Canyon Ranch billing and tipping practices

A number of current threads are discussing experiences at the Canyon Ranch spa. It is quite upsetting to me to read that four years later, the practice of published specials in Passages not being honored voluntarily, one needs to protest to get the "special" price. I had the same experience a few years ago - I was on a very port intensive cruise and there were a number of specials during port hours. I booked a pedicure at the discounted price and in order to receive that price, I had to return to my cabin to get my copy of Passages because the staff insisted there was no such special. I was then informed that the "special price" did not include the service charge. When I brought this up to management, I was told it was an honest mistake which I believed, but since that time I have either experienced or heard of similar situations.

This practice in unacceptable and management needs to address and correct the problems ASAP - this is not what one expects on a "6 star" cruise line.

Regarding tipping, on another thread a poster was told that the included service charge was part of the salary. As per IRS regulations, service charges distributed to employees are treated as regular wages and not as tip income. The question should be is this - are the service charges that are charged to the passengers returned to the employee and considered income above and beyond base wages of the employee or are the service charges used just to cover base wages, which unfortunately, is quite common in the service/hospitality industry. Inquiry minds would like to know.

gnomie :)

Since the Regent ships are registered in the US, IRS guidelines are irrelevant.

That said, Canyon Ranch spa onboard has a long history of rather deceptive practices. I have been asked to tip many times. When I point out that the tip is included, the person asking usually doesn't push further, but I am sure passengers who are not "in the know" often go ahead and tip extra. My husband certainly has.

The other thing I dislike is the push to sell you products. I now start out with "I am not buying any products" right off the bat. But shouldn't have to do that.

I've heard similar stories from my wife. Always a push to sell product. Always a push to upgrade services. And I'm pretty sure she tips, too (although she's generally a generous tipper).

But I agree wholeheartedly - you shouldn't have to argue with the spa personnel on ANYTHING, let alone double tips. It's shady, uncomfortable, and has no place on a luxury cruise ship. But unfortunately, a lot of first-time cruisers may not know and fall victim to this stuff, and that's just not right. Regent needs to police this more closely.

Since the Regent ships are registered in the US, IRS guidelines are irrelevant.

 

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If the employee is a US citizen, then they must abide by the IRS guidelines - this is why you see so few US workers on cruise ships. Even though the ships are not registered in the US, the corporate headquarters are based in Miami, which is why they must abide by the IRS guidelines with regard to payroll regulations. This is why the majority of the entertainers are from the UK and not the US.

gnomie :)

I've heard similar stories from my wife. Always a push to sell product. Always a push to upgrade services. And I'm pretty sure she tips, too (although she's generally a generous tipper).

 

 

 

But I agree wholeheartedly - you shouldn't have to argue with the spa personnel on ANYTHING, let alone double tips. It's shady, uncomfortable, and has no place on a luxury cruise ship. But unfortunately, a lot of first-time cruisers may not know and fall victim to this stuff, and that's just not right. Regent needs to police this more closely.

Interesting. We have used the canyon ranch spas on celebrity and Oceania without incident. No one ever tried to extract an additional tip or sell us products.

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I’ve had only had good experiences. On my last Explorer Cruise, I booked a massage the day before and the next day in Passages there was a special for same day booking. I was bummed, but oh well, when I got there I was charged the special price without asking. No hassles re: tipping at all. But I recall the receipt saying tip was included, but I’m always a bit sleepy after a massage.

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Since the Regent ships are registered in the US, IRS guidelines are irrelevant.

 

That said, Canyon Ranch spa onboard has a long history of rather deceptive practices. I have been asked to tip many times. When I point out that the tip is included, the person asking usually doesn't push further, but I am sure passengers who are not "in the know" often go ahead and tip extra. My husband certainly has.

 

The other thing I dislike is the push to sell you products. I now start out with "I am not buying any products" right off the bat. But shouldn't have to do that.

Agree with you 100%. It would be helpful if posters understood that IRS guidelines are irrelevant (no matter what country the person performing the services is from!!!!) We have yet to have someone in Canyon Ranch spa perform a service that was from the U.S. (even if they were, IRS regulations definitely do not apply). There seems to be two things going on:

1. Deceptive advertising. As I discussed on my live thread, it is helpful if you bring a copy of Passages with you when you are making an appointment. Some employees may be truly unaware of specials in Passages that were delivered to passenger suites only hours before the spa specials go into effect. If they do not abide by the specials, speak with the General Manager.

2. While tips should definitely not be solicited (and Regent should correct this), passengers need to know what is or is not included on Regent. Ignorance is really not a valid excuse. And, if some passengers want to add an additional tip, that is up to them. If you feel pressured to tip, it is important that you report this.

IMO, there is a simple solution....... Regent needs to let them know that there are deceptive practices and needs to be corrected. Unfortunately, while this has been going on for a long time, it is rarely discussed on the Regent board. Regent cannot "police" something that they do not know is occurring.

I will address this issue on my final Questionnaire. As far as I am concerned, Regent could dump Canyon Ranch and go with a more honest provider of spa services.

P.S. I find your signature "Don't argue with idiots - they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience" interesting, it is also puzzling. While there clearly are no idiots on the Regent board, there are definitely many people that have more experience than we do. Hopefully this does not make you and I idiots!?:evilsmile:

Agree with you 100%. It would be helpful if posters understood that IRS guidelines are irrelevant (no matter what country the person performing the services is from!!!!) We have yet to have someone in Canyon Ranch spa perform a service that was from the U.S. (even if they were, IRS regulations definitely do not apply). There seems to be two things going on:

 

1. Deceptive advertising. As I discussed on my live thread, it is helpful if you bring a copy of Passages with you when you are making an appointment. Some employees may be truly unaware of specials in Passages that were delivered to passenger suites only hours before the spa specials go into effect. If they do not abide by the specials, speak with the General Manager.

 

2. While tips should definitely not be solicited (and Regent should correct this), passengers need to know what is or is not included on Regent. Ignorance is really not a valid excuse. And, if some passengers want to add an additional tip, that is up to them. If you feel pressured to tip, it is important that you report this.

 

IMO, there is a simple solution....... Regent needs to let them know that there are deceptive practices and needs to be corrected. Unfortunately, while this has been going on for a long time, it is rarely discussed on the Regent board. Regent cannot "police" something that they do not know is occurring.

 

I will address this issue on my final Questionnaire. As far as I am concerned, Regent could dump Canyon Ranch and go with a more honest provider of spa services.

 

P.S. I find your signature "Don't argue with idiots - they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience" interesting, it is also puzzling. While there clearly are no idiots on the Regent board, there are definitely many people that have more experience than we do. Hopefully this does not make you and I idiots!?:evilsmile:

The above statement about the IRS is factually inaccurate. US citizens are required to file a US Federal Income Tax Return and pay US Federal Income Tax on income regardless of where in the world it was earned..

The above statement about the IRS is factually inaccurate. US citizens are required to file a US Federal Income Tax Return and pay US Federal Income Tax on income regardless of where in the world it was earned..

Is it any wonder that cruise lines do not hire U.S. citizens? My comments were general comments related to cruise ships not registered in the United States. The point of this thread is Canyon Ranch Spa -- if Rachael and I are incorrect, I'll retract the statement (after discussing the issue wth the highest ranking U.S. based employee on the Mariner at the present time. It should be an easy question and answer. :rolleyes:

P.S. It is important to note that there are no U.S. citizens currently working in Canyon Ranch Spa on the Mariner (it may be different on the Explorer).

Is it any wonder that cruise lines do not hire U.S. citizens? My comments were general comments related to cruise ships not registered in the United States. The point of this thread is Canyon Ranch Spa -- if Rachael and I are incorrect, I'll retract the statement (after discussing the issue wth the highest ranking U.S. based employee on the Mariner at the present time. It should be an easy question and answer. :rolleyes:

 

P.S. It is important to note that there are no U.S. citizens currently working in Canyon Ranch Spa on the Mariner (it may be different on the Explorer).

You don't have to believe me. The tax code is clear. The only exemption is if you are living as an expatriate and must pay social taxes in the foreign country where you earned the income, most often a US citizen will get a foreign tax credit for the social taxes required to be paid to that foreign entity. But sure, check "with the highest ranking US based employee on the Mariner."

U.S. citizens are subject to US tax law no matter where they earn their money. But, it is an important to understand that non- US businesses do not have to follow US regulations relating to how they compensate their employees. And, the spa employees are not even employees of Regent - they are employees of a subcontractor.

Best,

John

Agree with you 100%. It would be helpful if posters understood that IRS guidelines are irrelevant (no matter what country the person performing the services is from!!!!) We have yet to have someone in Canyon Ranch spa perform a service that was from the U.S. (even if they were, IRS regulations definitely do not apply). There seems to be two things going on:

 

1. Deceptive advertising. As I discussed on my live thread, it is helpful if you bring a copy of Passages with you when you are making an appointment. Some employees may be truly unaware of specials in Passages that were delivered to passenger suites only hours before the spa specials go into effect. If they do not abide by the specials, speak with the General Manager.

 

2. While tips should definitely not be solicited (and Regent should correct this), passengers need to know what is or is not included on Regent. Ignorance is really not a valid excuse. And, if some passengers want to add an additional tip, that is up to them. If you feel pressured to tip, it is important that you report this.

 

IMO, there is a simple solution....... Regent needs to let them know that there are deceptive practices and needs to be corrected. Unfortunately, while this has been going on for a long time, it is rarely discussed on the Regent board. Regent cannot "police" something that they do not know is occurring.

 

I will address this issue on my final Questionnaire. As far as I am concerned, Regent could dump Canyon Ranch and go with a more honest provider of spa services.

 

P.S. I find your signature "Don't argue with idiots - they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience" interesting, it is also puzzling. While there clearly are no idiots on the Regent board, there are definitely many people that have more experience than we do. Hopefully this does not make you and I idiots!?:evilsmile:

As a tax accountant who actually has clients who are cruise ship employees and also lectures regarding foreign earned income, I believe I have sufficient expertise in the subject

gnomie

I have never encountered a canyon ranch spa employee on a Regent ship who was a US citizen or US resident. And I have been on every Regent ship. Thus my statement that IRS regulations do not apply. If there were someone from the US working in the spa onboard, it would be a different situation. But there are non as far as I know.

U.S. citizens are subject to US tax law no matter where they earn their money. But, it is an important to understand that non- US businesses do not have to follow US regulations relating to how they compensate their employees. And, the spa employees are not even employees of Regent - they are employees of a subcontractor.

 

Best,

John

Thanks John. I really wasn't trying get into a tax law debate except as it pertains to Canyon Ranch Spa. As you likely know, there is legislation in WA that could tax cruise ships rather heavily but that is a discussion for another thread.

Your' right about not being employed of Regent but want to add that very few positions on Regent are actual Regent "employees".

Agree with Rachel that we have never seen a U.S. Citizen working in Canyon Ranch Spa. Currently onboard Mariner are three U.S. Citizens that I am aware of -- our Cruise Director, Social Hostess and Cruise Consultant.

Back to Canyon Ranch Spa. The woman that did my nails last week (Tracy) in the Spa was friendly and did not try to sell me anything -- really a lovely lady. However, when I was going to make the appointment, the person at the desk was not aware of the services provided (that are clearly written on their brochure). That in itself is not a big deal but the fact that they do not offer what is advertised is, In my opinion, a big deal.

I have often wondered what the true financial arrangements are regarding the cruise lines and the spas. We all know that none of us would pay $75 and up for a basic pedicure on land but so many of us find ourselves at the spa simply to "use up" OBCs.There are actual cash credits and then there are ship issued credits. Does each company (regent/ canyon ranch) put the same value to the credits? We have also gotten to the point where we use up OBCs at the shops.

I really don't understand why this topic went so off course regarding gratuities at Canyon Spa. It's a subject that interested me because of a past experience. What do tax laws and US citizens, employed at the spa, have to do with this issue?

The subject of feeling intimidated to leave more money after a spa treatment, is something that Regent should explore. It really does happen.

Sheila

I really don't understand why this topic went so off course regarding gratuities at Canyon Spa. It's a subject that interested me because of a past experience. What do tax laws and US citizens, employed at the spa, have to do with this issue?

The subject of feeling intimidated to leave more money after a spa treatment, is something that Regent should explore. It really does happen.

Sheila

I was chuckling about that very thing earlier - amazing how threads can so easily veer off course. I laughed about the discussions about tax codes, employee nationality, home ports, which executives are on board, etc...when all it really boils down to is that Regent needs to be aware that there's a problem on board (or at least the perception of a problem, which is just as bad) and they need to fix it. As I posted earlier, my wife has seen the same practices so I'm sure there's an issue. They shouldn't let the subcontractor tarnish their reputation with shady business practices. Period.

Funny how reading internet forums is like panning for gold...you need to sift out a lot of worthless dirt before you find that nugget you were looking for. :cool:

The question should be is this - are the service charges that are charged to the passengers returned to the employee and considered income above and beyond base wages of the employee or are the service charges used just to cover base wages, which unfortunately, is quite common in the service/hospitality industry. Inquiry minds would like to know.

So, back to my original thought and question - is the reason that the staff at the Canyon Ranch spa seek out tips is because although there is a service charge on the bill, the person who actually performed the service only receives tips that are added beyond the stated service charge? On another thread, a poster mentioned that he was told the service charge is used to pay base wages and is not a tip that is received by the individual performing the service.

gnomie :)

I was chuckling about that very thing earlier - amazing how threads can so easily veer off course. I laughed about the discussions about tax codes, employee nationality, home ports, which executives are on board, etc...when all it really boils down to is that Regent needs to be aware that there's a problem on board (or at least the perception of a problem, which is just as bad) and they need to fix it. As I posted earlier, my wife has seen the same practices so I'm sure there's an issue. They shouldn't let the subcontractor tarnish their reputation with shady business practices. Period.

 

It is funny how reading internet forums is like panning for gold...you need to sift out a lot of worthless dirt before you find that nugget you were looking for. :cool:

Yes - it is funny and I tend to agree with you and Sheila. The discussion has me wondering why we should care about how Canyon Ranch handles tips (or their salaries or salaries/tips for any of the positions on Regent). Obviously, an extremely high percentage (guessing 98%) of people working on Regent are not from the U.S. and therefore not subject to these taxes being discussed.

From what I've read on the two threads discussing Canyon Ranch, the issue is false advertising, lack of knowledge by some employees in Canyon Ranch Spa, attempts to make passengers purchase more and tip even though an 18% tip is included. So, for me, the bottom line is that Regent states that there is an included 18% tip included for passengers. Therefore, tips should not be solicited. Also, bait and switch advertising should not be permitted.

As noted by a few posters, this is not done by all Canyon Ranch Spa employees and many of their services are excellent. However, I am not going to pay an extra tip (on top of the 18%) for overpriced services. The tip alone on the nail service done onboard is more money than having the service done my nail salon at home.

P.S. Bill, the shady practices by Canyon Ranch Spa "ain't nothin" compared to the company that sold artwork on Regent for years. That was quite a story!

Interesting. We have used the canyon ranch spas on celebrity and Oceania without incident. No one ever tried to extract an additional tip or sell us products.

 

 

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That has been my experience on Celebrity and Oceania as well, a s I had learned many many years ago on my intake for. Tomwrkte in big bold letters

NO SALES PITCH PLEASE,! I have had a couple of people comment in a polite fashion, some seemed amused by it, but they all abided by it. I never had the experience on those lines where they claimed not to know about an advertised in port special, i will be curious if this is still happening by out cruise next fall.

... the bottom line is that Regent states that there is an included 18% tip included for passengers. Therefore, tips should not be solicited. Also, bait and switch advertising should not be permitted.

 

As noted by a few posters, this is not done by all Canyon Ranch Spa employees and many of their services are excellent. However, I am not going to pay an extra tip (on top of the 18%) for overpriced services.

Totally agree. It seems that I end up having a short, polite discussion with the Canyon Ranch manager to reverse the "excess" tipping, overcharge for advertised specials, and/or hard-sell product charges about every other time SWMBO goes to Canyon Ranch. She's too nice to say no. I'm not.

I retract my previous post. We are having the most disgusting experience with one operator. Going to manager today.

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I did better than getting tips reversed. I had charges on 2 procedures reversed. Our issue was not tipping.

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I did better than getting tips reversed. I had charges on 2 procedures reversed. Our issue was not tipping.

 

 

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Bravo!!!!!

I retract my previous post. We are having the most disgusting experience with one operator. Going to manager today.

 

 

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I'd also recommend letting someone at Regent know about your experiences. The manager at Canyon Ranch is, I'd assume, an employee of CR and would have no reason to inform Regent about any problems. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Apparently there's an ongoing problem with some of the people in the spa, otherwise this thread would have died days ago. Even if Regent is aware there's a problem, they may not know the extent of it if people don't let them know. My guess is that most people don't know that Canyon Ranch is a contractor, not Regent staff, so they probably think talking to the manager will correct the problem. It may address their immediate concern but it does nothing to affect a long-term fix...