U.S. Re-entry - Jones Act

We are currently on the Celebrity Solsctice Alaskan cruise Seattle to Vancouver. An Australian passenger on cruise is doing B2B to Sydney. I coincidently went to school with her. She has found out she has to disembark here Juneau then fly to Vancover and re-embarke in Vancouver. It it because of the Jones Act. Apparently her travel agent is organising it for her.

Wouldn't be the Jones Act maybe the PVSA.

If you can go Seattle to Vancouver, can't see any reaon she can't.

And a cruise to Australia, I am pretty sure would involve a distant Foreign Port.

To be honest I am puzzled at exactly what you are suggesting.

Wouldn't be the Jones Act maybe the PVSA.

 

 

 

If you can go Seattle to Vancouver, can't see any reaon she can't.

 

 

 

And a cruise to Australia, I am pretty sure would involve a distant Foreign Port.

 

 

 

To be honest I am puzzled at exactly what you are suggesting.

In the USA I understand you cant embark on the second cruise if the first cruise hasn't been to a distant overseas (non USA) port.

Vancouver is not considered distant.

If she's getting off in Australia there is no reason she has to disembark but she does if she's getting off in Hawaii. If she is going to AU someone needs to escalate this quick as its wrong. Nothing wrong with a Seattle to Sydney sailing. And what they're proposing is illegal. You cannot sail from Seattle to Juneau

In the USA I understand you cant embark on the second cruise if the first cruise hasn't been to a distant overseas (non USA) port.

Vancouver is not considered distant.

Irrelevant. It's where you board and where you disembark. This is not 2 different US ports. PVSA does not apply.

Given she is already onboard it must be the cruiseline who is advising her now.

We are currently on the Celebrity Solsctice Alaskan cruise Seattle to Vancouver. An Australian passenger on cruise is doing B2B to Sydney. I coincidently went to school with her. She has found out she has to disembark here Juneau then fly to Vancover and re-embarke in Vancouver. It it because of the Jones Act. Apparently her travel agent is organising it for her.

I trust the TA will be paying for it as it is her mistake. It is an old and an antiquated law that no one wants to take the responsibility of cancelling.

Travel Agents are , or should be, very well aware of it .

I have heard of cases where people have booked direct and if it does not qualify with the Act , the cruise line have refused to accept the booking as they will be fined.

Given she is already onboard it must be the cruiseline who is advising her now.

Yes she was advised by Celebrity.

This is so bizarre and so wrong. What she had planned is totally legal but what they're asking her to do is illegal. Are you 100% sure she is on until Australia?

This is so bizarre and so wrong. What she had planned is totally legal but what they're asking her to do is illegal. Are you 100% sure she is on until Australia?

Yes

I'd get it in writing from Celebrity that what they are asking her to do breaks the PVSA and that they'll be responsible for the $300 fine.

as others are saying it is not the Jones act, but PVSA, that prevents boarding and departing two different US ports without a distant foreign port in between, and if your friend is travelling all the way to Sydney, it is perfectly legal.

Around this same time last year we (along with around 30 others) sailed on Rhapsody: Seattle - Vancouver, Vancouver - Honolulu, Honolulu - Sydney. We had to have this cleared by RC at the time, as they didn't seem to sure, but it was perfectly fine.

What was not allowed was ending the trip in Honolulu. So there were NO B2B'ers on the 1st two legs, just us B2B2B'ers on all 3.

Note: we did leave the ship during turnaround day in both Vancouver & Honolulu. Not sure if the authorties would have tracked us down if we didn't reboard in those ports??:D

I trust your friend can sort this - as, as someone else wrote, what Celebrity are proposing is 100% illegal!

This is so bizarre and so wrong. What she had planned is totally legal but what they're asking her to do is illegal. Are you 100% sure she is on until Australia?

I wonder if OP has it the wrong way around??

In the USA I understand you cant embark on the second cruise if the first cruise hasn't been to a distant overseas (non USA) port.

Vancouver is not considered distant.

This is correct. We sailed Princess LA to Vancouver, but were not allowed to continue on, on same ship, Vancouver to Whittier. We had to stay overnight (which we did and booked another cruise leaving the next day to continue on up the coast). Our TA knew about this law luckily. We did however, hear onboard of others being told they had to disembark in Vanc, or boarding in LA would be denied. Princess were well aware of the rules, so I imagine Celebrity would be too.

I can only assume that this law is so intricate, that when it comes down to sailing further afield to Sydney......well, the employees just aren't aware. Def take this further, and get it right.

Hi,

My partner and I are doing 3 b2b cruises next year.

Our travel agent checked into it. Because we leave from Sydney..that's the foreign port.

Sydney to Hawaii..Hawaii to Vancouver then Vancouver to Seattle via Alaska.

Lets hope they got it right ;)

Hi,

My partner and I are doing 3 b2b cruises next year.

Our travel agent checked into it. Because we leave from Sydney..that's the foreign port.

Sydney to Hawaii..Hawaii to Vancouver then Vancouver to Seattle via Alaska.

 

Lets hope they got it right ;)

Have been following this topic as being an Australian I am unfamiliar with the Jones Act.

Your cruises are similar to what I would like to do from Sydney and if possible, cruise back to Sydney, so will be keen to know if it is ok to do :)

Enjoy your cruises webstar104 :)

Our travel agent checked into it. Because we leave from Sydney..that's the foreign port.

Sydney to Hawaii..Hawaii to Vancouver then Vancouver to Seattle via Alaska.

 

Lets hope they got it right ;)

I suggest your TA has got it wrong. Departing from Sydney has zero to do with it. Departing from Hawaii & arriving to Seattle will break the rules. The rule precludes departing a US port (Honolulu) on a non-US flagged vessel & get to getting off in a different US port (Seattle) without visiting a distant foreign port - Vancouver doesn't comply.

Please have them check again

I suggest your TA has got it wrong. Departing from Sydney has zero to do with it. Departing from Hawaii & arriving to Seattle will break the rules. The rule precludes departing a US port (Honolulu) on a non-US flagged vessel & get to getting off in a different US port (Seattle) without visiting a distant foreign port - Vancouver doesn't comply.

Please have them check again

But since they are 3 b2b segments wouldn't that be considered one journey (Sydney to Seattle)? If this is the case they should be OK. Most Americans, myself included, wish they would do away with these antiquated laws as they really have no relevance in this day and age and have caused plenty of travel headaches, as indicated by this thread!

I suggest your TA has got it wrong. Departing from Sydney has zero to do with it. Departing from Hawaii & arriving to Seattle will break the rules. The rule precludes departing a US port (Honolulu) on a non-US flagged vessel & get to getting off in a different US port (Seattle) without visiting a distant foreign port - Vancouver doesn't comply.

Please have them check again

You are correct. We confirmed with an officer on the ship. Just an update the passenger was getting off the ship in Hawaii. So she had to disembark in Juneanu and fly to Vancouver to re board the ship. She missed cruising the inside passage, a sea day and two ports Victoria and Nanaimo.

There seems to be a lot of confusion with the PVSA Act. For instance my travel agent originally told me my trip from Seward to Vancouver and back to Seward would break the 'rules'! When it comes to interpreting Acts I always find it best to go straight to the source legislation or government regulations that relate to the relevant Act. What can I say I am a nerd who used to be public servant! Hence I found this when researching (i.e. googling!) the PVSA -

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title19-vol1/pdf/CFR-2012-title19-vol1-sec4-80a.pdf

My reading of it is that you must 'embark' at a 'Coastwise Port' for the Act to actually apply to you in the first place - see Paragraph 5 (b). A Coastwise Port is defined as a port in the US or its territories etc - see Paragraph 1. And here is the crucial bit, the term 'embark' (and importantly 'disembark') does NOT apply if you are a passenger going ashore tempoarily at a Coastwise Port and you then hop back on the ship and continue sailing - see Paragraph 4.

So what does all this mean? Basically if you hop on in Sydney and travel to Honolulu (and then on to say Seward or Whittier) the PVSA Act does not apply to you in any way, shape or form. You did not 'embark' in a Coastwise Port (i.e. Honolulu) as you only went ashore temporarily at Honolulu and then continued sailing on the same ship. You 'embarked' in Sydney which is obviously not a Coastwise Port!

Travelling in reverse the Act does apply to you BUT you do not breach the Act if you travel through to Sydney because you do not 'disembark' in the Coastwise Port of Honolulu - i.e. you only go ashore there temporarily and then reboard the vessel and continue on to Sydney.

In summary you are in breach of the PVSA Act if you are on a non-US vessel (defined in Paragraph 5b) and you -

(1) Embark at a Coastwise Port and then

(2) Disembark at a different Coastwise Port without

(3) Visiting a distant foreign port (defined in Paragraphs 2 and 3) between your point of embarkation and disembarkation.

In addition you cannot use a non-US vessel to travel from one Coastwise Port to another if ONLY other Coastwise Ports are visited on the cruise (see Paragraph 1 in the second column). This is why cruises from say Seward end in Vancouver. A cruise from Seward to Juneau ending in Ketchikan would breach the PVSA Act because all the places visited are Coastwise Ports.

I hope this has been helpful. Happy to hear any comments on where you think I may have gone wrong in my interpretations! :)

There seems to be a lot of confusion with the PVSA Act. For instance my travel agent originally told me my trip from Seward to Vancouver and back to Seward would break the 'rules'! When it comes to interpreting Acts I always find it best to go straight to the source legislation or government regulations that relate to the relevant Act. What can I say I am a nerd who used to be public servant! Hence I found this when researching (i.e. googling!) the PVSA -

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title19-vol1/pdf/CFR-2012-title19-vol1-sec4-80a.pdf

 

My reading of it is that you must 'embark' at a 'Coastwise Port' for the Act to actually apply to you in the first place - see Paragraph 5 (b). A Coastwise Port is defined as a port in the US or its territories etc - see Paragraph 1. And here is the crucial bit, the term 'embark' (and importantly 'disembark') does NOT apply if you are a passenger going ashore tempoarily at a Coastwise Port and you then hop back on the ship and continue sailing - see Paragraph 4.

 

So what does all this mean? Basically if you hop on in Sydney and travel to Honolulu (and then on to say Seward or Whittier) the PVSA Act does not apply to you in any way, shape or form. You did not 'embark' in a Coastwise Port (i.e. Honolulu) as you only went ashore temporarily at Honolulu and then continued sailing on the same ship. You 'embarked' in Sydney which is obviously not a Coastwise Port!

 

Travelling in reverse the Act does apply to you BUT you do not breach the Act if you travel through to Sydney because you do not 'disembark' in the Coastwise Port of Honolulu - i.e. you only go ashore there temporarily and then reboard the vessel and continue on to Sydney.

 

In summary you are in breach of the PVSA Act if you are on a non-US vessel (defined in Paragraph 5b) and you -

 

(1) Embark at a Coastwise Port and then

(2) Disembark at a different Coastwise Port without

(3) Visiting a distant foreign port (defined in Paragraphs 2 and 3) between your point of embarkation and disembarkation.

 

In addition you cannot use a non-US vessel to travel from one Coastwise Port to another if ONLY other Coastwise Ports are visited on the cruise (see Paragraph 1 in the second column). This is why cruises from say Seward end in Vancouver. A cruise from Seward to Juneau ending in Ketchikan would breach the PVSA Act because all the places visited are Coastwise Ports.

 

I hope this has been helpful. Happy to hear any comments on where you think I may have gone wrong in my interpretations! :)

That's seems spot on.

Not only that it lines up with reality, the cruise lines do repositioning cruises every year from America to Australia, most if not all stop at Hawaii some interpretations on CC would make that a breech of the PVSA.

It is all about where the cruise starts and finishes. Or more accurately I guess where the passenger starts and finishes.

That's seems spot on.

 

Not only that it lines up with reality, the cruise lines do repositioning cruises every year from America to Australia, most if not all stop at Hawaii some interpretations on CC would make that a breech of the PVSA.

 

It is all about where the cruise starts and finishes. Or more accurately I guess where the passenger starts and finishes.

I just read all that and now my head hurts.

I suggest your TA has got it wrong. Departing from Sydney has zero to do with it. Departing from Hawaii & arriving to Seattle will break the rules. The rule precludes departing a US port (Honolulu) on a non-US flagged vessel & get to getting off in a different US port (Seattle) without visiting a distant foreign port - Vancouver doesn't comply.

Please have them check again

Sydney has everything to do with it. It's where you first embark and where you finally disembark. If they're not two different US ports you don't have a problem as the PVSA does not apply.