West Coast again getting less ships???

[kath00]

What's the difference between the Diamond and the Sapphire?

 

Thanks! Katherine

[Cruise Junky]

Wonder how long a return panama canal would be out of San Diego or LA? that would be nice to not have to do the flight home from Ft. Lauderdale.

[ironin]

BruceMuzz: Just want to say that I really appreciate your comments and hope there aren't too many days when you feel like your efforts are akin to spitting in the wind. Am sure I am not the only one who has learned a lot from you. Discovering that you've posted something on some board is always a highlight of my day. Thanks.

[Putterdude]

Wonder how long a return panama canal would be out of San Diego or LA? that would be nice to not have to do the flight home from Ft. Lauderdale.

 

Depending upon port calls I would think 10 days max if you did not enter the canal itself. I am thinking that most of west coaster are Mexico(ed) to death and during the winter would like to get down into the warmer weather of Central and South America.

[Hlitner]

There are several West Coast issues that impact on crusing. The only place to go in the winter, on shorter cruises, is Mexico and many Americans are now afraid to go to Mexico. As somebody already mentioned, California has a new law on low sulphur fuel which costs the cruise line extra money (and is a hassle). This past year west coast cruises had to offer very low rates and still could not fill the ships. Put is all together and you can see why CA is losing a lot of cruise business.

 

Hank

[RickEk]

What's the difference between the Diamond and the Sapphire?

 

Thanks! Katherine

 

Besides some interior decor differences... nothing... they are sister ships.

 

Wonder how long a return panama canal would be out of San Diego or LA? that would be nice to not have to do the flight home from Ft. Lauderdale.

 

Princess has been running 15-day "Grand Panama Canal" cruises with the Coral this year. These cruises are FLL to LA or vice versa. So you'd be looking at a 30-day b2b.

 

They used to run 19-day roundtrip partial transit Panama Canal cruises from LA on the old Regal Princess and last year on the Island Princess. Those have seem to have gone bye-bye...

[MHMarkL]

Katherine,

 

All the cruise lines have been listening - for years.

 

Now the passengers need to listen.

Cruises that sail out of San Francisco and up or down the California Coast can NEVER make any profit. They could in the good old days - but not anymore.

 

The California regulations for expensive low sulphur fuel, the ultra high port charges, and ridiculous and expensive tugboat requirements completely erase any hopes of ever making a profit on these itineraries - even if they do manage to fill the ship for EVERY cruise.

 

These facts may not be important to you - but they certainly are important to the shareholders of the cruise lines, who strangely expect a financial return on their investments. Are they being unreasonable??

 

Oddly, the Cruise Line Executives who plan these itineraries have a morbid fear that they will lose their jobs if they intentionally plan cruise itineraries that lose large amounts of money.

Are they being unreasonable??

 

So we have California cruisers who want the cruise lines to operate at a loss in order to allow the passengers the convenience to avoid flying to and from the ship.

Are you being unreasonable??

 

It's wonderful to dream about what could be, but sometimes we need to face reality and understand what is possible and what is not.

 

Bruce, you talk as though you can foresee the future. “Cruises that sail out of San Francisco and up or down the California Coast can NEVER make any profit.” The current environment of West Coast cruising may be a little more difficult but you talk as though it is as unrealistic as cruising to Mars. If enough cruisers are wanting to cruise the West Coast and be willing to pay for it, the cruise lines will respond and add a West Coast cruise. The reason several ships have left the West Coast is because they have gone to places where they can make more money like Australia and Europe. BTW those markets pay much higher fares than U.S. markets. Unfortunately to lure them back we will have to pay a little more. BTW there is no reason to use sarcasm and demeaning remarks to get your point across. You make good points, you just don’t make them in a respectful way.

[BruceMuzz]

sfpinc,

 

No dis-respect intended to anyone.

A little realism is sometimes needed when people start daydreaming about going on a cruise.

 

Yes, I can see the future - at least in this case.

If my ship sails out of San Francisco on a 7 day or 10 day cruise, the cost of operating the ship will be nearly double the cost of the same cruise sailing out of New York or Miami.

We could probably hit a break-even point (on costs) by adding an additional $500 per passenger to the cruise fare - if we could be assured that we could fill the ship EVERY cruise. But our market research - despite the daydreaming that is going on with Cruisecritic posters - tells us very clearly that we would NOT be able to regularly fill the ship - even without adding an extra $500 to the fares.

 

But let's assume for the sake of argument that we did decide raise fares, take a big risk, and try to sail out of San Francisco. The average passenger sailing from San Francisco spends less onboard than the average passenger sailing from Seattle, Vancouver, or New York. The onboard spending is where ALL the profit lies.

 

Why oh why would we go to all that trouble, taking serious risks on even filling the ship to cover costs, to attract a clientele that will net us a lower profit even if we defied all the odds and made it work?

 

Wouldn't it be a bit simpler to avoid all the financial risk, avoid all the monkeying with questionable marketing tactics, and just place the ships in ports that are already proven to generate more revenue at lower costs?

[yyzatcqq]

What's the difference between the Diamond and the Sapphire?

 

Thanks! Katherine

 

The other difference is that Diamond is getting her refit in Oct 2010, and Sapphire hasn't had hers yet. Maybe if the Diamond is staying in North America for fall 2011, the Sapphire will be going to Aussie (via Asia as the Diamond has done in both 2009 and 2010) and will get her refit in Singapore Oct 2011...

[Cruise Junky]

 

Princess has been running 15-day "Grand Panama Canal" cruises with the Coral this year. These cruises are FLL to LA or vice versa. So you'd be looking at a 30-day b2b.

 

 

I don't mean all the way to Lauderdale, just through the canal and back. Could probably do it in 15 - 16 days. It would be nice to have one or two a year.

[donna5]

So can we blame this on those people across the Pacific that like to pay a lot for a cruise:p

 

 

What's the difference between the Diamond and the Sapphire?

 

Thanks! Katherine

 

I don't like the show/lounge on the Diamond. Isn't that the one that is all chopped up and the different levels have railings that make it hard to see the show?

[donna5]

I agree, they should go out of San Diego or L.A. and go to some other Mexican port that they haven't done and down to central and south america. They could do some 10 or 12 day cruises.

[BosoxI]

Where were you when they tried to shove "operation self esteem" down our throats years back here in California... my daughter has trouble spelling to this day because they were more concerned about her self esteem than spelling words right and using proper grammer!! :cool:

 

PS... thanks for the English lesson... I think we could all use a refresher!

 

"Less" is for an amount; fewer is for a number, as fewer people would have health problems, if they weighed less. Fewer people will board ships on the West Coast because where are they going to go? Mexico, Alaska, Hawaii or a real biggie across the Pacific. Contrast that with the East Coast: the Caribbean, trans-Atlantic, Bermuda, NE/Canada. No wonder people flock to FLL or NYC.

[BaileyandBella]

 

I would think that if the cruise ship advertises that the cruise is the Pacific Coastal Wine Cruise

 

I would love a cruise like that. We live in So cal and HATE the heat, so we like to escape it. I always watch the repositioning Pacific coast cruises, but they are not at a time when my kids are out of school.

 

We would love more time in Seattle too, I could spend all day in Pike Street Market.

 

I don't think people have a problem going "north"....look at how many cruise to Alaska. :)

[BaileyandBella]

Seattle, Santa Barbara, etc. which are all places I have never been to.

 

 

You will love Santa Barbara and Seattle. Enjoy!

[BaileyandBella]

Quite true...

 

 

 

I didn't know the ships had to be BUILT in the U.S., too.

 

OK....I think we need to go and picket in Wash DC to change the laws. ;)

[BaileyandBella]

I love the Caribbean but just hate flying across the country to do it.

 

Plus the price of airfare!

 

We are a family of 4 and flew to Seattle (for Alaska cruises) the last 2 summers for $225 each.

 

Every time I look at airfare for Florida, it's usually $400 or more! That just kills the deal for us.

[COMBOY]

I just read an article on US News. The author quoted Princess President as saying the Sea Princess will be in Australia in 2011 and the Sapphire will also be there in 2011! :eek::eek::eek:

 

Where does that leave us poor West Coasters????????

 

There's nothing in the article that suggest that Princess or any cruise line is completely abandoning the West coast and Mexico. However, it's not uncommon for cruise lines to move ships from region to region in areas that command higher demand and tariffs. It looks like Sapphire will be in Mexico till May 2011, probably summer in Alaska and then off to Australian in late 2011. Princess could then move another ship within it's fleet into Mexico for the Fall Mexico 2011 sailings....only speculation at this point as no cruise line has any itineraries posted past summer 2011. I do expect Mariner of the Seas as well as Carnival Splendor and a HAL ship to remain on the west coast for sometime. Many folks on the west coast simply don't like to fly and the Mexico sailings are just very convenient for them. So I won't worry at the point unless something major hits the area and people stop going to Mexico.

[Putterdude]

Plus the price of airfare!

 

We are a family of 4 and flew to Seattle (for Alaska cruises) the last 2 summers for $225 each.

 

Every time I look at airfare for Florida, it's usually $400 or more! That just kills the deal for us.

 

I agree, I know that I will be on the first winter month cruise...Princess or otherwise, that sails out of San Pedro, Long Beach, or San Diego that is 14 or 15 days into warmer weather that does spend it is time making 3 or 4 stops in Mexico. We winter here in AZ and we are an easy 4 hr drive to one of the above ports.

[BruceMuzz]

I didn't know the ships had to be BUILT in the U.S., too.

 

OK....I think we need to go and picket in Wash DC to change the laws. ;)

 

Wait. It gets better.

The ship must also hire primarily US Citizens as crew, and must pay them under US Wage guidelines. They can't have Americans working 13 hours a day like the international ships, so they must also hire additional crew. All of that increases labor cost by around 500%.

 

And since most Americans will not work 7 days a week for 10 months straight like the international crew, the cruise line must give shorter contracts and hire a complete additional crew. That means twice as many air tickets to get the crews home and back to the ship again.

And since America has Unemployment Insurance, the cruise line cannot afford to have the crew claiming it when they are at home on holiday. So the cruise line must pay all crew every month, even if they are on holiday.

This doubles labor cost again.

 

 

Guess what happens to your cruise fares?

If the fares don't go up, then the cruise line must make major cutbacks in goods and services to remain profitable and competitive with the other lines.

You might want to skip that trip to Washingon.

[DrivesLikeMario]

I doubt Princess will do longer Mex. Riv. cruises.

 

HAL and RCI have been doing some 10 night Mex. Riv./Sea of Cortez cruises and are having a hard time filling them. Prices, especially with RCI, have been discounted quite a bit.

[MHMarkL]

sfpinc,

 

No dis-respect intended to anyone.

A little realism is sometimes needed when people start daydreaming about going on a cruise.

 

Yes, I can see the future - at least in this case.

If my ship sails out of San Francisco on a 7 day or 10 day cruise, the cost of operating the ship will be nearly double the cost of the same cruise sailing out of New York or Miami.

We could probably hit a break-even point (on costs) by adding an additional $500 per passenger to the cruise fare - if we could be assured that we could fill the ship EVERY cruise. But our market research - despite the daydreaming that is going on with Cruisecritic posters - tells us very clearly that we would NOT be able to regularly fill the ship - even without adding an extra $500 to the fares.

 

But let's assume for the sake of argument that we did decide raise fares, take a big risk, and try to sail out of San Francisco. The average passenger sailing from San Francisco spends less onboard than the average passenger sailing from Seattle, Vancouver, or New York. The onboard spending is where ALL the profit lies.

 

Why oh why would we go to all that trouble, taking serious risks on even filling the ship to cover costs, to attract a clientele that will net us a lower profit even if we defied all the odds and made it work?

 

Wouldn't it be a bit simpler to avoid all the financial risk, avoid all the monkeying with questionable marketing tactics, and just place the ships in ports that are already proven to generate more revenue at lower costs?

 

Bruce,

 

Are you in the cruise marketing research business? Sounds like you have a lot of inside information in terms of marketing research.

[quincytoo]

It looks like the Sapphire has a shortened season in the Mexican Riviera this year and will start doing Hawaii by February 2011. I like the opportunity to book a last minute cruise to the Mexican Riviera as it is pretty easy for me. I live about 45 minutes from the port and prefer Princess over RCCL. I guess if I want to cruise when the Sapphire is not here I will try the Mariner. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'm wondering if Princess was having to discount too many cruises on the Sapphire to fill the ship?

 

Same here, we are looking at the Marnier for Oct 2010 since Princess has no cruises to Mex Riv for that month. I would like to cruise to Hawai but it is so much more money.

 

We booked our last SP cruise in dec and cruised three weeks later and got a great deal on a BB so I wonder too!

[kath00]

We just got off the Mariner and she was a beautiful ship. I have not sailed the Sapphire (scheduled for December, hurraaaaay). But don't think that it would be "settling" to sail the Mariner. :)

 

Katherine

[RickEk]

I doubt Princess will do longer Mex. Riv. cruises.

 

HAL and RCI have been doing some 10 night Mex. Riv./Sea of Cortez cruises and are having a hard time filling them. Prices, especially with RCI, have been discounted quite a bit.

 

As someone just posted, the Sapphire is doing a 10-day Mexican Riviera voyage in January 2011 that includes Acapulco and Ixtapa.

 

I don't mean all the way to Lauderdale, just through the canal and back. Could probably do it in 15 - 16 days. It would be nice to have one or two a year.

 

As I mentioned in the part that you didn't quote, Princess used to run 19-day Panama Canal roundtrip voyages from Los Angeles. Regal Princess used to do the run and then Island Princess did them. I don't know why they don't do them anymore... probably the yields were low...