Parents, please note -a serious issue- almost a big problem on Dawn 12/19

[catdancers]

In case it's of interest, there are some threads on the Princess boards about out-of-control kids on the Island Proncess during the holidays. Some are banding together and writing letters.

[maurick]

This behavior was awful. Sorry you family had to deal with this on vacation.

Just because any cruise line doesn't have a teen program they like, gives them no right to ruin the cruise for others. Just being on a ship is enough for my family. My husband and I could sit in a deck chair all week and watch the ocean go by.

These lughead teens need to entertain themselves. Maybe use their brain and read a good book. Thats if they can read.

I agree that Royal Caribbean is a good choice for a good team program.

[msescada]

[quote name='ChrisConnolly']I didn't get a chance to read the entire thread, but let me state some facts about the garden villa.. Both the elevator and the entrance are keycarded and always locked.. After you get past that safety check there are another set of doors that are always keycarded and locked. If someone wanted to "infiltrate" the garden villa then they would have a much better chance scaling the wall adjacent to the sports court.


Chris Connolly <== hit the wheel of fortune jackpot last night.[/QUOTE]


Yes, Chris, what you say is correct, but NOT complete. There are several ways for an "unauthorized" person to access Deck 14. The one we were concerned about was this: if those darlings who DID get up to 14 and who DID attempt to bully their way onto the floor had INSTEAD ridden up with my unsuspecting and otherwise-usually responsible son, then the could have forced him to give them access, taken the card from him and done whatever they liked to him and the villa.

That's what gives me chills. There are other ways of gaining access -- but I won't make them too explicit because I don't want to give anyone ideas. Oh yes, I am not exactly an amazon either. My son weighs nearly as much as I do, but it is far less likely that even large, strong teenagers could overpower me. Not impossible, just not likely (I have a brown belt in karate, as does my son, but I can reach farther.) It would be nice if we didn't have to walk around on guard while on the ship, but the reality is that we do.

The solution was that we rectified our mistake immediately: our son was no longer allowed to go anywhere on the ship by himself. Not because he wasn't responsible and well-behaved, but because we realized that we were too relaxed. We should have known better. But the lousy little you know whats who harrassed us and the abusive, battering persons who struck the other CC poster's son still need to be controlled, prosecuted and otherwise made as miserable as is appropriate.

[msescada]

[quote name='andreakul']Wow, these stories are very upsetting to me. We are sailing in a Villa on the Star soon with two kids. I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I will be very proactive to see that something like this doesn't happen. It's very sad that people have to behave like this!!!! Especially while on vacation. I feel the same way that others do! Those kids and their families should have been removed from the ship at the next port. That's what happened last year on RCCL when some boys became violent. All four families were thrown off the ship! That's the way it should be. If you can't be responsible for your children's behavior then who can.

I appreciate the "head's up" on the elevator and potential for these types of problems. Sorry this happened to you.

Andreakul[/QUOTE]

The next port was NYC, the last port....

[shoreguy]

[quote name='msescada']The next port was NYC, the last port....[/QUOTE]

And don't think those kids did not know it. I can hear the ring leader now, "Come on what are they going to do put us off the ship at the next port, big deal we will be home"

[MARIE D]

I agree that teens should'nt be stereotyped! There are some out there that have been raised right and remember that raising even during the rebellious era of their lives. Then there are those that have never REALLY been disciplined simply because it's just easier to let them do whatever they want and give them everything on a silver platter. It all boils down to lazy parents or parents that are more concerned with their career than with raising thier kids. Just easier to let the daycare do it or let them raise themselves, heaven forbid they let something as piddly as children interfer with the office! Sorry but kids that do not behave well in public is a major pet peeve with me. and YES I have 4 kids of my own, ages 6-8-15 & 18. They grew up knowing what the consequences of misbehaving in public were going to be, and no it was not a beating! They lost something that meant a lot to them for awhile. That's all it took. If they even begin to act up all it takes is 1 look from me or my husband to remind them. It's NOT that diffucult to control your kids! These parents that let their kids run wild and try to be the kids best friend and drinking buddy instead of a real parent to the kid will never know how awesome it feels to walk into a resturant, when people see all the kids in the group you can see them tense up and know they are thinking "there goes a peaceful lunch/dinner" , but then as the time goes by and people get ready to leave, they feel they need to stop by your table. They apologize for interupting your meal, but they just had to tell you they couldn't believe how well behaved our children are. That is an incredible feeling, and it tells me that I must doing something right! ( I seemed to have lost all the little instruction books that are supposed to be attached to the baby at birth, so I have to rely on instinct) LOL. No, I don't think i'm a perfect parent, I have made mistakes along the way, my kids aren't perfect either, but I do make sure that for every action there is a consequence. The teens in this thread definately need to face the consequences of thier actions, BUT what do you want to bet that they don't? Mommy and Daddy will fix everthing. After all you don't want to hurt the poor little darlings feelings! I guess you really can't blame the kids, they were just reacting to their raising. The parents should be punished too for either being too lazy to look out for the kid or just too stupid. Most teens are awesome to talk to. They are well behaved, and can give us "old fogeys" a new outlook on some things. I love having teens, but I also know that I can trust them to be respectful of others and of others property. But there's always at least one that has to give all the others a bad rep. I'm glad you didn't let it ruin your cruise. And by the way...thanks for the chance to VENT!

[fg19]

I too was there, at the spinnaker, i was with friends that i had met on the ship. I'm 39, married with 3 kids, my family had gone to sleep. I witnessed the first fight while enjoying a drink at the bar,your underage son was getting the worst of it. I got off my chair and escorted him outside, his little girlie friend followed, i just wanted everyone out and safe, i told him to get out and wash up, let's move on, we're suppose to be here for a good time.Your son stayed out for a few minutes then came running back in looking for more. At that time i noticed the other guy ( bigger too ) was going to pop him again, i tried to help asking the other guy to have a seat and i'll buy him a beer. It was too late " Big Guy " popped him, that's what happened, i was there.

[cod]

Just a few thoughts..

Don't blame the cruise line or their teen programs. None of the 'brats' described on this thread would have wanted anything to do with 'supervised' activities!!

We took our grand-daughter on the Sea a few years ago. She was 15 and had what she still refers to as the best vacation ever. The teen leaders (two young women) kept all the teens busy and happy. She had a curfew that she never out-stayed or complained about even though we wanted her back in our cabin earlier than some. I'm just saying that I think NCL had a very good program...better than the RCCL cruise we were on with a few of our grand kids a couple of years later.
Everyone has known kids like some of those depicted here...they are what will be keeping our prisons filled up in the future. We just have to be aware that they do exist along with the all the good kids out there who fortunately are the majority.

My husband never gets on these sites so I tell him about some of the stuff I read. His comment about this was 'they should have dropped them all off in Mexico'...I told him that was RCCL's solution and he thinks they got it right!

[karfest]

How did I ever survive without an organized program when we went on vacation? We rented a cabin at a lake "up north" and sat there for a week. My two brothers and I had to find our own entertainment. We met other kids and sometimes hung out with them but usually spent our time fishing or water-skiing. If we were really lucky, the campground had a pinball machine in the office!

I have a hard time feeling sorry for these kids who can't find anything to do but harass others while on a cruise. But then, maybe I should have some compassion because there is obviously something missing in their lives that they need to behave this way. it is unfortunate that other good kids have to get caught up in the mess.

[cali-croozer]

[quote name='karfest']How did I ever survive without an organized program when we went on vacation? We rented a cabin at a lake "up north" and sat there for a week. My two brothers and I had to find our own entertainment. We met other kids and sometimes hung out with them but usually spent our time fishing or water-skiing. If we were really lucky, the campground had a pinball machine in the office!

I have a hard time feeling sorry for these kids who can't find anything to do but harass others while on a cruise. But then, maybe I should have some compassion because there is obviously something missing in their lives that they need to behave this way. it is unfortunate that other good kids have to get caught up in the mess.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately, it seems that it wouldn't matter if there was a great teen program for them, because they wouldn't have taken part. As a parent of teens, I don't think that kids act differently on a cruise ship than they normally do at home. These trouble makers on the cruise are probably the same kids who are always getting in trouble at school, when they show up, and who don't have any discipline at home. My kids do partake in some of the organized activities, but, at other times, find normal things to do (swim, ping pong, etc.). There are also kids who think they are too cool for the programs, but still find appropriate things to keep them busy. The trouble makers on this cruise were just a bunch of punks and security should have done something about it. Awful for the other passengers to have to deal with this.

[NoPiratesPlease]

You are correct. It's not a situation of the teen program. It just takes a few bad kids, not a lot, and security being a bit lax, to create a situation. Again, let me reiterate: Most of the teens, the vast majority of them, on this cruise, were well-behaved. The problems came down to half a dozen, including the one ring-leader who was TOTALLY unsupervised by his parents and probably has been for most of his life. In all the attempts to access the GV, and in the obscene phone calls, his face appeared on the security video tapes. He's just lucky he didn't run into me trying to get to our villa. I'm twice MsEscada's size (but not even half as adorable!) and also a brown belt. It's amazing how one single snot-nosed SOB can cook up so much trouble, and I can just HEAR his parents saying "Not OUR angel!"

[Smooth Sailing]

Come On - Where are you all on the thread " Teen Fun On The Sun" - This is exactly what we all are talking about and I am being butchered on this Thread - can I get any support from anyone?

[kiberkid]

[color=black][QUOTE] It all boils down to lazy parents or parents that are more concerned with their career than with raising their kids.[/QUOTE] [/color]

[color=black]I understand what you are saying but I do disagree with you to a degree. We have friends that have 2 daughters. Both daughters were in all kinds of programs, their mom was a stay at home mom & was involved in every aspect of their lives. Both daughters were treated equally with discipline & love.[/color]


[color=black]Oldest daughter went to University, became a teacher, taught up North in remote areas so she could pay off her student loads, she then moved back to the city & sub-ed until she got a full time job. She is a respected member of the community & has done her parents proud.[/color]


[color=black]Youngest daughter barely finished high school. Got in with the wrong crowd. She was with one of her friends that was street racing & killed another friend. She got pregnant @ 18 & is now on assistance, expecting the world to support her & has no intentions of ever getting a job.[/color]

[color=black]So yes, I agree that a lot of our teenage problems are due to parents who are too busy to look after them, but there are cases when it just doesn't matter what a parent does, the child will turn out bad.[/color]

[Maral]

You can have great parents and Good kids.
You can have bad parents and Good kids!

You can have great parents and Bad kids!
You can have bad parents and Bad kids.

But:

I think we all can agree that the better the parent the more likely the child will be the child we would all admire. I think the " bad seed " exists but is less likely to be the reason for a problem child.

[xxcruiserxx]

I hate stereotypes too. If a 40 year old white male is involved in an armed robbery then no one says "oh those adult men!" So why group teens that way?

And I didn't realize until this thread that there was such an arrogance concerning the people who rent the Garden Villas. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. It shouldn't happen if you rent the Villa or if you rent room 401, inside cabin. The point is you were harrassed and it shouldn't happen to anyone. Even those of us pions who can't afford (or won't afford, as you put it) the more luxurious cabin. You seemed to make it a point over and over that people looked at you differently because you had means to afford the villa and you thought posters here would not side with you because of it. That's a shame and a very arrogant stance. Your wealth or tax bracket have little to do with my sympathy towards your situation. No one deserves that to happen to them, on a ship or anyplace else. It's horrendous and I hope those kids got what they deserved.

And to the person who said they knew they made the right decision by not cruising during school vacation....I'm sorry you feel that way but I understand your prejudice. I guess we all have them toward one group or another.

[NoPiratesPlease]

[quote name='xxcruiserxx']I hate stereotypes too. If a 40 year old white male is involved in an armed robbery then no one says "oh those adult men!" So why group teens that way?

And I didn't realize until this thread that there was such an arrogance concerning the people who rent the Garden Villas. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. It shouldn't happen if you rent the Villa or if you rent room 401, inside cabin. The point is you were harrassed and it shouldn't happen to anyone. Even those of us pions who can't afford (or won't afford, as you put it) the more luxurious cabin. You seemed to make it a point over and over that people looked at you differently because you had means to afford the villa and you thought posters here would not side with you because of it. That's a shame and a very arrogant stance. Your wealth or tax bracket have little to do with my sympathy towards your situation. No one deserves that to happen to them, on a ship or anyplace else. It's horrendous and I hope those kids got what they deserved.

And to the person who said they knew they made the right decision by not cruising during school vacation....I'm sorry you feel that way but I understand your prejudice. I guess we all have them toward one group or another.[/QUOTE]


XXCruiserXX: I think you missed the point. People HERE have not been that way--they have been concerned with addressing the problems of PROBLEM teenagers, not teens in general. How many times must I repeat that we were bothered by a very, very small group, led by one troubled and troublesome kid? How many times must I say that the VAST majority of the teens and kids on that cruise (and EVERY cruise we've been on) were well-behaved? How many times must I say it?

People here have NOT been snippy about it being the GV--they have been very nice.

MOST guests on board merely express curiosity about the GV. Some teens have tried to get up to see it, but have respected the adults and backed down. But when people see you slip that card in and press 14, sometimes a few rude people will make remarks.

With the GV comes serious privileges on board. You want a reservation in any restaurant for that night? You get it. You get the best table, and (usually) the kind of service you like (we like it fast, not leisurely). You always get seats for the shows if you want them, you get top priority on all tenders, and escorted on and off the ship at embarkation and dis-embarkation. One of the things you pay for with the GV is not to have to wait on lines--it's in the contract. I can tell you that not have the usual embarkation and dis-embarkation lines and waiting and struggle to find your bags is a real value. When we arrived, we were whisked through embarkation and in the GV before the other guests even began, and enjoying another few hours of vacation--and with less stress. But please understand: It's not a birthright, it's one of the things you are paying for--not just a big cabin, but less hassle. If it's not worth it to you pay extra to avoid that, that's your choice. MsEscada and I, just like everyone else, need our vacations and are lucky enough to be able to get those extras that help us relax more. It's our choice, but, while we expect the perks that we have paid for, we are not looking to throw it in other people's faces. When we get to a restaurant, we don't announce loudly "WE ARE IN THE GARDEN VILLA! GIVE US YOUR BEST TABLE!" Instead, there is a quiet, discreet signal to the Maitre d' (THEY know who's in the GV) that we are there. It's so nicely done that other guests are usually totally unaware of it. Even on airplanes it's less discreet: "We will now seat our first class passengers!"

One of the things NCL does SO well--far better than Cunard--is meld luxury cruising with the mass market cruising so nicely. Everything is very discreet--everything but one thing: How you access the GV. There IS a way that's more discreet, but that requires that you get off on the 13th floor and walk up a flight of steps. Things are done discreetly so as NOT to bother or disturb the other guests--it's their vacation too.

But whether or not you value those privileges and perks is up to you. We have friends who always take an inside cabin--anything more is a total waste of money. The cabin is for showering, sleeping and storing clothes, and, er, um, whatever...but that's it. It's not for reading or watching TV or drinking or ANYTHING--that's what the rest of the ship is for. Their values, their choice.

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='karfest']How did I ever survive without an organized program when we went on vacation? We rented a cabin at a lake "up north" and sat there for a week. My two brothers and I had to find our own entertainment. We met other kids and sometimes hung out with them but usually spent our time fishing or water-skiing. If we were really lucky, the campground had a pinball machine in the office!

I have a hard time feeling sorry for these kids who can't find anything to do but harass others while on a cruise. But then, maybe I should have some compassion because there is obviously something missing in their lives that they need to behave this way. it is unfortunate that other good kids have to get caught up in the mess.[/QUOTE]


As usual, I agree with you 110%. We grew up finding our own fun on vacations, so did our kids and now, as I have mentioned our grand kids. Sarah, who is 18 did love the kids program on the Sea when she was about 10 but her sister had fun with us and just laying around the pool. they did not have a teen program at that time or many teens on the ship, but she managed to meet the ones that were there. Since then neither of them have felt the need to be entertained. Of course kids will be kids, they should be active and yes, they will make a few bad decisions while growing up: sometimes they get a bit wild on ships or where ever, but normally it's the parents who have allowed them a bit too much freedom and not instilled good habits that cause what happened and what continues to happen. This is not to say every parent with bratty kids are bad parents. We all can sight cases where the kids have had the best of all worlds (I don't mean material things necessarily) and still had problems. We also know about those who have not even had one caring parent that end up becoming top community leaders, but these are exceptions. The saddest part, the parents who are not doing a good job don't even realize themselves. Now I will step off my soap box for the day. NMNita

[Host CMLA]

[quote name='NoPiratesPlease'] But please understand: It's not a birthright, it's one of the things you are paying for--not just a big cabin, but less hassle. If it's not worth it to you pay extra to avoid that, that's your choice. [/QUOTE] You are so right. And it's not just with cruising. In any type of service you can pay more for better service. That's how it is. I will gladly pay a little bit more if the perks of it are what I want. If I could afford the GV, you bet I'd pay for it in order to have the perks. People pay for express passes at Disneyland so they don't have to wait in line. People pay for several day museum passes in Paris so they can avoid lines. People pay thousands extra for business class and first class seats and the biggest benefits there are the seat and the meals. It's all about what's important to you. My sister once told me that she wouldn't pay for first class airfare even if they sat her in a lazyboy, fed her her favorite meal, showed her favorite movie on a personal DVD player, and massaged her feet throughout the flight. I, on the other hand, once paid $3,000 extra for a one way first class ticket from Rome to Denver because I had been on an exhaustive 17 day trip and I wanted the luxury for the trip home. It was foolish but at the time, I wanted it. So, yes, it does cost to get the perks but if you can find a way to pay for it, good for you and it doesn't mean you're better than anyone else.

[bUU]

Well-said, Cecilia!

[NoPiratesPlease]

Yes, Cecilia. Well said. We are in total agreement on this.

[MARIE D]

[quote name='kiberkid']

[color=black]I understand what you are saying but I do disagree with you to a degree. We have friends that have 2 daughters. Both daughters were in all kinds of programs, their mom was a stay at home mom & was involved in every aspect of their lives. Both daughters were treated equally with discipline & love.[/color]


[color=black]Oldest daughter went to University, became a teacher, taught up North in remote areas so she could pay off her student loads, she then moved back to the city & sub-ed until she got a full time job. She is a respected member of the community & has done her parents proud.[/color]


[color=black]Youngest daughter barely finished high school. Got in with the wrong crowd. She was with one of her friends that was street racing & killed another friend. She got pregnant @ 18 & is now on assistance, expecting the world to support her & has no intentions of ever getting a job.[/color]

[color=black]So yes, I agree that a lot of our teenage problems are due to parents who are too busy to look after them, but there are cases when it just doesn't matter what a parent does, the child will turn out bad.[/color][/QUOTE]
I understand what you're saying. Sometimes no matter what you do someone comes along with a more powerful influence and messes everthing up. Fortunately, (hopefully) a lot of kids that chose the wrong path very often remember what they were taught at home and even though it may take years, they do "straighten" up and become productive, responsible adults. Hopefully that will be the case with your friends daughter. My biggest question re: the teens on this cruise is: WHERE were the parents? and WHY couldn't the crew " find " them? I think the parent's response would be interesting to hear, at the very least!

[swmrgrl]

I see this thread is still going strong. Hmmm here's an idea....maybe the Dawn should dedicate one elevator just for the Villa's private use that requires the room card to be punched for the doors to open. This way nobody can get access to the floor that shouldn't be there. The situation on the Dec 19 has made us more aware to be more firm with people riding elevators to the 14th floor and making sure they stay on and go back down. We pay extra for the additional 'perks' that come with staying in the Villa and look forward to sailing in the newest Villa on the Jewel in August and again on the Dawn in December. It doesn't matter what room you are in on the ship, everyone should feel safe.

[andreakul]

Shoreguy just reported from the Dawn that there was a group of wasted teens on board that got into a fight apparently over a girl. They and their families were escorted off the ship in Tortolla. Way to go NCL- maybe with this type of action and expensive lesson this type of behavior will dissipate.
Let's hope so!!!


Andreakul

[ready4cruzn]

I could not agree with you more!!. We had the same thing with untamed teens last summer on the Dawn. The parents need to take note of where their kids are and what they are doing - They did not get on the ship by themselves.:eek:

[lovemylife]

It seems to me that if security would page the parent or responsible party of the little darlings, this could be taken care of quite quickly....A few words regarding your trip coming to an abrupt end if your "kids" continue to disturb the other passengers, and I bet these people would keep a better eye on their "kids" for the rest of the trip.
If not, and they find themselves stranded in Tortola, or Roatan, or any other port, they would have no one to blame but themselves, and their little darlings.