Parents, please note -a serious issue- almost a big problem on Dawn 12/19

[ladymanor1]

MY goodness.....seemed to be an awful lot of problems that cruise involving teenagers (although I am of the opinion that teenagers mean 13 to 17, from 18 on up you are an adult).

My husband and I were considering taking the Dawn in August (we usually go at the end of Sept, when school is in session) to be able to join my sister in laws and their families.....I think we will stick to cruising when the "kids" are not as abundent :)

Sorry to hear that both families had such awful problems!!!

Debbie

[Kalos Orisate]

I just got off the 12/19 sailing of the Dawn and can confirm the bad behaviour of a fair-sized number of teenagers - lying on the floor blocking the hallway, coarse language, etc. They and their parents should have been warned once, then put ashore at the very next instance.

 

There was one particular boy with multiple studs and hardware in his face who had no business being on a ship. He and his friend (relative ?) made a point of dressing disrespectfully for dinner - loose, low torn/dirty pants, baseball/combat hat. Their trick was to come in after their parents (?) were seated, then rush past the staff and sit down at their parents' (?) table. At that point, the Dining Room staff could so nothing unless the staff was willing to cause a significant unpleasant disturbance and turf out the bums. I myself would have thrown the entire family out of the dining room.

 

On this cruise, staff was very lax about dining room dress standards, but ultimately it's all about irresponsible parenting...

[WDWfan13]

Exactly! What kind of parants would let their kids come into the dining room looking like that?

 

This has been an interesting thread for me. I will warn my boys about some of these issues as we cruise Easter week and I am sure there will be lots of kids onboard. They are not ones to make trouble, but I will warn them to stay away from those that will.

 

If they ever caused a problem, they would not be allowed out of our sight for the rest of the cruise. That's incentive enough for them to be angels!!!

[Barb Nahoumi]

Msescada,

 

I'm surprised that security had no way of finding the offending teens/young adults. When pax board ships they are photographed for security purposes. They should have been able to match videos with the security photos, find the miscreants, and remove them and their parents from the ship at the next port.

[greenie]

I am appalled by these happenings! What's up with the lack of respect in a number of teens? (I say a number--not all, I know there are many terrific kids out there). I am so very sorry to hear that some of you had these problems to contend with. It sounds like a problem that is going to start coming up more & more as more & more families go on cruises and lack of parental discipline comes to the fore. I was a kid of the 50s-60s. No WAY would I have misbehaved like that! I certainly hope the cruiselines get themselves up to snuff on procedure.

 

We are cruising from 5/1-5/8. PLEASE tell me this is a time when there won't be a lot of kids! :eek:

[bpear1600]

I am appalled by these happenings! What's up with the lack of respect in a number of teens? (I say a number--not all, I know there are many terrific kids out there). I am so very sorry to hear that some of you had these problems to contend with. It sounds like a problem that is going to start coming up more & more as more & more families go on cruises and lack of parental discipline comes to the fore. I was a kid of the 50s-60s. No WAY would I have misbehaved like that! I certainly hope the cruiselines get themselves up to snuff on procedure.

 

We are cruising from 5/1-5/8. PLEASE tell me this is a time when there won't be a lot of kids! :eek:

 

I'm not sure you can completely avoid it. We were on the Mariner OTS last January with maybe 20 young teens out of 3,500 passengers. These kids ran through the halls day and night, played in the elevators and, worst of all, threw handfuls of pebbles and stones down onto people a few decks below in the "mall" area. For those of you unfamiliar with Voyager class ships, one deck is wide open with shops and bars lining its' sides. It is several stories high and you can look down from balconies near the elevators. The kids would pick up handfuls of rocks from plantings, throw them down onto people and duck into the elevators. They were supposed to review tapes, blah, blah, blah but nothing ever came of it.

 

I never saw these kids with any adults but I can imagine what kind of parents they had.

[NoPiratesPlease]

CapeSteno:

I am AMAZED by your story! A 16-year old is legally liable as an adult in virtually every state in the Union. Your son was a victim of assault and battery. That's a crime, simple. If NCL (and I don't know the sea laws) refused to take REAL action then they may be inviolation of those laws, and CERTAINLY may be liable under the laws of the terminal port--in this case the US and New York. The fact that your son wasn't more seriously injured (and you don't know that he didn't have an eye injury) doesn't change the fact of NCL's liability. Plus there is the attacker's liability. You may want to look into this. Sure, a black eye heals, but an assault stays with you FOREVER! (when I was 17 I had my nose broken for no reason by a kid who was days away from turning 16--and avoided The Law. But his accomplice was my age and HE went to jail! Yet I remember this, over 30 years later, like it was yesterday.) NCL needs to be urged to take stronger actions, one way or another. ALL ships at sea have an obligation to protect passengers and crew, but again, I don't know the sea laws.

[Lobbylin]

Here we are in an environment, where the cruiseline probably knows more about it's passengers than your next door neighbour does - your passport number or ID details/home address/age/sex/profession/credit card number/travel agent/who you are travelling with..... and can even track you down to which cabin you are - and yet in some cases, they seem powerless/unwilling to act??

 

....as for people calling 18-21year olds "kids" or even "teenagers" (and yes, I know they are technically still classed as teenagers) that's a joke in itself. I accept that there is parental responsibility, but these "kids" are actually adults in their own right and should act and be treated as such.... even down to punishing them. Give the culprit a letter telling them they're off at the next port and post an identical one in their travelling party's cabin. Believe me, their travelling party will soon make themselves known to the powers that be.......

 

I THINK IT'S TIME TO START GETTING TOUGH WITH THESE UNDESIRABLE PEOPLE - if they can "afford" to cruise - they can afford to find their way home from the next port! (whether they have paid for the trip themselves or mummy and daddy has...)

 

None of us want harassment on vacation, and if these people are a bad influence on those good kids out there - then all the more reason to avoid temptation by removing these AWFUL people.

 

....All everyone wants is a to be able to have a good time in a nice environment, including me.

 

( I can't believe I feel so angry about this, but I do!)

[crzinvp]

This is extremely disturbing, and appalling. Its a very sad commentary on todays society, that many parents allow their teenagers to act in this manner. The Parents of the offending teenagers, should clearly be held accountable, for their actions. The Cruise Lines need to be uniform in enforcing strict codes of conduct. Clearly, they are not. It is equally disturbing that a standardized incident form is not used in reporting these occurences, and that NCL did not act in good faith to properly resolve it.

 

 

I hope that parents who permit their teenagers to run amok read these posts, maybe it will drill some sense into their concrete laden heads, that this behavior is unacceptable, inappropriate, and in some instances illegal.

 

I hope that your sons injuries heal properly, and that everything ultimately is resolved appropriately

[Elizabeth Gillian]

The posts on this thread have brought back an ugly memory. In 1995, my late parents took their first and only cruise(Mom passed away less than a year later). I had been the first in the family to cruise as a chaperone for a Senior trip in 1983 and gotten hooked on cruising. We (my husband, very young children, my parents, a widowed aunt and me) cruised on the Enchanted Isle out of New Orleans. There were many teenagers on their Senior Cruise on this ship. In all of my trips as a chaperone, I had never seen students acting up as badly as on this trip. Yet, the most unbelievable thing happened on this trip. I was walking back to our cabin pushing my 17 month old daughter in her stroller when several men began fighting in front of me. They were parents/chaperones of some of the Seniors who were fighting because one boy from one group said something insulting to a girl from another group. The next thing I remember was the female deputy captain and several security staff rushing past me and some very nice passenger helping me get my daughter away from the melee. Our upcoming cruise is in March on the Dream. I know that we're going during my children's Spring Break but I'm still looking forward to it. I will be a bit more protective with my own children but I know that they obey the rules and respect their elders. If not, they will know what will happen when they get home.LOL

[newmexicoNita]

Bad Penny,

 

My son and his friends are 15 and certainly don't think that they can do anything that they want. Sorry, but I hate stereotypes!

 

We are taking our 15 year old and one of his friends on a cruise this Easter. While I want them to have some freedom, they are not going to have the run of the ship with no supervision.

 

While I blame the teenagers that were causing this problem, I blame the parents as well. If you want to take a vacation and not have to worry about your kids and what they are doing, leave them home!

 

 

I agree with you, I too, hate stereotyping and believe that 90% of the kids today are just as responsible and well behaved as we were at their age: my grandaughters although very spoiled in my view are quite responsible and would never carry on like what we are hearing. the 5 or 10% of the kids who are given free raine and never held responsible are ruining it for the really great teens out there.

 

Why are there so many parents who can't or won't take control of their brats? These are the same parents who conplaint cause the kids program or teen programs don't keep their angels busy enough? What happened to the days when families went on vacations as a group and didn't expect activities to keep these kids satisfied? Now I will get off my high horse for today. NMNita

[crzinvp]

I believe that this is an issue that would be resolved in a Federal Court, based upon current maritime laws.

 

Be that all as it may, there are alot of well behaved, respectful, and decent teenagers, in our society that have respect for the law, proper manners, and structured guidance from their parents. Unfortunately, its the unsupervised, immature, "punks" , for the lack of a better word(please excuse this tone), that cause the stereotype, and take away from the decent youth in our society.

 

If NCL reads these boards, then in my view they as well as all of the other cruise lines should take heed and act more stringently, and properly when dealing with this. We are not talking about cursewords, or cutting lines, we are talking about criminal behavior, which in some states carry mandatory jail sentences. I would hope that the Cruise Lines would wake up, and again become more stringent. I shudder to think, if they became more lenient what would happen. Parents, and Guardians, certainly should wake up, but as my Grandmother said" if you are born round, no matter what you cant die square. You cant change some of the parenting, but more stringent policies can go a long way

[Kami's pal]

On this cruise, staff was very lax about dining room dress standards, but ultimately it's all about irresponsible parenting...Quote

 

Yes, the parents SHOULD be held responsible. However, unless the rest of the community is going to insist that authorities act, these incidents will continue to happen. I applaud the efforts of Capesteno. His son received his parents' support and guidance. He was counselled correctly that vigilante law is not in his or society's best interest. However, NCL won't act because it would cost them money, just as other corporations such as insurance companies (who often settle rather than fight the fraudulent claim). I think that in the case of the metal head teen being allowed to stay in the dining room, the other diners are considered by the teen to be just as powerless as his parents. In fact, perhaps if the diners had insisted that the child leave, and his parents too, to supervise him, those metal head's parents might have been relieved. He was blatantly challenging all the adults. Why didn't all the adults respond?

 

Sometimes ignoring stupidity is the correct response. But, you must really ignore it. Any sour looks, laughter, quiet complaints etc. are reinforcing his desperate need for attention. So if you are going to pay attention, make sure you are prepared to go the distance. That might have been to notify the maitre de, and/or the hotel manager that you will expect to be served AT NCL's EXPENSE, in an alternative restaurant. And speak loudly enough that other passengers will join you. Enlist other passengers. If you are the only one offended then you, not the actor, are out of step. All too often, bullies get away with their actions because of bystanders refusing to support the victims.

[salty dingo]

I read the posts before... I am not sure calling the FBI because of a black eye was such a good idea. Those guys have bigger fish to fry. I think the parents over-reacted. I am sure the ships staff were rolling their eyes over the incessant desire of the parents to exact more punishment.

 

Let the ship's security handle it. Did they confine the assaulting kid to the cabin for a period of time? Surely that would have been appropriate, and sufficient. Kids fight all the time and a black eye, absent any more serious offense, is nothing to get too worked up about. I know because I was a teen once and I dished out (and received) black eyes.

 

Parents need to keep in mind that they should be aware of where their children are and with whom they associate. On a ship, like being downtown in a city, the parents should keep watch over youngsters. The parents are responsible for the black eye, too!

[chatisfaction]

"All too often, bullies get away with their actions because of bystanders refusing to support the victims."

 

 

I agree, but it happens everywhere, lots of pepole don't want to deal with problems or bad news. Haven't you noticed even on the cruise boards people who report problems are often ignored or their story is doubted. It's like if we pretend not to see the problems they will solve themselves or go away, and no one thanks anyone for bringing the problems out in the open.

Comments like a ,cruise is what you make it, are used to blame the victim for having problems, rather than blaming those who cause the problems in the first place.

 

 

__________________

[crzinvp]

I do agree that this is a serious problem, and thank the original poster for bringing this to the forefront. I also do want to compliment him on how he emphasizsed to his son who was assaulted, that retribution and retaliation is not the answer. It only creates more problems.

In NY,on our Subways there are posters all over the place with a very simple, but in my view appropriate saying that can be used for this thread. "IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING". Please do not construe the use of capital letters as harsh or confrontational. I mean no offense. If we see this behavior going on, pick up the phone and call security, the purser, if need be, and practical, get hold of the CD or CAPTAIN, and if you have a camera take pictures of what you see to substantiate your claim. We need to be vigilant, educate our teens/young adults, and not be afraid to come foward.

We all look foward to boarding the ship, and enjoying ourselves. We want everyone to be safe, and have fun. I really do hope that NCL, reads these threads, as well as the parents of the individuals who are responsible for this despicable conduct, so they can see that this is very serious and we will not tolerate this anymore

[NoPiratesPlease]

[quote name='salty dingo']I read the posts before... I am not sure calling the FBI because of a black eye was such a good idea. Those guys have bigger fish to fry. I think the parents over-reacted. I am sure the ships staff were rolling their eyes over the incessant desire of the parents to exact more punishment.

Let the ship's security handle it. Did they confine the assaulting kid to the cabin for a period of time? Surely that would have been appropriate, and sufficient. Kids fight all the time and a black eye, absent any more serious offense, is nothing to get too worked up about. I know because I was a teen once and I dished out (and received) black eyes.

Parents need to keep in mind that they should be aware of where their children are and with whom they associate. On a ship, like being downtown in a city, the parents should keep watch over youngsters. The parents are responsible for the black eye, too![/QUOTE]

Well, when I was a teen, I was only the recipient of a pair of black eyes--and a broken nose, never the deliverer of such. Maybe YOU thought hitting someone (other than in self-defense) was OK, but I didn't and I still don't. And, at age 16, it is no longer kid stuff. It is now a crime and a violent one.
And should be treated as one. Teaching kids that assaulting each other is "no big deal" doesn't fit my definition of morality. It is only by luck, chance, and the incompetence of the hitter that the hittee was injured worse on the Dawn--and another "angel" was restraining the victim so he couldn't defend himself. This is gang behavior, thug behavior and it needs to be STOPPED HARD! not swept under the rug as you seem to suggest.

[salty dingo]

I said somewhere earlier in this thread that any misbehavior by kids except violence should get a stern warning and after that they should be escorted off the ship. I may have contradicted myself now. I think a agressive person who is dangerous should be put off the ship ASAP. But, a brawl in a disco over a girl may be a gray area unless the offender was doing other agressive stuff. Probably was a one-time idiotic act, and hopefully the ship security handled it. Guess one would have had to be there, see the security tapes, etc. to know the true story.

FYI I was usually the bullied one, never a bully. The only time I slugged a guy was in the high school football locker room, and it was after 2 solid months of verbal abuse, unbelievable. Coaches heard it but did nothing, so I had to. Sometimes kids just work things out the hard way. I know I was never bothered again by that kid after that :rolleyes: . Coaches never said a word to me because they knew they should have done something prior to that. Kids need good leadership, sometimes they don't get it and things can get out of hand.

[swmrgrl]

Our family was in the other villa on the Dawn 12/19 and had the older teen try to get past our room stewards into our villa at 9:30 pm while most of us were were at the Bollywood production and the youngest (16) was in her room. This was the second incident in a few days of young adolescents (if you prefer this instead of teens) being inappropriate to crew members on the 14th floor. My youngest daughter was witness to one of the incidents involving the same male "teen". As far as I'm concerned he should be denied future sailings with the Dawn for a period of time - maybe until he grows up.

When the room steward or butler calls for an elevator to leave the 14th floor, tweens who are riding the elevator can get up to the floor but can't get off as they are not given permission to leave the elevator. We also found 5-6 teens (14-16 yrs) hanging around the stairs on the 13th floor consistently and we had to bypass them to enter the door taking us to the 14th floor. There were times they couldn't be bothered to move out of the way for us to pass properly and almost always left their trash on the steps.

Our oldest son (at 19) decided to stay in the cabin on our last night rather than being out and about like he normally would. He found that there were too many tweens, mid teens, and older teens running around being ignorant and he didn't want to be associated with any problems that might arise. I later discovered from my son that it was a group of tweens consisting of girls who were making obscene phone calls from deck 7 around 5am. He was with a group of older friends that were part of a group that was usually in the Spinaker when they noticed the girls horsing around on the phones.

We also had tweens sitting on pool tables hooting and hollering, while whacking pingpong paddles on the table on deck 13 outside our windows at 10:30 pm one night. They also were running around deck 13 the same night a few hours later screaming and being a general nuisance. I must ask "where are the parents!!!"

We were fortunate that there wasn't more problems and security was able to deal with this quite quickly.

Needless to say we enjoyed our very first cruise and have booked 3 more cruises over the next year. In fact we are in the opposite villa to msescada for Dec 05 - they beat us booking the villa we were in this time.

[ontheopenseas]

swmrgrl-Did you find that there were many activities available to keep your teens busy? What type of things were offered? How did they enjoy the cruise experience overall? Do you think a lack of activities contributed at all to the problems that were going on on board or perhaps was there just a few bad apples ruining things for a lot of people around them?

[cinderella7]

When we were on the Dawn last year no one under the age of 21 was allowed in Spinnaker lounge after 11 or 12. I'm not positive whether it was 11 pm or 12, but I believe it was 11 pm. Anyone under 21 was asked to leave at that time. I know because I saw them being escorted out. It was difficult for the teens because after the deck parties were over everyone was told to continue the parties in Spinnaker's, but that teens were pretty much left flat since they couldn't go to Spinnaker's. It was a shame. That's when the boredom and resentment would set in. My suggestion to the Dawn would be to invite the older teens as a group to a specific party elsewhere on the ship. Another point is that the older teens and younger teens are grouped together. The 17 year olds really don't wish to mingle with the 13 year olds. Perhaps something can be done about that problem also. All this is coming from the mother of teenagers.

[crzinvp]

I agree, that there may not be teen appropriate activities at that time, and certainly NCL might want to solidfy their offerings in this area.

[Brian Raine]

My wife and I were on the Dawn sailing ex NY 09 Dec. We had occasion to talk to the Chief Security Officer , as we believed our luggage had been rifled on the quayside. He advised us that it was most probaly the NYPA and or US Customs had carried out a search, as is their want. He promised to bring this activity to their notice , to ensure in future any luggage tampered with bore a sticker/label to that effect.It was only his second week onboard the Dawn, having sailed with other cruise lines, and he was still finding his feet. I'm sure any complaints made to him or his staff would have been actioned immediately and I pity any "troublemakers "who tangle with his staff, who are GHURKAs(look that up on Google if you do not know of their reputation).
Out of control children are the bain of anyones life , but the cruise companies MUST clamp down on this type of behaviour. People are banned for "air rage" activities so why cannot the cruise companies pool information reference passengers who misbehave, whether they be parents or children, and ban them.

[crzinvp]

Brian,
I agree 200 %

[Sandycruise]

Hello! I feel so sad when I hear about the few rotten apples who made people's cruises so uncomfortable. I work with kids and teens and, while I love most of them, there have been a few who are just plain mean spirited and badly intended. Our culture does not necessarily support good, kind behavior so the bad spirited ones have fuel for their fire.

I have to say that we met one very sweet teenager on our Dawn cruise. He is the son of someone we met on our roll call. He is respectful, well mannerred, well spoken, and a good boy. He spent most of the cruise with his parents and seemed to love every minute of being with them. We were so pleased when we got a holiday card from the family with his picture on it, bringing back nice memories. I also recall another very well behaved teen (maybe pre-teen) who was the daughter of someone I met on a roll call for Carnival Pride. Maybe it is just Cruise Critic members who produce the teens who we all love to hang out with.

As for the others, some teens are just plain nuts these days. And I've worked on psych units and the step before reform school facilities to know it is a fact. If you feel a teen is threatening, take it seriously!! Report it! Right away! To those parents who feel this may spoil your trip if someone reports your kid, your trip will be spoiled a whole lot more if your teen seriously injures someone. Some of these "rotten apples" honestly have no sense of cause and effect as far as causing injury. They'll knock you down a flight of stairs on a bet sooner than look at you if that is the dare of the day. I am serious, if your instincts tell you there is a problem brewing, go with it! Make sure security is aware of who to watch. You would not believe the senseless violence that can come out of those few twisted kids who seem to ruin the reputations of all the good kids.

Also, if you see teens harassing someone else PLEASE report it! You would not believe the stories of ruined lives because of some bully. These rotten ones actually become enraged by a good, well mannered peer or one they percieve as weaker.

Sorry to be so negative, but you could literally be saving a life by asking security to keep an eye on these problems waiting to happen.

BUT!!!!!! Please be careful to avoid profiling based on how someone looks. Some of the most well mannered teens may not look it. Make sure you are reacting to the behaviors that you witness, not a preconcieved notion of how someone may behave because of how they look.

OK, sorry, I'll get off my soap box now. If I've offended the parent of an out -of-control teen who is suffering, I'm really sorry. I can't imagine your pain and I hope things go well for you.

If I've offended the parent of an out-of-control teen who does not wish to have other innocent people in the community kept safe because it may inconvenience them.....GOOD! The parents of those kids who were threatening other passengers should be ashamed of themselves.

Oops, sorry, I seem to have jumped right back up on the soap box.