After further consideration....the American Table is not good.

We had a fun cruise on the Breeze over Thanksgiving week. My wife plans everything and did a great job. I had heard her mention the American Table and that is was coming out on the Breeze. I didn't think much about it. Now, having experienced it and had time to think about it, I am going to say that the American Table it is NOT A STEP FORWARD. I apologize in advance for the length and the poor grammar and bad writing in general, but here is the draft of the letter I will be sending to Carnival.

Let's discuss.....

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Dear Carnival Guest Services:

This is kind of long and I apologize. As a fan of Carnival, I wanted to make sure I covered all my points.

We just got back from a great 8 day cruise on the Breeze for Thanksgiving week. We've cruised with Carnival now 7 times. We fly in from Chicago to Florida and have cruised from Port Canaveral and Miami. Our family is 4. Two 50 year olds, mom and dad, and 2 boys, 14 and almost 16. We really love the cruise line. We even have bought stock in it and continue to do so. We like CCL!

After getting home from our 8 day and getting back to "normal life", we all sat down and talked about the best parts of the cruise. There were many. The shows, our snorkeling excursion in Grand Turk, our room location in the Spa area. Good live music with a horn trio and a violin trio. The humorous Matt and his staff and the generally fantastic service.

But, there was one topic that we all agreed upon that was less than wonderful. Not terrible. It won't cause us to quit Carnival. We are booked on the Vista for December of 2016. The subject is the American Table experience.

We talked about our highs of the trip and food was a topic. However, the more we talked the more the topic of the dining room came up. We had Your Time dining and generally were in the first 30 people to the restaurant. We asked for the same wait staff as they were nice and friendly. We even got the same table right by the starboard windows. Our main waiter was Raj...short for Rajesh I believe. He was nice.

So, what could be wrong? Good food, nice staff...good table location...all good right? Well, not exactly. If I had to sum it up our main dining room experience on this cruise in one word I would say "awkward".

Awkward because the long time tradition and practices in the dining room have changed for the worse. I believe that the changes made to incorporate the American Table experience have damaged the Carnival brand and made it less than excellent. We came in with open minds. We tried to like it. It didn’t “wow” us though. Let's break it down...

Ambiance: In the former dining room, the tablecloths on the tables made the very elegant and classy Sapphire Dining Room into a spectacular venue. No tablecloths and there is something missing. It's like we wearing a tuxedo without a tie. Not fully dressed. It feels like I traded a fancy restaurant for dinner at the Olive Garden. Food might be good, but something is lacking in the presentation. In short, the lack of tablecloths contributes to the feeling that the dining room is not "special". It's not going to be memorable. It's just going to be good, not great.

I would go so far as to submit that there is a subconscious awareness of the tablecloths and the connotation of the experience being something "special". Something not ordinary. Something great. No tablecloths and it's just another table. Let's use this comparison: Morton's Steakhouse vs. Olive Garden. Both meals are good. Only one is great.

Waitstaff Confusion: It seems like the waitstaff is confused in their roles. For instance, there is a water carafe on the table. Nice. But, once empty, who comes to fill it? Our experience was spotty. Sometimes the 2nd waiter brought a full one, sometimes he filled glasses from his own and left the empty bottle alone.

With the prior dining room experiences, there was always an attentive waiter with a water pitcher happy to refill your glass. I miss that. It made me feel special. Like I was dining somewhere really great. My family agrees. And the old way gave us more opportunity to bond with our waitstaff. It made us want to tip them more at the end of the cruise. We got to know them. We liked them. We tipped them generously.

The American Table plan takes away much of that interaction. It is less personal. Less special. Are tips down for the waitstaff? I would not be surprised.

Place Setting: with the former dining room, there was a charger plate and a bread plate along with water and wine glasses and silverware. The napkin was on the charger. Your napkin was placed for you by the hostess. All of this meant "classy". You were being treated special. You were about to experience something special.

The new setting has a square bread plate, silverware and the water/wine glasses. A folded napkin is on the table. The bread plate being square is awkward in that everything else is round. It is larger than the old bread plate and take up more space. The tables are cozy and table space is limited. So, the bread plates are not an upgrade. Small point, but an important one as we shall see below.

With the place settings in the the former dining room plan, the wait staff removed used knives and forks between courses. It’s like they knew what you needed, anticipated your needs and were taking great care of you.

In the new set up, it's not clear what to do with the used knives and forks. In our experience, the staff didn’t always take your knife and fork. If you had them on the bread plate, they left them. If they were on the plate they were clearing, they took them. Then you didn’t have utensils. Sometimes they would bring new ones, sometimes not. If they did not notice, you were without. So, the guest had to ask for one. Awkward.

Cleanliness: with respect to germs, how can a guest be certain that the table is really clean? Maybe someone missed a spot when wiping it down. If I place my utensils on the table, I am subject to whatever germs may be there. If I place them on my bread plate, I'm safer...if the bread plate is truly clean.

I'm not a germaphobe, but people do think about these things. The table being covered in a white cloth gives one the impression that everything is spotlessly clean. As it should be.

The condition of the table at the end of our meal was sad. With the water condensing on the ice cold glasses and dripping on the table there was always a wet table. Combine that with some breadcrumbs, spills, drips, whatnot and you have a "hot mess" of a table. Something less than classy. Something you might expect elsewhere, but not in the MDR.

Dessert time used to be relaxing. I might even order coffee and linger a bit. But, with the table in such sad shape, it’s not enticing. Time to get up and go. It leaves a poor impression at a point where Carnival should want the impression to be stellar.

Bread Basket: The Bread Basket seems to be less than ideal. It has a variety of 3, possibly 4 breads or rolls. But, if the kids will only eat "plain" rolls, they are gone quickly, leaving the more exotic ones begging. No more is there a kind waiter to bring a nice selection of breads and rolls and place them on your bread plate. That always made me feel special. Now they just drop the basket and keep on moving. Again, interaction is lost with the staff, the guest has less choices, and the experience is lessened.

Also, the bread basket stays on the table. As said above, the table is small and space is at a premium. Our four person table often seemed too crowded with the square bread plate, the square bread basket and the other plates (all round btw). Odd combination really. And not classy. Again, are we aiming for Olive Garden or Morton's?

The Menu: I didn't mind that there were less choices. I still found the menu had enough choices for me. My wife mentioned that the Sides changed daily. Only slightly though. For instance, one day I asked for a baked potato. The waiter seemed stunned. It was on the menu a side the night before, so I assumed it was again. But, it was not. He got me one anyhow. Nice.

The 555 selections are a nice touch, but ultimately a flawed concept. We did not order them. We've been to 555 on every cruise since it was offered. We did not this time. But, we did not order from the MDR either.

It's a tough sell. A $20 charge in the MDR versus $35 for a full dinner in the 555 with the wonderful ambiance and personal attention to detail from the wait staff. It's a well intentioned idea, but not an upgrade in my mind.

Sauces: There were sauces on the menu under the main entree section. It seemed odd to me. Why would I want to second guess the chef? Do I need sauce? Is there something bland about my dinner? Are sauces the new "in thing"? Who knows? I just know that I looked at them and wondered why they were listed. And if you list sauces at all, why stop there? List lots of things a guest might want. Pickles? Olives? Sriracha? Spicy brown mustard? I just found the whole thing confusing. Why confuse me, I'm on vacation!!!

Conclusion: I believe that the former set up was better for the above reasons. Carnival tried, but missed. I think they tried to fix something that wasn’t really broken. It’s not too late though. Changes could be made. The tablecloths could come back. A better place setting could be implemented. Get rid of the bread basket. Give the waitstaff a chance to show their stuff and interact with the guests. It makes for a memorable experience not just an ordinary one.

And please don't get me wrong, our family loves Carnival. WE LOVE CCL! It's just that the new dining experience left a void for us. Our special time at dinner was just ordinary.

In our prior cruises, we would run around all day, doing things together or separate, but we’d always come together at dinner for something special. Something great. Something purely Carnival. The American Table experience does not meet our expectations. It's too ordinary.

Lastly, the current set up does the wonderful chefs an injustice to have their creations served in such a plain and ordinary atmosphere. And I am sure the waitstaff had more fun and did better with tips in the "old" setting.

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That's just my opinion. And truth be told, after the Vista, I am actually looking at RCCL and NCL as options. I think it's because of the dining downer of the MDR on Breeze.

I agree, Olive Garden IS great! And I think you brought up some good points; I think the tables sans tablecloths look pretty cool but I can appreciate the non-practicality of it from the diner's perspective. Probably makes it a little easier on the MDR staff between seatings, though.

I think it was a well written and very thought out letter. You weren't rude or demeaning, just straightforward.

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Thanks for your comments. I've not experienced American Table, but appreciate your detailed review of it.

Clearly, there's a cost savings not having to change and wash all those tableclothes and the bread basket saves some on labor. I suspect that was a big motivator for the change. I'm wondering if beyond that, they are trying to be more casual just because that's the way things are these days? Just like relaxed dress codes on formal night?

I would have to agree with you , we (me, hubby, 2 dd's and their so's) didn't care for the american table when we were on the Breeze either.

I'm going to Olive Garden for lunch today. Love the breadsticks.

Maybe they won't be like me and will finish reading the letter. I couldn't finish. Sorry.

Seems to me what you're looking for in a dining experience isn't going to be what Carnival provides. At least in my past experiences with Carnival. Carnival is fairly basic for a cruise line.

Maybe they won't be like me and will finish reading the letter. I couldn't finish. Sorry.

 

Seems to me what you're looking for in a dining experience isn't going to be what Carnival provides. At least in my past experiences with Carnival. Carnival is fairly basic for a cruise line.

Thanks for you input. I have been in NCL and Disney in the past. My prior experiences on the Dream, Sunshine and Liberty were all good in the MDR. Really good and with great service.

Very well written, send it to John Heald face book and see if others have the same feelings

Thanks for you input. I have been in NCL and Disney in the past. My prior experiences on the Dream, Sunshine and Liberty were all good in the MDR. Really good and with great service.

I too had good experiences on the Dream and Sunshine. But I have a feeling what I consider good and what you do are different.

About the only way I have some inkling of what a charger plate is is the few times I read about them here. Otherwise I'd think it was something where I could charge my cell phone :D

Last time on the Dream we went with a couple that had been on a Disney cruise. They were not impressed with Carnival. At all.

Anyway, I think over time quite a few people graduate from Carnival. Carnival backfills those graduates with a new generation. Perhaps if you have a graduation party on another other line you'll find exactly what you're looking for.

I think your letter is very nice and thorough. I do respectfully disagree with you though and the debate over the American Table certainly has me intrigued.

We have cruised 13 times and I was sick to death of the old menu. We had the same dinner over and over.

The lack of tablecloth does not bother me. I think the wood tables are beautiful and I was actually surprised when I had the American Table for the first time because I had read so many reviews of how awful the dining room looked and I thought it was beautiful.

I love the pitchers of water because sometimes we used to wait and wait for someone to come fill up our glasses and sometimes even asked for 2 water glasses it was so bad. Now we can just fill up our own and both times we had the American Table we were kept with fresh and full water pitchers.

We have not experienced any wait staff confusion and thought they worked more as a team and that we were actually able to interact with all of them more instead of just the main waiter.

We also had our silverware replaced with each course so that was not an issue for us.

The first time we experienced the new menu we were with a party of 9. (3 families) and everyone thought dinner was amazing. I don't want to cruise on a ship now without the American Table. We have done it twice and I have yet to have the same thing twice.

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The point what missing is. THERE LESS PEOPLE IN DINING ROOM. TO served you. So they make you do self service. No table cloths to clean. No one to fill water glasses. No one to serve bread. Ect.ect.ect. Last cruise old menu. The staff was like just like serving two things at the same time. They could not keep up. Carnival answer to your letter is going to be. Suck it up. That the new way

Your thoughts are your thoughts, and your letter is fine.

That said, I don't understand the fascination with tablecloths. It seems to be a big deal to a lot of people, but I can't say I've ever cared whether there was a tablecloth or not. On top of that, pricey and trendy restaurants are often going without them. I suspect that as much as anything, Carnival is trying to capitalize on this trendy practice.

Very well thought out. When I first heard of the American Table concept, I didn't think much of it. But much of what you said makes very good sence....

To me, sometimes on a family vacation, and I am only referring to my family and no one else, we want to have that special feeling you had mentioned about dining in the MDR because getting four people ready to go out, cleaned up and dressed properly for a special night takes some time, effort and coordination in a cruise ship cabin (suites are not to norm for us). And if it doesn't feel special, why bother? I am happy with the buffet:), will save that special night out for the steakhouse and be casual the rest of the time.

Again, nicely put together letter!

Awfully wordy but you sort of had me until stating the tables were somehow cleaner with tablecloths than without. :confused:

Though I didn't read to the end it seems you missed the most important part of a business letter: What do you want the company to do with your frustrations? If you don't offer a solution in a clear and precise manner, then your letter is pointless and will end up in the circular file.

The elegance of cruising is disappearing. First, people don't want to dress up. Now, the American Table.

Well said. Just got off the Glory and it was also our first American Table experience. While we really enjoyed the new menus (I know some don't), we hated the actual experience. We made all the same comments about the water carafe, silverware changes between courses, and lack of space on the table.

After working in the restaurant business for years, I don't understand what happened to beverage napkins. No one uses them anymore. Everywhere I worked they were required. Now you have to ask for them and the server has to go off and find some. I cannot stand a messy table.

The letter is a draft. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. That would be very, very rare LOL.

I did cut out the introduction and part of the conclusion where I ask for Action by Carnival.

I'm glad to see other points of view. Olive Garden is fine. Our kids love it.

I don't agree that people graduate from Carnival and move on to other lines. That seems a bit condescending. The MDR experience was always good before the American Table. It's not bad now....just different and IMHO not better.

Part of the experience for me on any of the cruise lines I have sailed has always been the fine dining in the MDR. Fine dining means different things to everyone. Table cloths and uniformed wait staff are part of that definition to me. I don't care what people wear so much. Cruise casual is fine. It's more tthe beauty of room and environment, the table setting and the wait staff that create the aura of fine dining (and the food of course) for me.

This letter is only about the American Table and why I didn't like it. I don't want to go off topic and start comparing cruise lines. Everyone has their favorite and reasons for liking one over another. But, 7 cruises on CCL with kids has appealed to us as a family in the past. Part of that was the formal dining "experience". The AT is not as good to our family.

We had much the same experience on Breeze in May with the new concept. There is really not enough room on the tables with the square bread plates, wine bottle and water carafe. We had trouble getting refills of water as well and this wasn't helped with the fact that the entire week many of the side items were so salty that they were inedible.

We also just weren't thrilled with the revamping of some of our favorite main dishes and the new sides that come with them. It was also confusing because some main dishes listed some kind of side and some did not so we would order a side dish and then the main did, in fact, have a side so we ended up wasting food because it was too much.

The only thing we really liked were some of the new desserts.

Fine dining and MDR don't normally belong in the same sentence. A dining experience yes, whether it's good or bad is what you make of it

and remember - Carnival is one of the most, if not THE most, cost-effective lines out there... something like $50/day per person for an inside cabin during non-peak times is the norm pretty much. So to expect Morton's-level dining quality might be a bit optimistic, when you consider everything else that comes with the cruise also for those prices.

$50 per day? How do you get that? We are at about $100 to $125 on average. That's a guesstimate. Doesn't include tips. Does include taxes and port fees. We only do 7 or 8 nights.

But I am not sure the implication is accurate anyhow. All the ships and lines look for ways to manage costs. Carnival is profitable. They used table cloths and nice place settings not too long ago. Their stock price has almost doubled in the last year. I think the American Table is more about being innovative than being less costly. There may be an element of that, but i doubt it is their primary consideration.

By the way, I did behind the scenes on the Breeze and the kitchen was amazing. The best and cleanest and largest I have ever seen. Met the head chef too.

I don't think it's fair to say Carnival spends less on food or anything else unless you have evidence to back it up. It's merely conjecture and hearsay. Same thing can be said about any cruise line. I would love to see a report or quote from an employee about that. Doubt you could ever find one.

Atmosphere, that is what was changed.

Today's Carnival target cruiser does not like to dress formal. Period.

The new dining concept matches a majority of those passengers.

"Fine Dining" has been losing popularity in droves for the past 10-15 years.

Passengers interested in the more traditional cruise "fine" dining will move to other lines if they don't like AT.

This is absolutely a cost saving measure & if you don't believe it you are quite naïve.

Just the tablecloths alone saves them more money than I can imagine.

No purchase, no cleaning, no labor.....casual like young people are now.

Carnival has nearly a skeleton crew now, all rushed & actually sweaty (yuck).

They are THE budget cruise line and will continue to be attractive to the masses who were previously unable to cruise due to cost.

The younger people are very casual now & I don't see that changing.

We will try AT for the 1st time soon & looking forward to a new menu.

The rest, we shall see!

Like everything else with Carnival (and other lines) things are done differently on different ships. We have been lucky enough to sail both the Inspiration (5x) and Imagination since the beginning of the American Table and there have been many changes in the (almost) two years it's been in place.

We just got off the Inspiration 3 day, dining in ATD with two different teams of waiters. The Inspiration now has the wood tables and the whole forward MDR is ATD. We found the two tops to be more crowded, not because of a bread plate, but because of the wine bottle and water carafe. Could have done without the wine bottle/table number. We appreciated the water as DH and I drank two of these a meal. These were replaced as soon as they were barely empty. We had no water pooling on the table as we were using water goblets and the carafe was in a holder. Tablecloths were used for CE night. The waitstaff were still in teams of three and we received new silverware to replace the dirty.

Many of the fancier restaurants in the Los Angeles area are going away from tablecloths- for both fashion and going 'green'. Like the new menu layout. The previous layout was even more confusing. Now it's more like the fancier restaurants at home where everything is a la carte.

Had the root vegetable pie. For the sixth time it was a different recipe, they're still tweaking it. Also had the new CE night menu Scallops were excellent. Get the ravioli in the vodka sauce if you care for that type of sauce.

FWIW when we sail with our nut allergic DD we always end up with plain bread. Next time might want to order it the night before, its a very easy thing to do.