Impact of B2B cruises with Centrelink

We are planning several B2B cruises each returning to Sydney except for the last which will be a transpacific of 23 days. Collectively they will well exceed 6 weeks, the period of absence that impacts the amount of pension received. I was wondering if anyone knows how B2B cruises are counted for Centrelink pension purposes? Does the 6 weeks start again at the end of each cruise in Sydney or will they look at the total period as one absence? Your experience would be appreciated.

You're probably better off discussing your plans with Centrelink and getting their advice directly from them.

You're probably better off discussing your plans with Centrelink and getting their advice directly from them.

Thanks tillydog. I’ve already tried that with conflicting results. The first person I spoke to there gave me one answer but she didn’t seem sure of herself. The next day I rang again and got another person who didn’t sound confident but gave the opposite response.

We are planning several B2B cruises each returning to Sydney except for the last which will be a transpacific of 23 days. Collectively they will well exceed 6 weeks, the period of absence that impacts the amount of pension received. I was wondering if anyone knows how B2B cruises are counted for Centrelink pension purposes? Does the 6 weeks start again at the end of each cruise in Sydney or will they look at the total period as one absence? Your experience would be appreciated.

I for one, never take the small amount of pension reduction one has to incur if staying overseas beyond 6 weeks. Generally in the scheme of things it could amount to $100 if away for say 8/9 weeks or so - not a deal breaker by any means.

We are planning several B2B cruises each returning to Sydney except for the last which will be a transpacific of 23 days. Collectively they will well exceed 6 weeks, the period of absence that impacts the amount of pension received. I was wondering if anyone knows how B2B cruises are counted for Centrelink pension purposes? Does the 6 weeks start again at the end of each cruise in Sydney or will they look at the total period as one absence? Your experience would be appreciated.

My understanding is, if you are out of the country for in excess of six weeks, it will affect your Centrelink entitlements. With B2B cruises, you will be out of the country for in excess of six weeks. I assume you will not be staying in Australia overnight between B2B cruises. I suggest you write to Centrelink for a ruling, if you think this rule will not affect you.

I for one, never take the small amount of pension reduction one has to incur if staying overseas beyond 6 weeks. Generally in the scheme of things it could amount to $100 if away for say 8/9 weeks or so - not a deal breaker by any means.

I lost my Centrelink card after being out of the country for a little over 6 weeks, which was how I learnt of this ruling. I had to reapply for the card.

I remember a few years ago when you had to notify Centrelink by phone when you left Aus and returned.

Was told by a employee that it was wise to notify when you returned just in case the customs forms were not correctly matched, that according to their records you could be still overseas.

Of course things have changed now, thank goodness.

So I was wondering if you fill in the custom’s form after each leg of a B2B, if returning to Aus each leg?

Go to the Centrelink website and see if they have a link to the relevant legislation or regulation.

I would have thought the issue would turn upon whether you are regarded as being in Australia on the days your ship returns to Sydney. Also are all your cruises in international waters, or are some exclusively in Australian waters? If the latter, then you are not technically out of Australia.

A cruise from Sydney to Perth for example would not be an absence from Australia if it only visited Australian ports.

There are probably special rules about when your absence from Australia begins if you take a cruise that goes an Australian port or two before going overseas.

Age Pension recipients travelling overseas will be paid their full basic means-tested rate of pension for up to 6 weeks. Once the pensioner has been overseas for a period of 6 weeks, their payment rate will change depending on the number of years they lived in Australia during their working life. It may also affect pensioners granted unlimited portability and in receipt of Disability Support Pension, Wife Pension or Widow B Pension.

Your payment rate may change depending on:

• how long you’re away
  
• if your income and assets change
  
• if your pension is through a social security agreement with another country
  

When you leave Australia for more than 6 weeks your:

• Pension Supplement will drop to the basic rate, and
  
• Energy Supplement will stop
  

There are slightly differing rules if travelling to NZ for pensioners.

Best to check with the Department of Human Services.

If you are on a ‘domestic’ Australian cruise, you don’t have to notify Centrelink for aged pension, probably for some other pensions as well.

From the website it says:

When to tell us your travel plans

You need to tell us you’re leaving Australia if you:

• are going to live in another country
  
• will be away for more than 6 weeks
  
• get payments under a social security agreement with another country
  
• came back to live in Australia within the last 2 years and started getting Age Pension since then
  

Otherwise you don’t need to tell us about your travel. The immigration department will tell us when you leave and return.

By my logic, it would have to be written into the legislation - or Act or whatever it is that governs Centrelink payments - that when you return you need to stay at least one night.

If it doesn't specify a minimum return time, then you ARE returning to Australia and it shouldn't affect your pension. They can't make up a new rule on the fly.

So I guess the key is to find out what, if anything, the Act says about minimum return times, I would ask them that specifically, preferably in writing.

We are self-funded-retirees. Until probably mid 2016, the 6-week-rule applied to us and we had to reapply for our Seniors card if our overseas trip exceeded the 6 weeks. On a couple of occasions we had back-to-back cruises out of Australia (one was 8 weeks total) and our cards were cancelled, even though we returned to Australia a couple of times during the 8 weeks. According to the Immigration Dept, our passports had been processed as 'leaving the country' and were not re-processed until we returned home. When you arrive in Sydney or Brisbane on your B2B, you do not go through Immigration, so I am pretty sure that you will be regarded as being out of the country for the whole period (for pension purposes).

After the rules changed for self-funded retirees, the 6-week rule doesn't apply, but if we are out of the country for more than 19 weeks, we have to apply all over again and the new rules regarding qualification apply. We would not qualify under these rules, so we don't want to go on any trips longer than 19 weeks. Unlikely anyway.:D

I agree that if your cruise requires your passport to board, you are leaving the country no matter where it goes or if it has Australian ports. Your return through immigration would make it the end of the trip, meaning all of the B2B cruises would be counted unless the second cruise was a domestic cruise (you would go through immigration after the first cruise).

The OP should contact DHS to get a ruling one way or the other.

On a side note, we need to ask ourselves why we are paying someone the Age Pension (a welfare payment) if they can afford to cruise for more than 6 weeks. One thing is for sure, they may certainly, they may qualify for more Pension after 6 weeks of cruising.

We are self-funded-retirees. Until probably mid 2016, the 6-week-rule applied to us and we had to reapply for our Seniors card if our overseas trip exceeded the 6 weeks. On a couple of occasions we had back-to-back cruises out of Australia (one was 8 weeks total) and our cards were cancelled, even though we returned to Australia a couple of times during the 8 weeks. According to the Immigration Dept, our passports had been processed as 'leaving the country' and were not re-processed until we returned home. When you arrive in Sydney or Brisbane on your B2B, you do not go through Immigration, so I am pretty sure that you will be regarded as being out of the country for the whole period (for pension purposes).

 

After the rules changed for self-funded retirees, the 6-week rule doesn't apply, but if we are out of the country for more than 19 weeks, we have to apply all over again and the new rules regarding qualification apply. We would not qualify under these rules, so we don't want to go on any trips longer than 19 weeks. Unlikely anyway.:D

....

On a side note, we need to ask ourselves why we are paying someone the Age Pension (a welfare payment) if they can afford to cruise for more than 6 weeks. One thing is for sure, they may certainly, they may qualify for more Pension after 6 weeks of cruising.

Sorry Mic I think you're wrong. We do not have to ask such a question. It's none of our business. They may have gone without for years to save the money, the cruise may have been gifted to them, they may be suffering a terminal illness using the last of their savings to finance the trip.

These people are not trying to rort the system, they have attempted to contact Centrelink but have received conflicting advice which during my limited contact with that organisation is our for the course.

I hope the OP gets the right answer to their question. :p:D

Sorry Mic I think you're wrong. We do not have to ask such a question. It's none of our business. They may have gone without for years to save the money, the cruise may have been gifted to them, they may be suffering a terminal illness using the last of their savings to finance the trip.

These people are not trying to rort the system, they have attempted to contact Centrelink but have received conflicting advice which during my limited contact with that organisation is our for the course.

I hope the OP gets the right answer to their question. :p:D

I realise that and take your point. I did not mean to infer that they or anyone were trying to rort the system or such. I realise that some may scrimp and save for a holiday. However, my point was that if someone can afford to cruise for over 6 weeks, I would be thinking that they are paying almost as much as what a full pension for the year is worth (for one anyway). If they can afford that, then perhaps they didn't need the pension just yet.

I realise that and take your point. I did not mean to infer that they or anyone were trying to rort the system or such. I realise that some may scrimp and save for a holiday. However, my point was that if someone can afford to cruise for over 6 weeks, I would be thinking that they are paying almost as much as what a full pension for the year is worth (for one anyway). If they can afford that, then perhaps they didn't need the pension just yet.

A married couple can have up to $837,000 in assets before they receive no payment, and can have up to $380,000 before losing any of the pension payment. The top amount is a substantial reduction to what it used to be. Calculations show that a couple could cruise for 6 weeks @ $200.00/day/person for a total of $16,800 which is less than half their yearly combined pension of $35,573.

We are pensioners and we cruise!

A married couple can have up to $837,000 in assets before they receive no payment, and can have up to $380,000 before losing any of the pension payment. The top amount is a substantial reduction to what it used to be. Calculations show that a couple could cruise for 6 weeks @ $200.00/day/person for a total of $16,800 which is less than half their yearly combined pension of $35,573.

 

We are pensioners and we cruise!

I realise that those are the rates. BTW, you have emphasised my point that if a couple is cruising for more than 6 weeks (Cost of $16,800) then that is as I said almost what one person would receive on a full pension for the year.

I do not begrudge people getting the pension and I do not begrudge pensioners cruising and I know the rules are what they are at the moment.

My point was that the pension is very generous at the top end of the thresholds. As you said a married couple can have more than 3/4 of a million dollars in assets (apart from their home) and still receive a pension (part) payment. So should someone that can afford to spend $16,800 plus on a holiday be on a welfare payment which is designed to be targeted to people in need.

Like I said, I don't begrudge anyone for receiving the pension and people can spend their money anyway they wish. Just a thought bubble on the sustainability of welfare payments when some people are really struggling to get the medical aids they need.

I realise that those are the rates. BTW, you have emphasised my point that if a couple is cruising for more than 6 weeks (Cost of $16,800) then that is as I said almost what one person would receive on a full pension for the year.

I do not begrudge people getting the pension and I do not begrudge pensioners cruising and I know the rules are what they are at the moment.

My point was that the pension is very generous at the top end of the thresholds. As you said a married couple can have more than 3/4 of a million dollars in assets (apart from their home) and still receive a pension (part) payment. So should someone that can afford to spend $16,800 plus on a holiday be on a welfare payment which is designed to be targeted to people in need.

Like I said, I don't begrudge anyone for receiving the pension and people can spend their money anyway they wish. Just a thought bubble on the sustainability of welfare payments when some people are really struggling to get the medical aids they need.

Eligibility for the pension has been recently cut back quite severely and it's not so much the loss of the small amount of pension the people at the top end recieve, it's the loss of the ancillary benefits that hits the hardest.

When you consider the subsidised prescriptions, discount rates and electricity, free vehicle registration, free licence, $2.50/day public transport, various discounted insurances,and a few other things which are lost when the pension is lost, it is not beyond the realms of possibility for this amount to exceed several hundred dollars per week. In our personal case the figure is actually $230.00 per week.

For those that doubt the figure, sit down and total up your own benefit, it may just shock you.

Eligibility for the pension has been recently cut back quite severely and it's not so much the loss of the small amount of pension the people at the top end recieve, it's the loss of the ancillary benefits that hits the hardest.

When you consider the subsidised prescriptions, discount rates and electricity, free vehicle registration, free licence, $2.50/day public transport, various discounted insurances,and a few other things which are lost when the pension is lost, it is not beyond the realms of possibility for this amount to exceed several hundred dollars per week. In our personal case the figure is actually $230.00 per week.

 

For those that doubt the figure, sit down and total up your own benefit, it may just shock you.

If a person is no longer eligible to receive a pension, it is likely they would qualify for the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card. This gives subsidised prescriptions, very often bulk-billing at doctors and some other benefits. There are not as many benefits as with a pension card, but that is the penalty for working hard and accumulating assets.

If a person is no longer eligible to receive a pension, it is likely they would qualify for the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card. This gives subsidised prescriptions, very often bulk-billing at doctors and some other benefits. There are not as many benefits as with a pension card, but that is the penalty for working hard and accumulating assets.

And there is no assets test for the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, just a generous income test.

Single $53,799,

Couple (combined) $86,076.

Well this has been an interesting discussion. Many thanks to those who specifically addressed the question. It’s much appreciated.

MicCanberra I’d like to address your comments directly. What would you consider acceptable discretionary spending while on a pension. Perhaps one of these? Going out for dinner, a bottle of wine or for that matter any alcohol, coffee while shopping, similarly lunch when out, playing bingo, club memberships, playing or attending sport, buying clothes just because you like them not because you need them, or perhaps own a pet? We do literally none of these ever! Cruising is what gives us pleasure so we live accordingly to make it happen. When we cruise it’s in the cheapest indoor cabin and no where near the speculated $200 per day.

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Well this has been an interesting discussion. Many thanks to those who specifically addressed the question. It’s much appreciated.

 

MicCanberra I’d like to address your comments directly. What would you consider acceptable discretionary spending while on a pension. Perhaps one of these? Going out for dinner, a bottle of wine or for that matter any alcohol, coffee while shopping, similarly lunch when out, playing bingo, club memberships, playing or attending sport, buying clothes just because you like them not because you need them, or perhaps own a pet? We do literally none of these ever! Cruising is what gives us pleasure so we live accordingly to make it happen. When we cruise it’s in the cheapest indoor cabin and no where near the speculated $200 per day.

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Enjoy your cruising. :)