, there is an open ended pipe leading to a funnel which goes to the technical water tank, so there can be no cross-contamination.

Now, cost of water production or bunkering. For water bunkered in port, as an example, the Port of Miami charges about $3 per metric ton (from their tariff schedule, $2.95/250 gal). Water produced by flash evaporation onboard is virtually free, as the most significant energy source is waste heat from the running diesel engines' cooling water, maintenance cost around $1/ton. Reverse Osmosis watermakers use more electrical energy, and no heat, so their operating expense goes up, but maintenance cost goes down, so around $1.50-$2.00/ton.

All very deep with some of the answers but at the end of the day it is not right and you should expect and get a better shower facility than was provided. It should have been reported, which I have no doubt it was, whilst onboard at reception and then if after an acceptable period I would be down to reception and ask to see an officer from the relevant department and want answers to what problem was why hasnt it improved and what are they going to do about it.

Okay, lots of misinformation here. I'll deal with OP's original complaint first.

<snip>

Thank you, chengkp75.

After years of "sea showers", I still feel guilty taking a "hotel shower" while on a cruise.

I also get a kick out of all the self proclaimed experts.

Chenkp75.

WOW! I love reading your post. Lots of great info. Thanks for posting.

Okay, lots of misinformation here. I'll deal with OP's original complaint first.

 

The dribble from the shower head could be from two problems.

 

As for water distribution, I'm not disputing what the OP was told on the ship tour, but I am disputing that it was correct. There are not separate water systems for sinks, showers, galleys, and toilets. There is one system, as you will see if you ever pass by a sanitary locker (the service door outside your cabin where the plumbing is accessed), you will see cold water lines branching off one supply line to the sink, shower, and toilet. If you had a separate system to supply toilets alone, this would require several more miles of piping around the ship, plus additional pumps and tankage, all capital expenses. As the toilet uses only 1 liter/flush, it is a very small source of consumption. With the exception of: engine room non-drinking fresh water systems, main laundry, and galley disposal water, all of the water onboard is piped from the same tanks, and uses the same piping.

Whenever I see a post from you I make it a point to read it because I have learned so much from these posts. Thank you for contributing.

I have a question regarding an experience from our last cruise. The water in our cabin was very hot, that's the sink, shower and toilet. After flushing the toilet, if you lifted the seat cover you could feel the heat. We had to be cautious to avoid burning ourselves when using the lavatory or the shower.We reported it and there was some change but we still ended up with very hot water so we had to make sure the temp controls were turned to the coldest possible.

So the question(s) I have are:

1. Why would the hot water get so hot? Defective thermostat? Or set too high?
   
2. Would hot water in the toilet mean that the connections were reversed and instead of being connected to the cold water, it was to the hot?
   

We reported the issues to our cabin steward and we do know that maintenance did something but we never actually saw or spoke with the maintenance people directly and our wonderful steward didn't know what they did, only that they did something.

We're going on the same ship next week and have the same cabin so it will be interesting to find out if the same thing is still occurring.

It seems that most pax do not understand the financial aspects of making fresh water on a cruise ship.

 

First, you need to understand that people living and traveling on a cruise ship use a lot of fresh water; about one cubic meter, or one ton, of water per person, per day.

 

Fresh potable water is not cheap to make or buy. If the ship produces it from sea water, it costs around US$60 per ton to produce. If they are able to purchase it in port, the cost drops to around US$40 per ton. If the ship carries 3,000 pax and 1,500 crew, the cruise line is going to spend between $180,000 and $270,000 per day for fresh water.

 

Cruise lines are in the habit of cutting costs as much as they can.

Most mass market lines have installed water saving reducers on their shower lines, and have reduced onboard water pressure. Both these ideas save a substantial amount of water - and money.

 

They have also made water consumption a major element in computing the annual bonuses for Captains and Chief Engineers. The more water that is saved results in higher annual earnings for the Captain and Chief.

 

Most of the time, the poor water pressure is not a major problem for cruisers. But if you happen to get a cabin at the end of the water main, or your shower head has a problem, you are out of luck. The video posted by the OP looks like a shower at the end of the water line. There is not sufficient pressure there to push out enough water. It's not going to get better. The Princess Chief Engineer is not going to sacrifice his annual bonus to improve your experience.

Numbers do not add up. Lets say each passenger uses 50 gallons per day (this is the low end of water use per person per day in the US. I chose the low end because the figure includes things like watering lawns, normal toilets, standard showers, etc. That is approximately 450 pounds of water. If it costs $60 to make fresh water (which as I understand it is produced largely by using a flash evaporation process using waste heat from the engines/generators) then even assuming crew uses the same amount, then 3000 passengers and 1500 crew would use 2,025,000 pounds of water or 1,012.5 tons or $60,750.

There would be additional freshwater use elsewhere in the ship that would add some additional use but no way to estimate that.

If one doubles the amount to $100 gallons for total use you would only get $121,500 still far less than your number.

If the cost of production is lower then the cost would drop significantly. I would expect to be no more than $5 per ton and probably less, but using that as an estimate you would get a cost in the neighbor hood of $10,125 per day as an absolute max.

Whenever I see a post from you I make it a point to read it because I have learned so much from these posts. Thank you for contributing.

 

I have a question regarding an experience from our last cruise. The water in our cabin was very hot, that's the sink, shower and toilet. After flushing the toilet, if you lifted the seat cover you could feel the heat. We had to be cautious to avoid burning ourselves when using the lavatory or the shower.We reported it and there was some change but we still ended up with very hot water so we had to make sure the temp controls were turned to the coldest possible.

 

So the question(s) I have are:

1. Why would the hot water get so hot? Defective thermostat? Or set too high?
   
2. Would hot water in the toilet mean that the connections were reversed and instead of being connected to the cold water, it was to the hot?
   

We reported the issues to our cabin steward and we do know that maintenance did something but we never actually saw or spoke with the maintenance people directly and our wonderful steward didn't know what they did, only that they did something.

 

We're going on the same ship next week and have the same cabin so it will be interesting to find out if the same thing is still occurring.

What is happening there is that the engineers are recirculating the potable water from one tank and back to the same tank. The constant movement of the water by the pump, and the friction in the pipes will warm the cold water (and the reason the water never "runs cold" is that the pipes are not buried in the ground where the temp is never above 50*, but is circulated through the hot engine room and the 75* hotel). Constant recirculation will produce this hot "cold" water. They should be taking water from one tank and returning it to another, allowing the water to cool off in the return tank. Then when the water has essentially transferred from the supply tank to the return tank (minus what was used), they can then switch to taking suction from the return tank and return to the original supply tank, until they need to get more water in the system from another tank.

And the mixing valves on the showers works on pressure, not temperature. If the cold water is low pressure, it will restrict the hot water to equal out and keep from scalding. But if the "cold" water is actually hot, and at normal pressure, the mixing valve thinks all is okay and allows full flow of hot water.

chengkp75 to the rescue.

I’m a technically inept female, but your explanations are always understandable!

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What is happening there is that the engineers are recirculating the potable water from one tank and back to the same tank. The constant movement of the water by the pump, and the friction in the pipes will warm the cold water (and the reason the water never "runs cold" is that the pipes are not buried in the ground where the temp is never above 50*, but is circulated through the hot engine room and the 75* hotel). Constant recirculation will produce this hot "cold" water. They should be taking water from one tank and returning it to another, allowing the water to cool off in the return tank. Then when the water has essentially transferred from the supply tank to the return tank (minus what was used), they can then switch to taking suction from the return tank and return to the original supply tank, until they need to get more water in the system from another tank.

 

 

And the mixing valves on the showers works on pressure, not temperature. If the cold water is low pressure, it will restrict the hot water to equal out and keep from scalding. But if the "cold" water is actually hot, and at normal pressure, the mixing valve thinks all is okay and allows full flow of hot water.

Those mixing valves quite often get stuck & need replacement or adjustment.

What is happening ....

 

And the mixing valves on the showers works on pressure, not temperature. If the cold water is low pressure, it will restrict the hot water to equal out and keep from scalding. But if the "cold" water is actually hot, and at normal pressure, the mixing valve thinks all is okay and allows full flow of hot water.

Thank you.

Your ability to translate techno-speak to easily understood language for the non-techies is amazing. If you were a speaker onboard, I'd attend everyone of your sessions. I love cruising and really like reading and learning about what really happens on a ship.

WOW! That shower flow was certainly not acceptable! You certainly did right to complain to your steward, but when that did not get you results you should have quickly elevated your complaint to Guest Relations. If not successful then you pay a polite return visit to Guest Relations, tell them your shower is not acceptable, and ask for a meeting with the Hotel Manager. Keep a record of your visits and requests to be later used if you get no satisfaction.

Many years ago we had a similar shower problem on a Princess ship. This was in the days when formal meant formal. Since our shower barely worked I took a bar of soap, put on my robe, went to the pool deck, and took a decent shower at one of the pool showers. I then walked down to Guest Relations in my robe (still dripping wet) and explained to the somewhat flustered staff that my shower did not work, attempts to get them to have it fixed had not worked, and we were having dinner with the Captain that evening (true). What made this more effective was that many of the early diners were out and about (near Guest Relations) in their finest...while we were in our dripping robe :). A bit drastic, but it helped to make our point. When we returned to our cabin after dinner our cabin had been completely flooded, the carpet was drenched and covered in towels, but our shower was fixed :).

Hank

Thank you Chief for your great reply - I did not think a lot of the earlier explanations were correct.

Off topic - but could I request from you an explanation of the rules coming in 2020 regarding the low sulphur bunker fuel that all ships are going to be using.

Does the fitting of additional exhaust equipment allow use of the current fuel?

With the increase in bunker costs over the last few years, increased cost of low sulphur fuel & fitting of extra equipment - do you think it will put up cruise costs for passengers?

Thanks