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I think I'm officially finished with P&S Cameras...


markeb
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MAYBE still an advanced model like my G7X, but otherwise, they're dead to me now...

 

I upgraded my iPhone a week ago to an iPhone 8. This is the first time I've really felt my phone could actually take good to great photos. No, I didn't try low light (didn't have a good opportunity), but with any light at all, including some indoor shots in a cathedral, the phone was outstanding. AND, it fits in my pocket...

 

I will probably always feel uncomfortable in many settings (such as the deck of a cruise ship) without a wrist strap or the like to keep me from dropping my "camera", but technologically, for many applications, I'm really think the phone has caught up!

 

i-SP7LSbp-X2.jpg

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MAYBE still an advanced model like my G7X, but otherwise, they're dead to me now...

 

I upgraded my iPhone a week ago to an iPhone 8. This is the first time I've really felt my phone could actually take good to great photos. No, I didn't try low light (didn't have a good opportunity), but with any light at all, including some indoor shots in a cathedral, the phone was outstanding. AND, it fits in my pocket...

 

I will probably always feel uncomfortable in many settings (such as the deck of a cruise ship) without a wrist strap or the like to keep me from dropping my "camera", but technologically, for many applications, I'm really think the phone has caught up!

 

i-SP7LSbp-X2.jpg

 

Right there with you on this. My P&S left me when I got my Nokia Icon and never came back. I now have a Pixel and will likely never own another P&S.

 

With computational photo capture, the tiny sensors in the top phones outshoot pretty much all compact cameras except the 1" sensor models like the RX100 series. Zoom is still an issue, but give them some time...

 

Because of Apple's BSB design philosophy (Beautiful, Slippery & Brittle), I assume you have a case for your iPhone. Check out the BlackRapid WandeR phone tether. It attaches to your case down by the charger port and has a loop and wrist strap with a removable carabiner. The charging port is still easily accessible with the strap loop in place.

 

JiR9KixOTNG7._UX220_TTW__.jpg

 

I got one for the same reason you described and ended up leaving it on all the time.

 

Dave

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technologically, for many applications, I'm really think the phone has caught up!

I agree with this part of your statement. I've taken photos with my iPhone 6s and been quite pleased with the results.

 

However...

The phones lack an optical zoom. On my last vacation, I forgot my phone at home one evening, and was restricted to taking photos with the iPhone. I got some great photos ... but I was lacking certain options by not having the zoom available.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's physics. If your lens and sensor are about the size of a grain of rice, then there are limits. Basically, if you can slide a camera into your jeans pocket, your phone is probably as good or better. Certainly more convenient.

 

I've got a skinny little Leica C (a rebranded Panasonic DMC-LF1) and it struggled in low light. I doubt I'll travel with it again. I brought it aboard for dinner images and I missed so many shots. When I took some care, it was okay, but it was chancey.

 

41868581032_b14820603a_c.jpg

 

My Leica D-Lux was chunkier, with a fixed lens, but performed extremely well. ƒ1.7 - 2.8 10.9 - 34mm lens with an M43 equivalent sensor. It lived in a pouch on my belt. At a pinch, that's all I need. It was easily able to outperform a phone, such as getting a bit of bokeh, or shooting HDR (like straight into the sun).

 

27075827497_6c2144055c_c.jpg

 

39977861450_62a1cf5665_c.jpg

 

Of course, having something like Lightroom helps a lot. But how many phone cameras shoot RAW?

 

For most people and most purposes, a new-ish phone will do just fine.

 

For those wanting to make photographs that go a step or two further, a P&S isn't going to cut it anyway.

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MAYBE still an advanced model like my G7X, but otherwise, they're dead to me now...

 

I upgraded my iPhone a week ago to an iPhone 8. This is the first time I've really felt my phone could actually take good to great photos. No, I didn't try low light (didn't have a good opportunity), but with any light at all, including some indoor shots in a cathedral, the phone was outstanding. AND, it fits in my pocket...

Your cathedral shot is an excellent example of where phone photography is nowadays. There are "clip-on" zooms and macros that help get more difficult shots, but I think for general photography a good phone is all most travellers need nowadays.

 

Something like a Sony RX100 will take it up a level without getting too chunky. But you're then looking at a solid slab of money, well out of the general P&S range.

 

Just about everyone has a phone.

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My iPhone has replaced my p&s since around the iPhone 4 or 5 days. Once we got the 7, it's been able to sideline the big DSLR in bright conditions. And the X is even noticeably better.

 

When lighting gets iffy though, or you want something that really pops, I still use the DSLR. But the iPhone is still great to practice on being a good photographer rather than simply knowing how to manipulate equipment or software. There's an art to it in addition to technical knowledge and I have friends who can take beautiful shots off an iPhone that would take me a DSLR + software to recreate so I know I've still got a lot of room to improve.

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I have friends who can take beautiful shots off an iPhone that would take me a DSLR + software to recreate.

The iPhone software does a lot of the same lighting and color manipulation that you would do in photo editing software. The software has gotten very good at making intelligent, automated photo editing decisions.

 

It's easy for me to get great photos with an iPhone. The phone does a substantial amount of the work. In many circumstances, it takes more skill and effort to get the same photo with my point-and-shoot cameras.

 

Given the kind of budget that the staff at Apple, Samsung and Google have at their disposal, I suspect their automated photo editing has greatly surpassed that of most camera manufacturers or photo editor software designers. The iPhone's automated software occasionally makes mistakes (particularly by making the colors too vivid, even for shots where I might want the color a little more vivid than reality), but if a person wasn't looking at the original scene, it's often hard to tell what enhancements the software made.

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https://witharsenal.com/

 

Like that thing. Software is getting good.

 

The thing is, because the sensor is so small in those camera phones, iffy lighting still tends to stump the software. But I have friends who can make up for that some. Enough to make it look good on Facebook anyways. I'm not that good with an iPhone yet.

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I still use two P&S a lot. One is a Nikon Coolpix P900 with an incredible and very nice built in 2000mm lens. I got tired of hauling around different lens for my DSLR. The other one fits in the palm of my hand and is a Nikon Coolpix A900. Both are far superior to any phone camera out there

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I have an iPhone 8 Plus and that, as well as the iPhone X, comes with two cameras forward (and one selfie camera). The two cameras have different focal lengths, so you don’t have to use optical zoom quite as much. It also has a “portrait” feature that is actually a combination of two photos to get a depth-of-field effect.

It is a much bigger phone than the iPhone 8, but when I saw its camera I had to get the plus. I enjoy taking food photos at restaurants and putting them on yelp. I will try to attach a food photo I took with the portrait feature soon. I can’t attach it straight from my phone because it is too large.

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I still use two P&S a lot. One is a Nikon Coolpix P900 with an incredible and very nice built in 2000mm lens. I got tired of hauling around different lens for my DSLR. The other one fits in the palm of my hand and is a Nikon Coolpix A900. Both are far superior to any phone camera out there

 

Depends on the use. Certainly more optical zoom than any phone.

 

But the good phone cameras have faster aperture lenses, better processors and more advanced sensors, giving a camera like the iPhone 8+ better low light capability and better image quality than something like the p900. But obviously you don’t get the long optical zoom.

 

It’s quite telling that the camera brands have all but stopped releasing new point and shoot cameras. I’m sure there will still be a handful of updates, but I don’t think Canon/Nikon/Sony have done a single point and shoot in 2018 yet. They just can’t compete with phones.

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Here are two photos I took with my iPhone 8 plus today at lunch, using the portrait feature. I downsized them in Lightroom on my laptop (couldn't figure out how to do it on my phone), but I didn't do anything else to them.

 

I will bring my Nikon D90 on my Alaskan cruise, but I'm fine with the iPhone for dinner photos and other times when I don't have my big camera on me.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=421556&stc=1&d=1526701050

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=421557&stc=1&d=1526701050

portrait-1.thumb.jpg.54c46a7cbc90556174ac4df6d1cae3de.jpg

portrait-2.thumb.jpg.7ab71dbed5ae3c17f8cfc7a3e5a77709.jpg

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As one of the few that don't have a cell phone, I still use my old Canon A2000IS when not taking the 5D. Even with IS and 6x optical zoom, DW takes casual photos with her phone (iphone 6) that are almost as good.

 

I have tried her phone, but I just can't get a level of comfort holding the phone and frequently end up with fingers covering the lens. Also find the phone much harder to hold steady and frequently take multiple shots rather than a single.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We are heading out on an Alaskan cruise next month and I am spending today researching decent SMALL P&S options strictly because of the higher optical zoom options - all in an attempt to avoid the "see, there's a bear in my picture...than tiny brown dot!" syndrome and capture some reasonable detail. Of course, most of the small units (Nikon P900 types need not apply) all have a number of sacrifices and even then I'm not sure I want to drop $400 to $600 for something like a Panasonic ZS70/100 when it may feel a bit like a one trick pony. Of course, my first question will be "how much 'zoom' do I really need for Alaska"??? Sigh.

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So I spent some time (as in 2 hours) at my local Best Buy yesterday taking shots with Sony HX80 ($339) and a Panasonic ZS100 ($549). I also took similar shots with my new Samsung S9+. It took a while because I also loaded Sony and Panasonic's respective software onto my phone so I could wirelessly transfer pictures from the cameras to my phone (so I could take them home to compare). The biggest challenge was that Sony's software (PlayMemories Mobile) would not transfer the "full size" JPEG image files despite me having set it to transfer at "original size" - so it is not a full apples-to-apples comparison. Beyond that, of course, I was limited to what I could take pictures of (i.e. inside the bright Best Buy tethered to the display).

 

Anyway, as my sole motivation for looking at these was their zoom capabilities (for upcoming trip to Alaska), I focused (no pun intended) on that aspect. The Sony has a 30X optical zoom, while the Panasonic has a 10X. However, the Panasonic has a much larger sensor (1") compared to the Sony. My Samsung S9+ (the bigger phone) has a second telephoto lens - for it I took shots using both the regular lens and optical zoom telephoto. In addition, the primary camera has a dual aperture setup (i.e. it PHYSICALLY changes the aperture between f1.5 and f2.4...you can actually watch it close and open on the back, although all of these were at 2.4 since the store is so bright).

 

My initial assessment (all shots in auto modes) is:

 

  • Panasonic ZS100 - Pictures are just soft across the board. Disappointed overall in this camera. Under any kind of zoom in ratchets up the ISO and introduces noise (even with the large sensor). F stop ratchets up as well.
  • Samsung S9+ - Sheesh, phone cameras have gotten ridiculously good. In general when I compared shots from my Samsung I was getting better image quality across the board from the Samsung. Admittedly Samsung overexposes everything (blowing out bright spots/ highlights occasionally), but it was almost always much notably sharper than either the Sony or Panasonic. The F stop is always low low and so was ISO so minimal grain. I was able to crop shots taken using my main camera and get a more solid image than the ZS100 on partial zoom. The 2x (55mm) was able to do similar but up to say 5X or 6X. The compromise does not come into play until the higher zooms...which brings me to the Sony.
  • Sony HX80 - At no zoom or modest zooms, the Sony was in the ballpark of the Samsung, but honestly, the Samsung (either regular or Telephoto) was still better overall (if it wasn't for the sometimes blown highlights, the Sammy would always win as it was just plain sharper). It is at about 10-12X zoom and above that the HX80 starts to come into its own. At 20-30X the Samsung is no longer playing in the same ballpark. There are simply shots here that no amount of cropping on the Samsung is going to achieve (esp at 20X+).

The takeaways:

So, my initial takeaways are that the Samsung is very solid for all but the really long zooms. I came to appreciate its 2X telephoto lens in this test as it made a noticeable difference, adding more than you would think in terms of distance reduction WITHOUT any big drops in sharpness, lighting, etc.

 

 

The ZS100 is effectively off my list. Just way too much compromise across the board especially given its price point. I was disappointed given its sensor, etc. I suspect manual modes might have resulted in better shots, but I'm not interested in messing with it (just like I am not interested in hauling my old Nikon D70 SLR on the trip) and even then, I bet they wouldn't be THAT much better

 

 

So that leaves the Sony HX80. The Sony would be "tolerable" for regular, wide angle shots, but I think it would struggle in some indoor, lower light settings. I was, however, pleasantly surprised by its long zoom capabilities in this admittedly limited test (although I am a little concerned about how it will do outdoors in lower light, overcast days).

The final wrinkle in all of this is that I just got my Samsung S9+ and am thinking of returning it for the smaller S9. The S9+ is my first "big" phone and although I am getting used to the physical size of it, it is the WEIGHT that bugs me (I swear I am getting some hand fatigue holding it!). One of the downsides is that I lose the second telephoto camera (along with 2gb of ram and the bigger battery and screen - everything else is identical). As noted above, I really came to appreciate the telephoto lens in this test and I suspect I might in regular life too (note: I've only had the phone for a week), but it seems a little goofy to keep a phone I am having trouble holding for the occasional use of the telephoto lens. On the upside, the S9 is cheaper by $150 and that would let me put money toward the HX80 (which makes it a little more palatable).

 

 

The photos:

Links to photos are below, best way to view is to open them side by side on a larger monitor. You can play with the zooming, etc. Please note, although these are all compressed from their original size, the Sony shots were much smaller in size due to the aforementioned "PlayMemories" software transfer issue.

 

 

Samsung S9+ Photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6TdQnEqejsN7z2i69

 

 

Sony HX80 Photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/THu2PS2S1qVtYkNN9

 

 

Panasonic ZS100 Photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/THu2PS2S1qVtYkNN9

 

 

I'm still on the fence (both about swapping to the smaller phone and getting the HX80, so we'll see). Happy to hear any other thoughts!

Edited by cabland
typos
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When I've gone into Best Buy (or any other camera store), I take along my own sd card so I can take the images home. I show the sales associate so they know it's my card. If you're going to evaluate more than one camera, take extra cards because you should format them as you put them in the camera.

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I mostly use my Samsung phone now, but for new picturesque itins still take DSLR. I only have Tokina 12-24 slow f4 lens, but it takes landscape photos not comparable with phone's or p&s.

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When I've gone into Best Buy (or any other camera store), I take along my own sd card so I can take the images home. I show the sales associate so they know it's my card. If you're going to evaluate more than one camera, take extra cards because you should format them as you put them in the camera.

 

Yes, ironically, we had to do just that anyway since the ZS100 had no internal memory and it would not transfer a photo realtime to my phone w/o one (employee popped one on).

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I mostly use my Samsung phone now, but for new picturesque itins still take DSLR. I only have Tokina 12-24 slow f4 lens, but it takes landscape photos not comparable with phone's or p&s.

 

Interestingly enough, even though I was shopping for P&Ses with more zoom, I can't help but wonder if wider wouldn't be the real play for Alaska (if it came down to choosing between better zoom and width). Indeed, with my aforementioned phone, I considered swapping to one of the new LG phones where their second camera is ultrawide instead of 2X telephoto like the Samsung.

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Interestingly enough, even though I was shopping for P&Ses with more zoom, I can't help but wonder if wider wouldn't be the real play for Alaska (if it came down to choosing between better zoom and width). Indeed, with my aforementioned phone, I considered swapping to one of the new LG phones where their second camera is ultrawide instead of 2X telephoto like the Samsung.

 

Wide for Alaska scenery and towns, Tele for it's beasties.

 

If you don't plan on wildlife-centric tours, wide to normal should put you in a good place.

 

Dave

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Phone cameras have certainly gotten better over the last 10 years, I can only imagine what they will be like in another 10 years. I use both my iPhone 7 and my DSLR to shoot when I travel as both have their advantages in certain situations.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've largely ignored my own thread...

 

There are some very good points on both sides in this thread. I have a ton of photos to go through from a trip to the UK last month. A lot of those were taken with the iPhone; the rest with the Sony a6500 and Sony/Zeiss 16-70 lens. I "think" I can tell the difference without cheating. When my wife and I were out sightseeing, the Sony was wonderful. When we were just wandering around and wanted a photo (and when she was by herself with only an iPhone 8), the iPhone did great at capturing a memory.

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I've largely ignored my own thread...

 

There are some very good points on both sides in this thread. I have a ton of photos to go through from a trip to the UK last month. A lot of those were taken with the iPhone; the rest with the Sony a6500 and Sony/Zeiss 16-70 lens. I "think" I can tell the difference without cheating. When my wife and I were out sightseeing, the Sony was wonderful. When we were just wandering around and wanted a photo (and when she was by herself with only an iPhone 8), the iPhone did great at capturing a memory.

 

The best camera for all situations is two (or three cameras)!

 

:)

 

 

Dave

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