Check your mail - just got a survey from HAL on their new website.

And Holland America's has survived.

Which no one has disputed.

Which no one has disputed.

So what you're saying is that people are implying that the changes to the website will hurt the cruise line but they don't really mean it.

 

Interesting.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

So what you're saying is that people are implying that the changes to the website will hurt the cruise line but they don't really mean it.

 

Interesting.

Not at all. You might want to go back and actually read the posts, yours included.

If you think that the HAL site is wonderful then that is great. Use it, book cruises, enjoy it. Other people out there may have a different opinion of the the site. Different opinions are what makes the world go round.

 

It is more than a little silly to keep trying to refute or even change someone's opinion. Why not simply accept that some people's opinion may differ from yours. Clearly, in your view, they must be completely wrong and misinformed but it is after all just their opinion.

Why not simply accept that some people's opinion may differ from yours.

Some people just like to bicker.

Not at all. You might want to go back and actually read the posts, yours included.

I did read the posts. Your evasive reply solidifies my understanding. I understand. You don't want to provide a straight reply because it will to readily highly that which I pointed out.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

If you think that the HAL site is wonderful then that is great. Use it, book cruises, enjoy it. Other people out there may have a different opinion of the the site. Different opinions are what makes the world go round.

 

It is more than a little silly to keep trying to refute or even change someone's opinion. Why not simply accept that some people's opinion may differ from yours. Clearly, in your view, they must be completely wrong and misinformed but it is after all just their opinion.

I agree that any and all comments about whether we like the website are extraneous. The only matter worth making clear is the business aspects which aren't a matter of opinion, such as how such variety of likes and dislikes are common - actually, universal - and how that does NOT mean what some have tried to make it sounds like it means, ie, that there are severe problems with the website itself, that those running the cruise line don't know how to run a cruise line better than done random people on the internet, etc.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

As usual you are absolutely correct. Does that make you happy?

So what you're saying is that people are implying that the changes to the website will hurt the cruise line but they don't really mean it.

 

Interesting.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

 

I did read the posts. Your evasive reply solidifies my understanding. I understand. You don't want to provide a straight reply because it will to readily highly that which I pointed out.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

Stop pontificating and stop telling other people what they are saying. You may be reading other people's posts, but you either fail to understand them or read into them implications that simply aren't there. BTW, you might want to go back and count the number of times you start your response to other posters with "Nonsense..." We are here to exchange ideas and information, not to listed to your constant lectures.

Stop pontificating and stop telling other people what they are saying. You may be reading other people's posts, but you either fail to understand them or read into them implications that simply aren't there. BTW, you might want to go back and count the number of times you start your response to other posters with "Nonsense..." We are here to exchange ideas and information, not to listed to your constant lectures.

 

 

...and bickering. [emoji30]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't usually get sucked into these discussions, but really want to make a point: notwithstanding what BUU is posting, corporate management makes mistakes. That companies are still profitable, and still increase profit, does not mean that mistakes do not happen with, occasionally, reversals in approach or direction. Corporate management is also not infallible and all knowing through sophisticated methodology, etc. Rather, despite such sophistication, mistakes still do happen.

 

The B Schools are littered with case studies of mistakes made--for whatever reasons including executives not willing to speak up, "group-think", etc. Classic ones include "new coke"--remember that? Yet despite that being a mistake (with, arguably a good save when "classic" was brought back), coke was then and still is now a profitable company. Profits, again, however, does not mean a company is immune from doing something wrong.

 

Another example that many Canadians and some Americans will know is Target, and how it expanded into Canada...then, within 24 months of that, having squandered all the goodwill, the American parent bankrupted the Canadian entity and left Canada with its tail between its legs. Yet, so far as I know, Target remains as successful as any retailer can be in the age of Amazon--despite that whopper of a mistake.

 

What about HAL? Immune from mistakes? Well, how about the move some years back to remove the aft pools from the Veendam and Rotterdam? The plan was to put in wading pools in those classes of ships and add cabin space (thus, increasing revenue). When that plan attracted much negative feedback, and operational angst (like leaks, etc.) it was shelved. So, in other words, HAL reversed course and backed off its plan. Yet CCL has, as BUU has pointed out, still increased profits.

 

Again, however, we are not talking of profits. We are talking of a company that heeds feedback, especially consistent feedback, from multiple channels, and makes the necessary changes in response when in the "real operational world" what seemed like a sure-fire winner turns out to be a dud of an idea.

 

Regarding the website, notwithstanding those who defend it (for reasons unclear--perhaps as Ruth C stated, just to be contrary), it is likely a work in progress. The more people who have feedback to share about it, such feedback will benefit HAL and will benefit the rest of us. Consider delivery of feedback to be thus "enlightened self-interest".

 

Finally, notwithstanding statements about marketing departments and plans, how all these executives know better, etc., we all know that plans can go awry. Again, see the B School case studies of business examples of failures despite all the brilliant marketing and others in corporate planning--an older example that comes to mind is the Edsel. Do we not think that Ford did not market-test that vehicle and the concept thoroughly before blowing in those days ( late1950's for younger readers) millions on it--all which was flushed down the sewer.

 

Most businesses value customer feedback. The only exception that comes to mind is the airline bizz--anecdotal to be sure on my part. Yet leaving that industry aside, most businesses, big and small, appreciate customer feedback, especially if its reasoned and relevant. So, again, if you have feedback on the website, please do send it to HAL via the various direct channels to them.

 

In that regard, ignore those who say it does not matter, and that "they" know better. I believe that it does matter and that such feedback will be heard.

 

Safe and happy travels, all!

 

(this message was typed directly without use of voice recognition, but hopefully with some thought attached)

I don't usually get sucked into these discussions, but really want to make a point: notwithstanding what BUU is posting, corporate management makes mistakes. That companies are still profitable, and still increase profit, does not mean that mistakes do not happen with, occasionally, reversals in approach or direction. Corporate management is also not infallible and all knowing through sophisticated methodology, etc. Rather, despite such sophistication, mistakes still do happen.

 

 

 

The B Schools are littered with case studies of mistakes made--for whatever reasons including executives not willing to speak up, "group-think", etc. Classic ones include "new coke"--remember that? Yet despite that being a mistake (with, arguably a good save when "classic" was brought back), coke was then and still is now a profitable company. Profits, again, however, does not mean a company is immune from doing something wrong.

 

 

 

Another example that many Canadians and some Americans will know is Target, and how it expanded into Canada...then, within 24 months of that, having squandered all the goodwill, the American parent bankrupted the Canadian entity and left Canada with its tail between its legs. Yet, so far as I know, Target remains as successful as any retailer can be in the age of Amazon--despite that whopper of a mistake.

 

 

 

What about HAL? Immune from mistakes? Well, how about the move some years back to remove the aft pools from the Veendam and Rotterdam? The plan was to put in wading pools in those classes of ships and add cabin space (thus, increasing revenue). When that plan attracted much negative feedback, and operational angst (like leaks, etc.) it was shelved. So, in other words, HAL reversed course and backed off its plan. Yet CCL has, as BUU has pointed out, still increased profits.

 

 

 

Again, however, we are not talking of profits. We are talking of a company that heeds feedback, especially consistent feedback, from multiple channels, and makes the necessary changes in response when in the "real operational world" what seemed like a sure-fire winner turns out to be a dud of an idea.

 

 

 

Regarding the website, notwithstanding those who defend it (for reasons unclear--perhaps as Ruth C stated, just to be contrary), it is likely a work in progress. The more people who have feedback to share about it, such feedback will benefit HAL and will benefit the rest of us. Consider delivery of feedback to be thus "enlightened self-interest".

 

 

 

Finally, notwithstanding statements about marketing departments and plans, how all these executives know better, etc., we all know that plans can go awry. Again, see the B School case studies of business examples of failures despite all the brilliant marketing and others in corporate planning--an older example that comes to mind is the Edsel. Do we not think that Ford did not market-test that vehicle and the concept thoroughly before blowing in those days ( late1950's for younger readers) millions on it--all which was flushed down the sewer.

 

 

 

Most businesses value customer feedback. The only exception that comes to mind is the airline bizz--anecdotal to be sure on my part. Yet leaving that industry aside, most businesses, big and small, appreciate customer feedback, especially if its reasoned and relevant. So, again, if you have feedback on the website, please do send it to HAL via the various direct channels to them.

 

 

 

In that regard, ignore those who say it does not matter, and that "they" know better. I believe that it does matter and that such feedback will be heard.

 

 

 

Safe and happy travels, all!

 

 

 

(this message was typed directly without use of voice recognition, but hopefully with some thought attached)

 

 

 

Very insightful! I really appreciated your very logical analysis and totally agree. Having worked for a company that continuously asked for customer feedback, I know that companies appreciate the feedback and do make changes based on what they receive. The only comment I would add is that the feedback needs to be specific and constructive versus whiny and vague. Simply saying “I don’t like it” is not sufficient or actionable, so if that’s all that is offered, we can’t expect any changes to be made. Otherwise, great insight!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

I don't usually get sucked into these discussions, but really want to make a point: notwithstanding what BUU is posting, corporate management makes mistakes. That companies are still profitable, and still increase profit, does not mean that mistakes do not happen with, occasionally, reversals in approach or direction. Corporate management is also not infallible and all knowing through sophisticated methodology, etc. Rather, despite such sophistication, mistakes still do happen.

 

The B Schools are littered with case studies of mistakes made--for whatever reasons including executives not willing to speak up, "group-think", etc. Classic ones include "new coke"--remember that? Yet despite that being a mistake (with, arguably a good save when "classic" was brought back), coke was then and still is now a profitable company. Profits, again, however, does not mean a company is immune from doing something wrong.

 

Another example that many Canadians and some Americans will know is Target, and how it expanded into Canada...then, within 24 months of that, having squandered all the goodwill, the American parent bankrupted the Canadian entity and left Canada with its tail between its legs. Yet, so far as I know, Target remains as successful as any retailer can be in the age of Amazon--despite that whopper of a mistake.

 

What about HAL? Immune from mistakes? Well, how about the move some years back to remove the aft pools from the Veendam and Rotterdam? The plan was to put in wading pools in those classes of ships and add cabin space (thus, increasing revenue). When that plan attracted much negative feedback, and operational angst (like leaks, etc.) it was shelved. So, in other words, HAL reversed course and backed off its plan. Yet CCL has, as BUU has pointed out, still increased profits.

 

Again, however, we are not talking of profits. We are talking of a company that heeds feedback, especially consistent feedback, from multiple channels, and makes the necessary changes in response when in the "real operational world" what seemed like a sure-fire winner turns out to be a dud of an idea.

 

Regarding the website, notwithstanding those who defend it (for reasons unclear--perhaps as Ruth C stated, just to be contrary), it is likely a work in progress. The more people who have feedback to share about it, such feedback will benefit HAL and will benefit the rest of us. Consider delivery of feedback to be thus "enlightened self-interest".

 

Finally, notwithstanding statements about marketing departments and plans, how all these executives know better, etc., we all know that plans can go awry. Again, see the B School case studies of business examples of failures despite all the brilliant marketing and others in corporate planning--an older example that comes to mind is the Edsel. Do we not think that Ford did not market-test that vehicle and the concept thoroughly before blowing in those days ( late1950's for younger readers) millions on it--all which was flushed down the sewer.

 

Most businesses value customer feedback. The only exception that comes to mind is the airline bizz--anecdotal to be sure on my part. Yet leaving that industry aside, most businesses, big and small, appreciate customer feedback, especially if its reasoned and relevant. So, again, if you have feedback on the website, please do send it to HAL via the various direct channels to them.

 

In that regard, ignore those who say it does not matter, and that "they" know better. I believe that it does matter and that such feedback will be heard.

 

Safe and happy travels, all!

 

(this message was typed directly without use of voice recognition, but hopefully with some thought attached)

 

Excellent post and well said :)

I don't usually get sucked into these discussions, but really want to make a point: notwithstanding what BUU is posting, corporate management makes mistakes.

Of course they do. The question is when that happens and how does one know. Because a passenger doesn't like something isn't a good indicator of that. Because it offends a passenger's traditionalist sensibilities isn't a good indicator of that. The only business analysis I criticize is such non-analysis, when people are making statements about the business based on nothing anyone should ever base business analysis. This forum is supposed to help people enjoy their cruise vacations more, not deceptively turn people off of the cruise line - people who might be exactly the kind of people who the changes to the cruise line appeal to - deceptively turn those people off of the cruise line because you don't like that the cruise line has changed to appeal to those people.

 

The B Schools are littered with case studies of mistakes made--for whatever reasons including executives not willing to speak up, "group-think", etc.

Remarkably, case studies are a very very very very small percentage of the entire set of business decisions ever made. :rolleyes:

 

Everyone thinks they can drive the bus better than the bus driver. Guess what. It isn't true.

you either fail to understand them or read into them implications that simply aren't there.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that.

 

Also, when people merely "exchange ideas and information" these business analysis discussions never emerge. It is only when people present their personal pet peeves as if they are business analysis that we get onto the topic of business analysis.

(this message was typed directly without use of voice recognition, but hopefully with some thought attached)

I won't quote your entire post, as there's no need.

I do want to congratulate you on a thorough, thoughtful, analysis of the situation. Very well done.

Thank you.

Wonderful analysis-although I still think that the HAL website is a pig.

 

You can put lots of lipstick on that pig but at the end of the day it is still a pig.

I think several teams worked on different parts of the site. I've noticed that the system forces me to log in again and again, if I'm going to the cruise planner section w/ different cruises.

 

I don't care for the unnecessary graphics. Why must I wait ten seconds for the HAL logo to load when trying to buy shore excursions.

 

Too many coloring book maps. I go immediate to list mode when searching for cruises. If they had nearby points of interest on the maps, maybe. But just the outline of the port and the port name on it seems pretty useless to me. We keep having to pull out our hard copy atlas to check the geography of the area.

When they don't, will you acknowledge it as indication that they received more feedback contrary to yours (i.e., feedback consistent with mine) than feedback consistent with yours?

 

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

Picky, picky, picky.

I think several teams worked on different parts of the site. I've noticed that the system forces me to log in again and again, if I'm going to the cruise planner section w/ different cruises.

That was one of the first indications that I had that the complaints were to some extent driven by people not paying attention. They were claiming that "now" they had to log in twice when that has been the case for years. Some even proceeded to complain about changes to parts of the website that had not changed.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

They were claiming that "now" they had to log in twice when that has been the case for years.

If this has been a problem for years, it's too bad that HAL chose not to fix it with the new website.

....... :rolleyes:

 

Everyone thinks they can drive the bus better than the bus driver. Guess what. It isn't true.

 

Guess what. That applies to you, too. :D Go ahead and enjoy your upcoming cruise on Nieuw Amsterdam with your wife. I don't why it has become your mission to care what we think, lol:D. You aren't going to dissuade us, and we aren't going to dissuade you. Have a great time in the Great Land.

Those who have offered thoughtful critiques of the HAL website could not credibly be accused of "deceptively turning people off the cruiseline", as BUU j'accuses.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the opinions criticizing the website in my view are supported by clear examples of problems. Such is hardly gratuitous.

 

Some may disagree, yet that does not make their opinion more valid than any other.

 

As to b-school case studies being only a small sample, well, i thought that was obvious. They are studies, after all. Most business people (most everyone, in fact) knows that " life is a series of nebulous victories and uncertain defeats. Claim them all as victories"...yet then quietly, when ideally nobody is looking, make the needed corrections or changes to processes.

 

Here is to honest discussion about, rather then blind, knee-jerk defense of, a cruiseline!

The real challenge is that some HAL apologists will say anything in order to imply that the corporate entity called HAL is absolutely the best cruise line, with the best ships, best everything right down to the web site. I think it is somewhat of an affliction to feel that you have to defend and promote a corporate entity as you would your first born child. It seems so strange to me. Bottom line for us is that HAL is a vendor. No different than GM, Delta Airlines, Nordstrom, etc.

If this has been a problem for years, it's too bad that HAL chose not to fix it with the new website.

Even someone with the professional expertise and twenty years of experience as a software architect wouldn't presume to know the challenges involved in doing so to make such a claim as you posted.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.