Viking and the PVSA

Was looking at the Viking cruise Cuba, Panama and the Pacific in November and December of 2018 and I have a technical question. Am I missing something or does the current itinerary not violate the PVSA. The cruise goes Miami to LA or the reverse, but does not stop in either SA or one of the ABC islands. How are they going to satisfy the distant foriegn port requirement to transport passengers between 2 US ports?

The full itinerary might help

Was looking at the Viking cruise Cuba, Panama and the Pacific in November and December of 2018 and I have a technical question. Am I missing something or does the current itinerary not violate the PVSA. The cruise goes Miami to LA or the reverse, but does not stop in either SA or one of the ABC islands. How are they going to satisfy the distant foriegn port requirement to transport passengers between 2 US ports?

Miami to LA? First off Panama would qualify, as would Cuba or any other foreign port. The "distant" port angle is rather flexible, last time I looked. Could be wrong.:eek:

The full itinerary might help

Thursday, November 22Miami, FLEmbark

Friday, November 23At Sea

Saturday, November 24Santiago de Cuba, Cuba

Sunday, November 25At Sea

Monday, November 26Cienfuegos, Cuba

Tuesday, November 27At Sea

Wednesday, November 28At Sea

Thursday, November 29Puerto Limon, Costa Rica

Friday, November 30Colon, Panama

Saturday, December 1Panama Canal (Full Transit) (Cruising)

Sunday, December 2At Sea

Monday, December 3Puntarenas, Costa Rica

Tuesday, December 4Corinto, Nicaragua

Wednesday, December 5Puerto Quetzal, Guatemala

Thursday, December 6At Sea

Friday, December 7At Sea

Saturday, December 8At Sea

Sunday, December 9Cabo San Lucas, Mexico

Monday, December 10At Sea

Tuesday, December 11At Sea

Wednesday, December 12San Diego, CA

I see two possibilities.

1. They will notice this and make some sort of correction.

2. They will not notice, a huge fine will be assessed, someone will be looking for a new job.

Miami to LA? First off Panama would qualify, as would Cuba or any other foreign port. The "distant" port angle is rather flexible, last time I looked. Could be wrong.:eek:

Unless you have a very recent document that modifies the PVSA,

Panama is in Central America...does not qualify as a distant foreign port.

CBP is very specific about the 'distant' port...no flexibility.

Unless you have a very recent document that modifies the PVSA,

Panama is in Central America...does not qualify as a distant foreign port.

 

CBP is very specific about the 'distant' port...no flexibility.

Right you are. I was looking in the wrong place. My bad.;p

Thursday, November 22Miami, FLEmbark

Friday, November 23At Sea

Saturday, November 24Santiago de Cuba, Cuba

Sunday, November 25At Sea

Monday, November 26Cienfuegos, Cuba

Tuesday, November 27At Sea

Wednesday, November 28At Sea

Thursday, November 29Puerto Limon, Costa Rica

Friday, November 30Colon, Panama

Saturday, December 1Panama Canal (Full Transit) (Cruising)

Sunday, December 2At Sea

Monday, December 3Puntarenas, Costa Rica

Tuesday, December 4Corinto, Nicaragua

Wednesday, December 5Puerto Quetzal, Guatemala

Thursday, December 6At Sea

Friday, December 7At Sea

Saturday, December 8At Sea

Sunday, December 9Cabo San Lucas, Mexico

Monday, December 10At Sea

Tuesday, December 11At Sea

Wednesday, December 12San Diego, CA

 

I see two possibilities.

 

 

1. They will notice this and make some sort of correction.

 

 

2. They will not notice, a huge fine will be assessed, someone will be looking for a new job.

youll be fine because you stop in Colon.

youll be fine because you stop in Colon.

How so? Colon is in Central America. It needs to be South America.

I wonder if the ports of call at Cuba are considered distant foreign ports.

Many of the cruises from the USA leave from a Florida port, visit only Cuba, and return to the USA port.

Fine is $778 per person!

Suspect they’ll add Cartegena, Columbia as it’s close to their route.

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I wonder if the ports of call at Cuba are considered distant foreign ports.

 

Many of the cruises from the USA leave from a Florida port, visit only Cuba, and return to the USA port.

That’s a closed loop cruise, not a one way. Different rules.

I don’t think this applies to Viking. On the CBP site the PVSA law limiting coastwise trade for non-US ships defines coastwise as follows:

“@the term “coastwise” refers to vessels engaged in domestic trade, or those traveling regularly from port to port in the United States. BLACK’S LAW DICTIONARY 233 (5th ed. 1979).”

VO doesn’t engage in domestic trade or travel on a regular basis, therefore PVSA doesn’t apply.

Here’s the text of the law.

Draw your own conclusions.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICP%20Pax%20Vessel%20Services%20Act%20Apr%202010.pdf

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Another version...

http://www.cruiselaws.com/CruiseLaws/USA/Cruise_Laws_Passenger_Vessel_Security_Act_2002.pdf

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Here’s the text of the law.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICP%20Pax%20Vessel%20Services%20Act%20Apr%202010.pdf

 

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The link you gave doesn't work. Don't know why. But perhaps this one that contains a link to the pdf document you were trying to share does: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

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Bottom line - I agree it be confusing but clearly given the fact they've done cruises from Miami to LA via the Panama Canal before and have them scheduled now, I would think they've got it covered. Now to read the full text of that pdf.

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The link you gave doesn't work. Don't know why. But perhaps this one that contains a link to the pdf document you were trying to share does: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

 

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Works fine for me. And has a Viking done a Panama Cruise before?

Viking does have a Miami to LA that transits the canal but does not touch a South American port. They did do a Central America cruise, but it left and returned to the same US port - Miami. Issue is when US departure and disembarking ports are different.

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Based on my understanding of the US PVSA, the cruise outlined in a previous post does not comply with the Act, unless the vessel has a coastal trade certificate - this means it was built in the US, maintained entirely in the US and crewed by US crew.

Since the Viking ships do not meet any of these criteria; for a non-coastal vessel to transport passengers from 1 US port to another US port, either directly or via a foreign port, it must visit at least 1 port meeting the criteria for a "Distant Foreign" port.

The Act exempts all Canadian, Central American, Bermuda, Bahamas and all Caribbean Ports (except ABC islands) as being distant foreign ports. I believe the Panama Canal, Colon, Cristobal, Panama City are considered to be in Central America.

Therefore, for this cruise to meet the requirements of the PVSA, my understanding of the Act is it must dock in Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao or any South American port, such as Cartagena.

Works fine for me. And has a Viking done a Panama Cruise before?

Yes. Panama & Central America, started and ended in Miami. Cruises were from Nov 2017 thru Jan 2018. Included a half transit of the Canal - up to the Gatun Lake and back. The reaction to it was I think not that great. We did it last January. And there were some issues. So I think the Miami to San Diego cruise may be a replacement for it. Again - I think a careful reading of the pvsa doc from 2010 make it clear that they're not in violation. And I really think that the legal beagles at Viking aren't stupid.

Oh. The cruise we did last January did hit Cartagena.

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Yes. Panama & Central America, started and ended in Miami. Cruises were from Nov 2017 thru Jan 2018. Included a half transit of the Canal - up to the Gatun Lake and back. The reaction to it was I think not that great. We did it last January. And there were some issues. So I think the Miami to San Diego cruise may be a replacement for it. Again - I think a careful reading of the pvsa doc from 2010 make it clear that they're not in violation. And I really think that the legal beagles at Viking aren't stupid.

 

 

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To me Cuba is the unknown. Everything else is an absolute violation. But I have no idea of Cuba’s affect on the act.

A half transit runs on completely different rules as it returns to the same port. No distant port required.

To me Cuba is the unknown. Everything else is an absolute violation. But I have no idea of Cuba’s affect on the act.

 

 

 

A half transit runs on completely different rules as it returns to the same port. No distant port required.

OK. If they add a stop in Cartagena before the transit thru the Canal?

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OK. If they add a stop in Cartagena before the transit thru the Canal?

 

 

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Absolutely. That’s what most ships do.

Viking monitors this forum pretty well. Who wants to take bets on a change to that itinerary?[emoji848]

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How long must a ship stay in the "distant port" for it to count? Could they pull into Cartagena for an hour or two overnight?