Passports, get them ordered now

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1,901 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Travelcat2
I wasn't going to post this on this particular thread but when I went to thread that asks if anyone from cruise ships has being detained..... I felt like I entered a war zone. Posters on that thread are bashing everything and everyone. Thankfully I can post here and, while some may disagree with me and debate the issues, you are all doing so in a kind way.

Okay - so, as you have probably heard on the news or read online, there were people detained in Port Canaveral today due to the "ban" (they were later released). I tried doing research and learned that at least some (if not all) of the passengers were on Majesty of the Seas on a closed-loop itinerary. The target people seemed to be Permanent Residents (i.e. Green Card) and in one case, had children born in the U.S. This could be one indication that closed-loop cruises may be targeted. Guess we'll learn more tomorrow, or the next day or ...............................
Disagree. Seems more like a case of "Correlations doesn't equate causation". Now, if you can show that everyone who just used a BC was detained (or even a majority), you might have a case. What about the other ships that were on closed loop cruises? Surely they had folks traveling with just BC.
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Washington State
22,863 Posts
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Originally posted by sparks1093
Yes, it has been a civil debate and it's been refreshing. One last question- when DHS runs that phony drivers license number through the DMV database what do you think will happen? My guess is that it's not going to match any issued drivers license number and that particular passenger will face some questions when they return (which answers the question I asked before regarding why those folks with those great IDs don't just apply for passports- when the State Department checks the license it will result in a non-match).
Assuming that people with phony licenses are still using the information of deceased people, and if the DMV database is not up to date, they will get information for the deceased person. In this scenario, the person with the phony documents would have back-up documents showing the same name, etc. As mentioned earlier, it took DMV 10 years to stop sending out Handicapped placards to us after my mother-in-law passed away (by the time they stopped sending them, she would have been 109).

S.A.M.J.R. - you are probably right -- I jumped to the wrong conclusion. They picked a closed loop cruise so I started making assumptions (probably because I believe that every U.S. citizen that enters the U.S. should have a passport).
Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Assuming that people with phony licenses are still using the information of deceased people, and if the DMV database is not up to date, they will get information for the deceased person. In this scenario, the person with the phony documents would have back-up documents showing the same name, etc. As mentioned earlier, it took DMV 10 years to stop sending out Handicapped placards to us after my mother-in-law passed away (by the time they stopped sending them, she would have been 109).

S.A.M.J.R. - you are probably right -- I jumped to the wrong conclusion. They picked a closed loop cruise so I started making assumptions (probably because I believe that every U.S. citizen that enters the U.S. should have a passport).
IF they had the deceased person's old DL and used the same DL number then it might work (if that license hasn't expired). I think it's probably safer to say that the DL number is just made up and isn't going to match anything in the DMV database. All the demographic information would have to be an exact match also (same gender as the deceased person, same age, etc.). It seems to me that it is a huge stretch to think that this is such a serious issue that it warrants requiring passports (and again, if that phony DL is so good then that's what the holder should be applying for with it). A DL is not a handicap placard.
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Washington State
22,863 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
IF they had the deceased person's old DL and used the same DL number then it might work (if that license hasn't expired). I think it's probably safer to say that the DL number is just made up and isn't going to match anything in the DMV database. All the demographic information would have to be an exact match also (same gender as the deceased person, same age, etc.). It seems to me that it is a huge stretch to think that this is such a serious issue that it warrants requiring passports (and again, if that phony DL is so good then that's what the holder should be applying for with it). A DL is not a handicap placard.
I think we're back to having to agree to disagree again. The DL thing I described above was used a lot when I lived in California. It makes no sense to make up a number as it would be quickly discovered. Regardless of all of the above, IMO, all U.S. citizens should have a passport when they leave the U.S. and plan on returning. There is no reason not to and lots of reasons to have it (for instance, if the woman with two children born in the U.S. had obtained citizenship and had a passport, they would not have been detained).

Will try to stay away from this thread as I think we've discussed this thoroughly and people can decide on their own whether to get a passport or not.
Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
I think we're back to having to agree to disagree again. The DL thing I described above was used a lot when I lived in California. It makes no sense to make up a number as it would be quickly discovered. Regardless of all of the above, IMO, all U.S. citizens should have a passport when they leave the U.S. and plan on returning. There is no reason not to and lots of reasons to have it (for instance, if the woman with two children born in the U.S. had obtained citizenship and had a passport, they would not have been detained).

Will try to stay away from this thread as I think we've discussed this thoroughly and people can decide on their own whether to get a passport or not.
I'm sure that phony DL's are used a lot in situations where they aren't going to be scrutinized too closely by law enforcement and I guess I have more faith in the system being able to pick them up then you do (and I will point out yet again that if that DL is that good then your notion of requiring passports of everyone goes out the window because they have, according to you anyway, all the documentation they need to get a passport).

As long as there are legal choices regarding documentation I think that people should choose the best documentation that meets their travel needs. If someone only crosses the land border into Canada regularly there is no reason for them to have a passport when a passport card (or EDL if available) will do (I know many in my community that fit that description, they will never travel out of the country any other way.)
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
Washington State
22,863 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
I'm sure that phony DL's are used a lot in situations where they aren't going to be scrutinized too closely by law enforcement and I guess I have more faith in the system being able to pick them up then you do (and I will point out yet again that if that DL is that good then your notion of requiring passports of everyone goes out the window because they have, according to you anyway, all the documentation they need to get a passport).

As long as there are legal choices regarding documentation I think that people should choose the best documentation that meets their travel needs. If someone only crosses the land border into Canada regularly there is no reason for them to have a passport when a passport card (or EDL if available) will do (I know many in my community that fit that description, they will never travel out of the country any other way.)

Okay - my bad - I checked this thread again and have to strongly disagree about both passports and passport cards. You need to have a passport in order to have a NEXUS card, this card will allow you to bypass the long lines at the U.S./Canadian border as well as being able to bypass the long lines at the airports when returning to the U.S.

You have every right to feel that having the minimal documentation to enter the U.S. is okay while I have the same right to feel that U.S. citizens without a passport are wasting the time of border agents that need to spend their time scrutinizing birth certificates and drivers' licenses who should be paying attention to non-citizens visiting the U.S.

Since the written word can easily be misconstrued, please know that I am not making this post out of anger. For this post only, I will show my signature which may (or may not indicate how long we have been traveling internationally). In addition to our cruises (only since 2004), we did around 18 years of "land" international travel. We are fortunate enough to have been to 90+ countries. So, my experience is quite extensive. It is due to our experience that I feel so strongly about U.S. citizens having passports.
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Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Okay - my bad - I checked this thread again and have to strongly disagree about both passports and passport cards. You need to have a passport in order to have a NEXUS card, this card will allow you to bypass the long lines at the U.S./Canadian border as well as being able to bypass the long lines at the airports when returning to the U.S.

You have every right to feel that having the minimal documentation to enter the U.S. is okay while I have the same right to feel that U.S. citizens without a passport are wasting the time of border agents that need to spend their time scrutinizing birth certificates and drivers' licenses who should be paying attention to non-citizens visiting the U.S.

Since the written word can easily be misconstrued, please know that I am not making this post out of anger. For this post only, I will show my signature which may (or may not indicate how long we have been traveling internationally). In addition to our cruises (only since 2004), we did around 18 years of "land" international travel. We are fortunate enough to have been to 90+ countries. So, my experience is quite extensive. It is due to our experience that I feel so strongly about U.S. citizens having passports.
I understand fully where you are coming from and wish my travels were as extensive, but you do have see that everyone doesn't have the same travel needs that you do. There are some people that never travel outside the US at all. There are some like you that travel extensively. And there are those in the middle that have differing needs, wants and desires. I may not have traveled as extensively as you but I have traveled all over the world and have only needed a passport for our trip to Germany in 2015 (since I did not need a passport for my military service travel). You are of course free to disagree with EDLs and passport cards (which is what I suspect you meant to say in your first line) but the regulations are what they are and the people that get them have to submit the same documentation that is required to obtain a passport.

If those phony DLs you talk about are really as good as you say they are then requiring passports won't fix the problem because the people using those phony DL's could use them to apply for passports (which requires the same documentation to be submitted as what is submitted on a closed loop cruise).
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
Washington State
22,863 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Discussing only your last paragraph....... there would be no need for phony DL's if everyone traveling outside of the U.S. had a passport. And, for those who do not travel outside of the U.S., they also don't need a passport. So, I am only talking about U.S. citizens that do not have passports and travel outside of the U.S. (whether by car or by cruise ship since airplane travel already has this requirement).

Thank you for an enjoyable debate!
Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Discussing only your last paragraph....... there would be no need for phony DL's if everyone traveling outside of the U.S. had a passport. And, for those who do not travel outside of the U.S., they also don't need a passport. So, I am only talking about U.S. citizens that do not have passports and travel outside of the U.S. (whether by car or by cruise ship since airplane travel already has this requirement).

Thank you for an enjoyable debate!
You've missed the point. The phony DL would be needed to obtain a passport in the phony name and if it can stand up to official scrutiny then why wouldn't they just get a passport? Do you think that if someone was going to leave the country on a phony DL on a closed loop cruise that they wouldn't do the same if a passport was required and they had the documentation needed to obtain one? This is the end result of what you claim. I believe that if a phony DL is presented on a closed loop cruise it will very quickly be detected by DHS, just as it would be detected if the same license were to be submitted to obtain a passport.

Keep in mind that the purpose of any documentation is to prove someone's citizenship in order to re-enter the country (and of course one would need the right documentation to enter another country). My citizenship is proved by my birth certificate, whether I am presenting it to board a closed loop cruise or presenting it to get a passport (I did in fact use my current birth certificate to do both, in addition to using it to get an EDL).

Yes, you have helped make this an interesting thread and debate.
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
1,901 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Travelcat2
You have every right to feel that having the minimal documentation to enter the U.S. is okay while I have the same right to feel that U.S. citizens without a passport are wasting the time of border agents that need to spend their time scrutinizing birth certificates and drivers' licenses who should be paying attention to non-citizens visiting the U.S.
OK, why? Someone who is visiting the US to go on a closed loop cruise already had their ID examined when they entered the US. I still don't see a benefit to requiring passports for closed loop cruises.

I don't understand why someone would fake a DL and BC to go on a closed loop cruise. Sorry, I'm not buying the "so they can bring illegal substances back to the US." If they're going to bring back illegal substances (whether drugs, explosives, or something else), wouldn't they do the same with a passport?
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Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
You have every right to feel that having the minimal documentation to enter the U.S. is okay while I have the same right to feel that U.S. citizens without a passport are wasting the time of border agents that need to spend their time scrutinizing birth certificates and drivers' licenses who should be paying attention to non-citizens visiting the U.S.
I missed responding to this part of your post and apologize for resurrecting it, but it's not a matter of who feels what, the regulations are in place and they aren't subject to a vote. The vetting of ALL passengers on a closed loop cruise is done by CBP while the cruise is ongoing, it isn't done by the CBP officer at disembarkation.
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
Washington State
22,863 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
I missed responding to this part of your post and apologize for resurrecting it, but it's not a matter of who feels what, the regulations are in place and they aren't subject to a vote. The vetting of ALL passengers on a closed loop cruise is done by CBP while the cruise is ongoing, it isn't done by the CBP officer at disembarkation.
Decided to check this thread - despite my plans not to. Do not disagree about the regulations in place but must comment about the fact that there wasn't a "ban" on many countries in the Middle East a week ago. Anything can change - particularly as it pertains to securing the borders of the U.S. IF passports were suddenly required for closed loop cruises (or even for people using EDL to drive across the border) some people that currently do not have a passport and travel out of the country may wish that they had obtained one.

If you have a last word, go for it
Enosburg Falls, VT
17,670 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Decided to check this thread - despite my plans not to. Do not disagree about the regulations in place but must comment about the fact that there wasn't a "ban" on many countries in the Middle East a week ago. Anything can change - particularly as it pertains to securing the borders of the U.S. IF passports were suddenly required for closed loop cruises (or even for people using EDL to drive across the border) some people that currently do not have a passport and travel out of the country may wish that they had obtained one.

If you have a last word, go for it
IF.

Yes, things can and do change but the last time it changed it took something like 2 or 3 years for it all to be implemented. The REAL ID Act was supposed to have been fully implemented several years ago. There is a big difference between what the government can do as it relates to foreign visitors to the country and what it can do as it relates to its own citizens. As I've said before, if I did not already have a passport I would not let current events panic me into getting one. I prefer to make as many decisions as I can based on reason and logic then fear of what might happen.
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I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
Virginia
85 Posts
Joined Oct 2005
Just wanted to let people know also check with your city they do passport if you don't want to wait long lines at post office
I know I took a friend today to our city hall they do no appointment require from 9 to 11:30 on Wednesday other day it is an appointment I know all cities may not do it but check into it if your post office is booked I know my friend would of had to wait until the end of February to get an appoitment with the post office it was nice going in today I think it took us around an hour so the wait was not bad
Palm Harbor, FL
4,683 Posts
Joined Nov 2001
We applied for our passports the week after 9/11.

During my career as an licensed professional engineer, charged with a legal responsibility to protect the heath and welfare of the public, the insurance people and lawyers always told us to be sure to do what was prudent (wise) not just what is minimally required by law. The lawyers question in court would be "Did you do what at least your peers would do and were you prudent in your design decisions?"

There is minimal and there is prudent. I therefore chose to be prudent as my closed loop cruises actually visit foreign countries, at which I get off the ship and walk around.

Take some time to read what is written inside the passport. The US government is kindly asking the foreign governments to extend courtesy and protection to us as visitors. We have no legal standing in a foreign country. My birth certificate and/or drivers license are pretty meaningless in a foreign country.

I'd rather be prudent...just say'n.
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Memphis,TN
1,061 Posts
Joined Jan 2005
Just sent mine in this week. My niece said hers took two weeks to get hers renewed. Used the app on my phone for passport photo which sent it to Walgreens to print.


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Kari
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Memphis,TN
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Joined Jan 2005
Update check was cashed. I should see my passport soon.


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Kari
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Lake Erie's South Shore
3,896 Posts
Joined Mar 2008
Originally posted by sunshinechgo
Just sent mine in this week. My niece said hers took two weeks to get hers renewed. Used the app on my phone for passport photo which sent it to Walgreens to print.


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Originally posted by sunshinechgo
Update check was cashed. I should see my passport soon.


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Ours arrived yesterday after mailing them in on Friday 2/3.
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