Will the new Panama Canal ruin Alaska cruising?

it seems more cruiselines are announcing that they are going to bring big ships (3500+) to Alaska next summer. This means there is the potential to dump 15,000+ passengers and 3,000 to 4,000 crew into Alaskan ports next summer. So what would Skagway/Juneau/ Ketchikan look like with 20,000 people in town? I was in Skagway on July 4th when the Bliss and 3 “regular” cruise ships were in town. It was packed! Sidewalks were crowded and it was hard to see the local events. The train was full and kind of miserable as it was a hot day and those cars have little ventilation. I guess a lot of shore excursions were sold out. Is this the Alaska experience people really want? Carnival already bought the train and docks in Skagway. How long before they start buying up or contracting with the independent tour operators for Yukon trips and whale watching.

So will Alaska’s popularity and the ability to bring more and larger cruise ships to the state eventually be its undoing?

Why does every major cruiseline seem to have Juneau and Ketchikan on the itinerary?

HAL has expanded to other ports like Icy Strait, Haines, Homer, Kodiak, Sitka. Not every HAL ship goes to Skagway. With more big ships in Alaska HAL will have to find some more smaller ports.....or maybe they are just trying to get back into Skagway (entry to the Yukon) again.

You may also see more mid-week departures so some of the ships are in the main ports on the weekends instead of mid-week as most are now since the majority are now 7 day itineraries that depart on Saturday or Sunday. It’s probably not ideal for the cruise lines since most people prefer a weekend departure, but it would spread out some of the crowds.

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Why would the new canal locks have anything to do with AK?

DON

We were in Ketchikan with about 9,998 other cruisers. We were in Sitka with about 5,998 other cruisers. I have no idea how many were in Juneau with us this year, but it was busy enough we had to tender.

I realize we (DH and I) are part of the problem. I am so grateful I saw some of these ports before Alaska became a huge cruise ship destination. We know enough about the ports that we can get away from the cruise ship crowds. But if this had been our first trip to Alaska we'd probably not go back.

I fear that Alaska will become a victim of its own success, like so many other tourist (not just cruise) destinations :(

Why would the new canal locks have anything to do with AK?

 

DON

The cruise lines can bring bigger ships up to Alaska from the Caribbean. Before they were limited to Panamax ships which were generally under 3000 pax

Just noticed today that Celebrity Eclipse will be re-positioned to Alaska in 2019 in addition to their "regular" two vessels". Did the opening of the new Panama Canal play a role in this decision?

it seems more cruiselines are announcing that they are going to bring big ships (3500+) to Alaska next summer. This means there is the potential to dump 15,000+ passengers and 3,000 to 4,000 crew into Alaskan ports next summer. So what would Skagway/Juneau/ Ketchikan look like with 20,000 people in town? I was in Skagway on July 4th when the Bliss and 3 “regular” cruise ships were in town. It was packed! Sidewalks were crowded and it was hard to see the local events. The train was full and kind of miserable as it was a hot day and those cars have little ventilation. I guess a lot of shore excursions were sold out. Is this the Alaska experience people really want? Carnival already bought the train and docks in Skagway. How long before they start buying up or contracting with the independent tour operators for Yukon trips and whale watching.

 

 

So will Alaska’s popularity and the ability to bring more and larger cruise ships to the state eventually be its undoing?

You are lucky that Skagway didn't shut down for the holiday. I was in Juneau on the 4th of July one time and most of the town was closed. It's one of our nations most sacred days. Government agencies closed for the day. Employers had to pay time and a half to there employees. And private operators spent time with family and friends partying. Just like we would do if we were home for the holiday. I doubt that the cruise industry will ruin any ones cruise experience because of it popularity and bringing in larger ships. Maybe people need to research there cruise a little better and expect large crowds. Most ships sail full.

As for Skagway, Just three ships not four. And what local event did you miss because of the crowds. And to complain about the ventilation on a crowded train. Really. Ever had bad ventilation on a tour bus? I would suggest you find a destination less popular to cruise next time. Alaska might just be busy for you.

I will be going back on the Jewel in two weeks enjoying weeks five and six in Alaska this season. What I missed before I will just make up the next time.:D

My summer home is a cruise ship in Alaska.

It would be nice if additional Alaskan ports were developed to help spread the crowd more...places like Valdez, Homer, Kodiak, Dutch Harbor, even perhaps to Nome. Those latter two are only visited rarely, by Trans-Pacific repo's, or North West Passage voyages. Kodiak and Homer if more ships would sail all the way up the Inlet into Anchorage, as only HAL does on it's two week roundtrip from Seattle...

Other possibilites would be some of the smaller SE Alaskan ports like Wrangell, that only smaller ships call at. Or cruises from Say Anchorage one way to or from Prince Rupert, in conjunction with a 'land cruise' on the VIA Rail to Jasper and points East...

Just noticed today that Celebrity Eclipse will be re-positioned to Alaska in 2019 in addition to their "regular" two vessels". Did the opening of the new Panama Canal play a role in this decision?

The Eclipse isn't going through the Panama Canal. We board her on March 10, 2019 for a B2B2B -- Buenos Aires to San Antonio followed by San Antonio to San Diego followed by San Diego to Vancouver.

I agree with expanding the port cities to include more options and would love mid week departures

The Eclipse isn't going through the Panama Canal. We board her on March 10, 2019 for a B2B2B -- Buenos Aires to San Antonio followed by San Antonio to San Diego followed by San Diego to Vancouver.

Princess is also moving one of its largest ships (Royal Princess - 3,600 passengers) to the west coast next February and March with a cruise around Cape Horn from Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles. It is scheduled to do the Mexican Riviera until the Alaska season starts and then will be sailing Vancouver to Whittier and vice versa.

Why would the new canal locks have anything to do with AK?

 

DON

That's what I was thinking ....

I'll be the voice on the other side of the coin here. It really bothers me to hear that bigger and more ships would sail up into the north, much like the increasingly popular trips to the Antarctic. We humans have a way of taking something beautiful and turning it into something not so beautiful just so that we can say we went there and took our pictures. The environmental impact, however, stays for a long time and is rarely positive. Our trip to Alaska was in 2016 and we were on a small ship (2000 people). Luckily, we were the first ship up in May, so we didn't have the hordes descending on these lovely small towns. I can't imagine what 20,000 people would do to Skagway or Ketchikan or Juneau. To build the ports required to accommodate even more and bigger ships would have a huge impact on the small towns along the coast that would change the ecological footprint for sure. Tourism is welcome, of course, and a large part of the economy, but shouldn't go beyond what is ecologically sound.

And as anyone who has been on a cruise knows, you scratch the surface of the country, or area, with day trips. If you really want to see an area, a land tour will serve you better. We were fortunate enough to spend two weeks in the Yukon in 2013 with a borrowed truck and camper. What was most beautiful about this northern land was its emptiness--and yes, there were tourists around. It's just so big that the tourists were mere dots. I suspect most of Alaska is the same. Obviously, not everyone can do lengthy land tours, and there is the beauty of the coast to consider, but bringer more and bigger will surely damage that beauty that everyone wants to see.

So, my two cents worth--leave it alone, and if anything, restrict the trips to the smallest ships only.

The new Panama canal locks may actually discourage ships relocating to Alaska. To pay for them, the Canal Authority has doubled the fees to transit the canal. Even a mid-sized HAL ship will now pay over $1million for a one-way transit.

Fares for that cruise will be going up considerably.

Or....it could increase the number of cruises sailing "around the Horn"....perhaps a bonus for those ports, and a lowering of fares on that route....:confused:

That's what I was thinking ....

AND THANKS FOR ASKING - I THOUGHT I MUST BE AN IDIOT!

Turns out I probably am, but I'm also appreciating the helpful responses. Thanks every one for pitching in.

I'll be the voice on the other side of the coin here. It really bothers me to hear that bigger and more ships would sail up into the north, much like the increasingly popular trips to the Antarctic. We humans have a way of taking something beautiful and turning it into something not so beautiful just so that we can say we went there and took our pictures. The environmental impact, however, stays for a long time and is rarely positive. . . . Obviously, not everyone can do lengthy land tours, and there is the beauty of the coast to consider, but bringer more and bigger will surely damage that beauty that everyone wants to see.

 

So, my two cents worth--leave it alone, and if anything, restrict the trips to the smallest ships only.

I agree with you completely. We first cruised to Alaska in 1996 and our second wasn't until 2004. The change in Ketchikan, e.g. was noticeable. Some good (SE Alaska Discovery Center), some not so good (many more stores). In 1996 our ship docked right downtown in Juneau. In 2014, we were 2-3 miles from downtown, near the Mt. Roberts tramway. Downtown was walk-able if you had the time and inclination. There might have been a shuttle; I took a tour to Mendenhall instead. The latter was "bought" at the commercial area (mostly shops, maybe some eateries) that has been built for the docks that far south of downtown. I also took the Mt. Roberts tram as it was a gorgeous, clear, and warm day. On our past trips the visibility from up there wasn't good (i.e. you couldn't see it from sea level).

Alaska was a beautiful and pristine place not that long ago. But having 10,000+ pax/day at these ports and visiting nearby areas will take its toll over time.

We are leaving soon on the HAL Noordam for Alaska. I was on the Noordam on her first passage thru the Panama Canal. She barely scraped through and required some painting at a later port. I think she is the biggest ship I've sailed in Alaska.

I have to agree with others here-we may end up spoiling a beautiful place with popularity. It reminds me of Iceland where they are struggling with the last few years of increased tourism, trying to build infrastructure without ruining the wildness people come to see.

St. Louis Sal

We went to Alaska in July. Hadn’t been in 10 years. Still beautiful but way more crowded in theports & excursions were super expensive. We ended up renting a car in the ports & it was wonderful.

The new Panama canal locks may actually discourage ships relocating to Alaska. To pay for them, the Canal Authority has doubled the fees to transit the canal. Even a mid-sized HAL ship will now pay over $1million for a one-way transit.

Fares for that cruise will be going up considerably.

Interesting comment.

Did I read that the NCL Bliss did a Panama Canal transit (to Alaska) this year with no passengers?

That would cut the transit fees substantially if true.

Interesting comment.

 

Did I read that the NCL Bliss did a Panama Canal transit (to Alaska) this year with no passengers?

That would cut the transit fees substantially if true.

No, the Bliss transit had regular paying passengers. Cruise lines are more than happy to pass the cost of the transit on to customers who are willing to pay for the experience.

It would be nice if additional Alaskan ports were developed to help spread the crowd more...places like Valdez, Homer, Kodiak, Dutch Harbor, even perhaps to Nome. Those latter two are only visited rarely, by Trans-Pacific repo's, or North West Passage voyages. Kodiak and Homer if more ships would sail all the way up the Inlet into Anchorage, as only HAL does on it's two week roundtrip from Seattle...

Other possibilites would be some of the smaller SE Alaskan ports like Wrangell, that only smaller ships call at. Or cruises from Say Anchorage one way to or from Prince Rupert, in conjunction with a 'land cruise' on the VIA Rail to Jasper and points East...

I certainly agree, Alaska needs more ports and other attractions opened for visitation. Currently our five most visited have reached or are reaching their saturation point, Denali National Park, Glacier Bay National Park, Ketchikan, Juneau and Skagway.

Problem is the logistics of doing so. You mention Nome and Dutch Harbor, it would take two nights and one day sailing to get to Dutch from Seward, about the same from Dutch to Nome. Even the Anchorage port itself creates a lot of undesirable sailing time for the lines, at least a day getting there from say Seward and a day getting back, that is why Whittier and Seward will continue being the prime ports for Anchorage proper.

Valdez used to get up to 45 smaller cruise ships per year, but guest reviews were not kind. A beautiful location as most suggested but they preferred to simply stay on the ship, as Valdez itself is a modern small town with very few unique attractions. After 9/11 even the pipeline terminus had to be discontinued as a shore excursion.

Cordova is on Prince William Sound as well as Valdez. It has the potential for a deep water port, the best in Central Alaska, however a shoal limits only but shallow draft cruise ships from getting to the current main pier, a five mile or so road plus a deep water dock would have to be constructed. Worse yet, Cordova's greatest attractions are the Million Dollar Bridge and Childs and Miles Glaciers at mile 49 on the Copper River Highway. Childs Glacier has perhaps the greatest glacier calving viewing in the world in mid-summer. Unfortunately, transportation out and back is very limited plus the road itself has been washed out for over five years now.

Most great potential opportunities for sightseeing are inside mainline Alaska and not assessable to cruise ships so post or pre cruise tours would be necessary. Also these involve significant and costly infrastructure development, like roads and perhaps quality airports. The Nation's Largest National Park, Wrangell St. Elias National Park and Preserve has only limited road access. It includes some of the grandest and least known physical features on the planet. Along with the Yukon's adjacent Kluane National Park the entire area is a world heritage site compromising the largest area in conservation status in the world. Four major mountain ranges converge here: the volcanic Wrangells, the Alaska, the Chugach, and the St. Elias—tallest coastal mountains in the world. Mount Logan on the Canadian side is the largest mountain mass on earth, over 30 miles across the top. There are 29 peaks over 13,000 feet high in the two ranges.

The Gates of the Arctic National Park is another park of immense beauty, but this Park has no roads. It is the second largest National Park in the United States as well as the most northern.

I certainly agree, Alaska needs more ports and other attractions opened for visitation. Currently our five most visited have reached or are reaching their saturation point, Denali National Park, Glacier Bay National Park, Ketchikan, Juneau and Skagway.

 

Problem is the logistics of doing so. . . .

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Thanks for your very thorough response! While the current ports are popular, what will happen to the experience when thousands more pax stop at them? We first cruised to Alaska in 1996 on a 1200-pax ship and have returned 3x on ever larger ships, the last being the Star P (out of SF) in 2014. Probably won't be returning as we age out of traveling that far just to begin a cruise. Re Valdez, we stopped there in '96 and took an excursion to a beautiful glacier so there is something there to see! I guess the larger ships can't enter College Fjord, another spectacular beauty, which we've sailed in twice.

As for Nome and Dutch Harbor, Crystal has a cruise they run every few years that stops at both those places as it sails around Alaksa and over the top of Canada through the Arctic Ocean (I followed their blog during the last one--lot of zodiac excursions to visit native villages, to see polar bears, etc.), but it is a very expensive cruise (a supply ship needs to sail with them).