Dining - Odyssey - Evening hours of operation.....

I just hope to get a further explanation of how the Encore and the Ovation appeal to those who are aspirational---more than the O Class ships--which all have similar fares.

I do too. It seems to be a snobbish assumption that those who like the additional benefits of a slightly larger ship are just mass market plebes trying to trade off. I'd argue that preference for size of ship has nothing to do with one's affluence, means, or class.

I have a couple friends who pay top dollar for the largest Haven suites on NCL. They would not dream of sailing on the luxury lines because they do not want to have to dress up on vacation. Seriously... can't get them on Seabourn no matter what. It's not price... they'd book the Wintergarden if we got them on board. It's that they dress up every day for work and want to be casual on their vacation. We have other friends who book suites on NCL or Disney or RCL or Celebrity because they are cruising with a multi-generational group and need to accommodate the needs (and sometimes budgets) of everyone involved. And still other friends who we can't get on cruises at all - but who have no problem flying private to rent a luxury villa somewhere for 10 days. Those friends usually are concerned with being "trapped" on a ship for 10 days - especially a small one - due to lack of activities (or more often, connectivity). A larger ship sometimes reduces those (unfounded) worries and their travel agents often guide them to where they think they won't be bored. (I'd count among those the single girlfriend I first tried Seabourn with... she thought it was "okay" but not nearly actual be enough and lacking in things to hold her attention.)

None of those are people who "aspire". They are just those with different travel needs but the kind of budgets that Seabourn may want to attract to build loyalty in the future (and all in the under 50 set too).

Jenidallas, well said. I have cruise on 12 different lines more than once. They all offered something different.

I enjoy the small luxury lines but some of by most enjoyed cruises have been on Celebrity S class ships in a suite. Smashing.

maggie. 1008, Would you tell us what made the Celebrity S Class smashing? We've only cruised SS and SB---and have no idea what the other lines are like. And what does S Class mean on Celebrity? I'm assuming it is more inclusive and has extra benefits?

It stands for Snob class [emoji1]

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It stands for Snob class [emoji1]

 

 

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What has been your experience on Celebrity S class that you did not like? Not worth the extra service, still too much mingling with the non-snob masses, or just ho-hum?

I have never tried them, know people who like them, but did enjoy Neptune suite on Holland America for a very brief theme cruise ( did not like the huge size of the ship despite being in my luxury cocoon well taken care of)

I’m afraid life is too short to stray from the luxury lines.

Thankfully those days are gone.

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Well, I'm sorry, I appear to have well and truely put the pigeon among the cats. I had no idea that some people would find the term 'aspirational' in some way demeaning and use that as an excuse to make thinly veiled personal attack accusing me of being a snob.

What I find objectionable is that people chose to misread or misunderstand what I wrote. To be clear: I did not catagorize those who sail on Encore as aspirational or 'mass market plebs'. I am sure there are many people far wealthier and more succesaful than I who chose to sail on her. What I did say was that it semed to me that the Encore and Ovation were part of a business plan to target people who wanted to trade up. Businesses need to develop and sustain growth. Seabourn is a business and presumabley wants to grow its customer base. Where are they going to get these new customers to fill Encore and Ovation from? Clearly they are not going to get them from the demographic who like small, intimate ships, without glamorous shows and nightly entertainment. They may well get customers from other luxury lines, who want to try something new, or different. But that is a market segment that is crowded with product already, and does not seem, to me, to be one that is going to provide fertile growth for E and O. So my point was that Seabourn, in launching these two bigger ships seems to be looking at a segement that is likely to offer the prospect of growth: people who want to trade up, who are ready to trade up, who want to move on to something better. That does not mean that the E and O are designed exclusively for 'aspirational types'. Or that if you happen to sail in them, that is what you are.

What it does seem to mean to me, though, on the basis of everything I have read in this forum, is that there is increasingly less emphasis on the things that attracted me to Seabourn in the first place, and increasingly more emphasis on things which will work on bigger ships, things which I foolishly equate with a mass market experience - although how should I know, I have only ever sailed on Seabourn ( oh, and Brittany Ferries).

So I apologise to all concerned and see the error of my ways. People who sail on Encore are clearly dripping with wealth, class and charm, are well travelled, sophisticated, some may even fly first class,aren't in the least aspirational and anybody who thinks Seabourn is going a bit mass-market is an insuferable snob.

Flamin_June, Thank you for a bit of explanation. I think I am beginning to understand. What you are saying is that the O Class ships may not be exciting, but they are intimate and quality. I get that as I sailed on a similar SS ship. What I am saying is that just the bit extra offered by the Encore was fun. What WAS the bit extra? It's not nearly a mass ship experience--but rather a TK Grill BAR (I'm not talking about the restaurant) that was very cozy (think small ship here) and a larger veranda outside of the Colonnade which meant that a table was always available for us. We also enjoyed the hot tub on deck 7 and will visit the hot tub on the other deck (where the club is) next time. By the way, we did NOT like the Club or the small band playing there. I don't think we are alone on that.

I do understand the charm of small. We've experienced it. But, a bit larger can be fun too. We went on a cruise solely to have fun after all.

Yes, I m sure larger can be fun too - after all we survived the transition from the little sisters to the O class without a nervous breakdown. I think what aerated me was all the talk of dinner at 5.30 and two seatings.

There is no dinner at 5:30 or set seatings on Encore. It is open seating--come when you want to come---beginning at 6:45---ending at 9:00pm. There has been NOTHING suggesting that set seatings are in the offing.

I still disagree with the assessment that Seabourn is trying to get new customers by targeting those who want to trade up. Rather I think they are trying to appeal to a new geveration of cruise travelers who have never cruised but don't not want to give up the comforts we've grown accustomed to in our business travels and points/miles vacations.

Many of us in our 30s and 40s are used to having hotel and airline status and this enjoying hotel suites, premium aircraft cabins, and concierge lounges regularly. Before I started cruising on Seabourn, I would have thought cruising to be a step down to what I was used to. I'd take 2-4 vacations a year, flying to my destination in business or first class and then staying a lovely suite at a top range hotel. One grows used to points/miles/status perks and doesn't want to step down.

I found Seabourn to be the only equivalent to flying first class on Cathay or Emirates or Lufthansa, enjoying private lounges, and checking into a Park Hyatt to be whisked off to a suite.

Even Gen Xers and Millennials have gotten tuned into luxury travel thanks to a plethora of blogs via The Points Guy, Boarding Area, and other aggregator sites that focus on hacking travel to get the best things. I guess Seabourn *is* aspirational in that regard that they have to decide to pony up cash rather than manufacturing credit card spend to get first class tickets. But it is the next step... and it's a significant travel demographic that Seabourn can't ignore. Winning over those travelers with sushi bars and Thomas Keller and ships that seem to promise more to do may be the best way to ensure there is a new generation to cruise when the old diehards grow too old to travel or die off.

I still disagree with the assessment that Seabourn is trying to get new customers by targeting those who want to trade up. Rather I think they are trying to appeal to a new geveration of cruise travelers who have never cruised but don't not want to give up the comforts we've grown accustomed to in our business travels and points/miles vacations.

 

Many of us in our 30s and 40s are used to having hotel and airline status and this enjoying hotel suites, premium aircraft cabins, and concierge lounges regularly. Before I started cruising on Seabourn, I would have thought cruising to be a step down to what I was used to. I'd take 2-4 vacations a year, flying to my destination in business or first class and then staying a lovely suite at a top range hotel. One grows used to points/miles/status perks and doesn't want to step down.

 

I found Seabourn to be the only equivalent to flying first class on Cathay or Emirates or Lufthansa, enjoying private lounges, and checking into a Park Hyatt to be whisked off to a suite.

 

Even Gen Xers and Millennials have gotten tuned into luxury travel thanks to a plethora of blogs via The Points Guy, Boarding Area, and other aggregator sites that focus on hacking travel to get the best things. I guess Seabourn *is* aspirational in that regard that they have to decide to pony up cash rather than manufacturing credit card spend to get first class tickets. But it is the next step... and it's a significant travel demographic that Seabourn can't ignore. Winning over those travelers with sushi bars and Thomas Keller and ships that seem to promise more to do may be the best way to ensure there is a new generation to cruise when the old diehards grow too old to travel or die off.

My daughter got there in her 20s. United 100k status and using her Amex points for long weekends at 6 star resorts. And she was far from the exception.

The problem Seabourn have is to go from 600 passengers per week in 2008, to go by next year to 2550 per week. This is massive growth and cannot be filled from existing clientele and therefore must try to appeal to all sides of the cruising public. I loved the triplets but have to admit I think the food is better on the O class ships and the cabins and balconies are better as well.

My daughter got there in her 20s. United 100k status and using her Amex points for long weekends at 6 star resorts. And she was far from the exception.

Ditto. I've been an AA Executive Platinum every year since I was 28. (And I'm now closer to 50 than I am 40!) 😉

The GenXers have been a largely ignored demographic for travel. There are tons of companies targeting Baby Boomers or Millennials. But that segment of us in between has disposable income too!

Ditto. I've been an AA Executive Platinum every year since I was 28. (And I'm now closer to 50 than I am 40!) 😉

 

The GenXers have been a largely ignored demographic for travel. There are tons of companies targeting Baby Boomers or Millennials. But that segment of us in between has disposable income too!

I think that Seabourn is clearly targeting the more affluent end of the Baby Boomer demographic which is now between 52 and 72 years of age.

I'm laughing here. The one time we went into The Club on the Encore, the band was playing 1980s music--not my favorite. We quickly left. I am 65. Would have loved some 60s or even 70s music... And, most passengers were older than we are. Just a thought.

I'm laughing here. The one time we went into The Club on the Encore, the band was playing 1980s music--not my favorite. We quickly left. I am 65. Would have loved some 60s or even 70s music... And, most passengers were older than we are. Just a thought.

Yep, I think that 60s and 70s is probably about right for the demographic.

I feel sure that Seabourn is now looking to attract 40+ passengers, to keep up the numbers over the next few years, and that they think the Encore and Ovation would appeal to them. Not really anything to do with wealth, or moving up from lower level cruising, just the sort of things to do and what is provided to appeal to a younger generation - now that some of us are likely to drop off the perch, or at least not be fit to travel, in a few years?

I feel sure that Seabourn is now looking to attract 40+ passengers, to keep up the numbers over the next few years, and that they think the Encore and Ovation would appeal to them. Not really anything to do with wealth, or moving up from lower level cruising, just the sort of things to do and what is provided to appeal to a younger generation - now that some of us are likely to drop off the perch, or at least not be fit to travel, in a few years?

Best quote of the day" ..now that some of us are likely to drop off the perch..." So very true!

I plan to use that phrase when it fits my conversation these days.:cool:

I also love "drop off the perch". My husband and I did very little travel (other than short trips) during his career as there just wasn't time--and we often had to cancel long range plans due to court dates. (Of course he thought he was crucial to any case he was handling.) Finally, we realized that we need to travel NOW. And yes, SB is going to HAVE to appeal to younger people. We did talk to some 40somethings on our cruise and they seemed to be having fun. But, who really knows.

This has been quite an interesting thread touching on a range of issues.

So... we have acknowledgement the nationality mix has changed on Seabourn to a large extent over the years. Yes, there are probably regional cruises close to home where American passengers are in the majority - probably the same for cruises around the UK and Australia.

So... still begs the question in my mind why they haven't diversified the food over the years and the offerings continue to be "Modern American" - now with added US nostalgia comfort food with TK. Thanks for posting the latest menus evidencing not a lot has changed in this department. It's a shame the only nod to international cuisine is the ubiquitous Sushi bar (on Encore) and the odd themed night in the Colonnade with limited and "modified" dishes, where Indian and Thai food are presented as somehow exotic as if Seabourners don't know the real thing. ;)

It's not an age relevant issue. We have travelled with, and had dinner with many 70s and 80 year olds who shake their head and ask for chilli, lime pickle or sambal and crave more flavour - who understand and enjoy the tastes of the world.

This is a comment. Not provocation for a discussion of likes/dislikes as we all have our preferences. Merely an illustration that I think Seabourn is going to have to tune in to the changing demographic that has been discussed on this thread fairly soon. Thankfully we can put in our special orders and there are international chefs on board who are happy to make their own regional speciality for us with a free hand. Love Seabourn, but it does need to start thinking about its global passengers if they continue to market and expand offices in locations outside Seattle HQ. IMHO

To the OP, you will find your new rhythm on board and your new favourite evening haunts and in all probability, you won't want to attend every shows anyway and will achieve "early to bed". Enjoy your cruise.

I loved this discussion. But I did get lost :) and it left me with a question. On Odyssey, can a couple usually be seated at a table for two at 7 (without waiting) and be finished with 4 courses by 9? Is that considered rushing? Would 7 to 9 be awkward at a larger table? I know there are no absolutes; just trying to set expectations.

Based on our experience the answers to your three questions are:

Yes;

No;

Yes.

Based on our experience the answers to your three questions are:

Yes;

No;

Yes.

+1

I don't think we've ever failed to get a table for 2 when we wanted one, especially if we showed up within 30 minutes of the MDR opening, which is when we tend to dine. If you want a window 2-top it helps to be first in line, or come later when the first batch of people have left.

We've always found the food comes at a fair clip once ordered, out within 2 hours easy if there's 2 of you, if we were rushing, unusual, I'm pretty sure we could be done in an hour just by asking the waiter. I read occasional comments about 'slow service' but I've never personally experienced it.

Larger tables, especially those put together out of random fellow travellers tend to stay all the way until the show starts mostly because people are chatting and having a nice time. At that point it's most definitely fine to excuse oneself and go to the show, often leaving the last few people to have an extra glass of port and close the restaurant.

Thanks for the info on the pace of dining; let's us know what generally to expect.