Would you like some cheese with your WHINE?

[lovemylab]

Interesting, but another poster has stated that there are polices that exist overseas that WOULD cover the event. I like to see those..

 

And I never said that all polices are excluding it. My point is simple...that you are coming on here (full of attitude) and preaching to people that they should have had insurance. I was simply pointing out that not all insurance policies are covering this, therefore, even the person who had insurance may not be covered.

 

You asked for proof...I provided it.

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, insurance policies are full of clauses, conditions and exclusions. Insurance companies hate paying claims. Insurance policies that allow a cancellation for any reason don't exist all around the world. And even those that do have that clause, also have conditions attatched (as other posters have pointed out).

 

I see nothing wrong with showing some sympathy towards those who are affected by this.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

Interesting, but another poster has stated that there are polices that exist overseas that WOULD cover the event. I like to see those.

 

How about you stop yelling and calm down. It is a message board. No need to get all wired up over someone you don't even know. Maybe then, I will respond to your post.

 

Liars? That word was never posted by me. I asked you to post links which you haven't so what you say here is suspect at best.

 

 

You said you didnt believe me when I said it was in the news people not getting their insurance to pay up, there are people here on CC who said their insurance have said this so are you not believing them either? And someone has posted a news article.

[Grandiva]

How about you stop yelling and calm down. It is a message board. No need to get all wired up over someone you don't even know. Maybe then, I will respond to your post.

 

Don't care if you respond or not. Believe me, wired up I'm not. It continues to amaze me the attitudes and treatment people have towards others. I don't understand it. True don't know you, just know how you think. I was not yelling. I was putting great emphasis on how educated you claim to be. Perhaps you should add some compassion to your educated life.

[Yo Eleven]

You asked for proof...I provided it.

Thanks a million. You are a good egg.

[The_Baron]

Is there a site that lists the guidelines of payout on an UK policy? I really would like to read it.

 

No, an organisation called the Association of British Insurers provides guidelines, and there are certain regulations that come from the Financial Services Authority, but the actual exclusions and conditions that are applied are up to the individual insurer, the guidelines themselves aren't generally public knowledge.

 

Except for the one I mentioned previously, because that's a compulsory principle of insurance that's used by EVERY general insurer in the UK intended to prevent people claiming twice for the same thing from different places, which in short, equates to insurance fraud.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

I am also reading that if one booked their air and cruise travel with RCI that they would be getting a 100 percent credit for their cruise. Is this correct?

 

Why wouldn't someone in the UK book it such a way? I know I would have.

 

Is it because you could save a few bucks booking air travel on your own rather than with the cruiseline?

 

 

Oh really!!:rolleyes: All you hear on CC is Dont book with the cruise company, book your own flights it saves you a few hundred not a few bucks, even seasoned cruisers say this, now you grasping at straws :rolleyes:

And for the record I do book with the cruiseline, mainly because I cannot be bothered to source the flights.

[The_Baron]

For interest, this comes from the ABI regarding this situation.

In fairness, I doubt anyone could be blamed for not making sure they had Volcano cover beforehand, it's hardly precedented.

 

“While a volcanic eruption is not a specific insured event covered in insurance policies, some cover for delay and travel abandonment may be available, depending on the level of cover purchased by the policyholder and the terms and conditions. This will vary as there is no standard travel insurance policy. Payment for delay, whether outward or return, is usually a fixed amount per delayed period up to a maximum figure, not an open-ended sum.

 

“It is especially important to talk to your insurer to determine the types of expenses which can be covered before you incur them".

 

For the uninitiated, this essentially means that insurance policies sold in the UK (to which this refers) do NOT cover volcanos, but, you should check with your insurer to see if they will cover it, before you incur the expense as they may be able to cover. The kety word there being MAY.

 

People are phoning their travel insurers, and being told that there is no cover, mainly due to it being covered, under EU legislation, by the airlines, and due to them trying to claim for more than the policies covered.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

How about you stop yelling and calm down. It is a message board. No need to get all wired up over someone you don't even know. Maybe then, I will respond to your post.

 

Don't care if you respond or not. Believe me, wired up I'm not. It continues to amaze me the attitudes and treatment people have towards others. I don't understand it. True don't know you, just know how you think. I was not yelling. I was putting great emphasis on how educated you claim to be. Perhaps you should add some compassion to your educated life.

 

Compassion??

 

I doubt that is possible by the sound of things.

[Grandiva]

Let's leave our so called President out of this conversation. I just had lunch and would like to keep it down.:rolleyes:

 

Keep your lunch down :). I was responding to the people who have stated the way things are in their country. Wonderful that the airlines are responsible for you in the UK (?) while you travel with them, at your expense, whereas here the airlines charge you for a pillow. The examples of how things are united and really "for the people" in other countries is a concept we don't undestand. I used the healthcare to say we can't even agree to somehow give all americans decent healthcare. And point out the fact that we are not a people of compassion.

[Yo Eleven]

No, an organisation called the Association of British Insurers provides guidelines, and there are certain regulations that come from the Financial Services Authority, but the actual exclusions and conditions that are applied are up to the individual insurer, the guidelines themselves aren't generally public knowledge.

 

Except for the one I mentioned previously, because that's a compulsory principle of insurance that's used by EVERY general insurer in the UK intended to prevent people claiming twice for the same thing from different places, which in short, equates to insurance fraud.

Wow! So how can a traveler decide if it is worth it to purchase travel insurance? They have to go on faith by what they are told by the insurance company?

For interest, this comes from the ABI regarding this situation.

In fairness, I doubt anyone could be blamed for not making sure they had Volcano cover beforehand, it's hardly precedented.

 

“While a volcanic eruption is not a specific insured event covered in insurance policies, some cover for delay and travel abandonment may be available, depending on the level of cover purchased by the policyholder and the terms and conditions. This will vary as there is no standard travel insurance policy. Payment for delay, whether outward or return, is usually a fixed amount per delayed period up to a maximum figure, not an open-ended sum.

 

“It is especially important to talk to your insurer to determine the types of expenses which can be covered before you incur them".

 

For the uninitiated, this essentially means that insurance policies sold in the UK (to which this refers) do NOT cover volcanos, but, you should check with your insurer to see if they will cover it, before you incur the expense as they may be able to cover. The kety word there being MAY.

 

People are phoning their travel insurers, and being told that there is no cover, mainly due to it being covered, under EU legislation, by the airlines, and due to them trying to claim for more than the policies covered.

May is such a horrible word to use in a contract. Sounds to me the best bet would have been to book airline fare with the cruiseline after seeing there is no such thing as cancel for any reason. Very interesting.

 

But in the end, should the cruiseline be blamed for not refunding the cruisefare? The ship still sailed, right?

[The_Baron]

Wow! So how can a traveler decide if it is worth it to purchase travel insurance? They have to go on faith by what they are told by the insurance company?

 

May is such a horrible word to use in a contract. Sounds to me the best bet would have been to book airline fare with the cruiseline after seeing there is no such thing as cancel for any reason. Very interesting.

 

But in the end, should the cruiseline be blamed for not refunding the cruisefare? The ship still sailed, right?

 

"May" isn't used in the contracts themselves, just in the ABI's comments about this situation.

and in answer to your other question, generally, insurers make their policy wordings available so people can see what is and isn't covered, before buying without taking the word of someone selling it.

 

The thing is, with an unprecedented event like we're talking about, who could be expected to look for that cover? They will from now on, but up until this, whoever heard of a Volcano causing such chaos to air travel in europe?

[The_Baron]

But in the end, should the cruiseline be blamed for not refunding the cruisefare? The ship still sailed, right?

 

No, they shouldn't be blamed, unless they provided the air travel. In which case, within the EU they are obliged to front up some costs (well, technically the airline are, but it would go through the cruise line as they took payment)

[Yo Eleven]

"May" isn't used in the contracts themselves, just in the ABI's comments about this situation.

and in answer to your other question, generally, insurers make their policy wordings available so people can see what is and isn't covered, before buying without taking the word of someone selling it.

 

The thing is, with an unprecedented event like we're talking about, who could be expected to look for that cover? They will from now on, but up until this, whoever heard of a Volcano causing such chaos to air travel in europe?

Let me ask you this. Compared to what you can get in the US, are UK travel policies much lower in value and perhaps maybe even a waste of money to get? Why get a travel plan if you have to wonder if you are even going to be protected? Sounds like a crap shoot to me.

[snownyet]

ohhh dear this is getting heated.

as I said earlier my insurance wont pay out as its an act of god. Fortunately I only phoned for advice IF we were going to be affected and it looks like were going to be ok,

.

I may be wrong but i dont think theres anything in UK insurances that allows you to cancel for any reason. Here we have whats called fully comprehensive insurance which covers all eventuallities. but unfortunately volcanic ash isnt covered .

What I think is unfair is that Some insurance companies are paying out and others are not. My company say the underwriters will not pay out and thats that. end of story Im talking about one of the leading companies here in the UK who charge a great deal of money for insurance ( which you have to have before you can go on holiday all Uk travel agents insist on this at time of booking )but unfortunately they seem to never want to pay out.

My heart aches for all the people who have or are going to loose a great deal of money. I know we are in our late 60s and certainly couldnt afford to loose such a lot of money and certainly as you think you are fully covered by your insurance .

I know in future I will only cruise from the UK and Im going to change my insurance company.

 

heres an angle on the act of god reason for failure to cover the lost expenses...Dispute the existence of God!!! Folks have been using that angle for other issues forever.

[anastasia1]

Wow! Sounds to me the best bet would have been to book airline fare with the cruiseline after seeing there is no such thing as cancel for any reason. Very interesting.

 

But in the end, should the cruiseline be blamed for not refunding the cruisefare? The ship still sailed, right?

 

 

Hi- you cant book air and cruise combined for many RCI trips from the UK. The Uk is quite a big country (ok teeny compared to the USA!). RCI only fly from 3 (? i think) airports. To get their air travel (if available) I would have to travel something like the distance from Boston to New York first. I could of course fly from the airport 10 minutes from my house to their connection or I could fly direct to most countries from my home airport.

 

There are a number of mixed and complicated issues in this and the other thread.

 

1. Insurers are refusing to pay even when people had top of the range policies. The best UK policies seem to be less comprehensive and differ from US policies.

 

2. EU airlines and Uk tour package providers (including RCI as they sell packages in the UK) have a legal obligation to accomodate and feed stranded passengers (already abroad) and to get them home. Many providers and airlines have done this at no cost and have put all of the arrangements in place. Some including RCI have not- they have left passengers to fend for themselves. They will have to refund the receipted costs the passengers have incuurred but some passengers can see other tour operators providing a much more hands on service. It seems that RCI may have told some passengers that they had no legal obligation which was incorrect.

 

3. Some companies have made good will gestures and refunded costs where passengers were stranded and unable to get to a holiday. This would not be covered by the airline (and as the client has not left the UK the airline has no obligation to care for them) and usually would be covered biy insurance but in this case insurers are refusing to pay. RCI have not made that goodwill gesture- it is entirely up to them. I dont blame them for that.

[Aquahound]

heres an angle on the act of god reason for failure to cover the lost expenses...Dispute the existence of God!!! Folks have been using that angle for other issues forever.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but I have a feeling "act of God" comes with a definition in the contract.

[jbond]

I found nothing in the news on a websearch about UK insurance being denied. If you are going to make a point you will need to show me. Without this, your retorts do not convince me of anything.

According to today's Daily Mail, Ryanair, BMI, Monarch and Majesty Tours have declared that they are not responsible for any stranded passengers due to the volcano. EU law apparently requires that carriers will provide for passengers that are stranded due to cancelled flights, but I'm not sure what impact that has on RCI as they are not an EU based organisation. The cancelled flights is for any reason, no restrictions. Here in the US, it is limited to mechanical failure or other airline responsible causes. Weather is not a reason. According to a previous post, anastasia1, US and European airlines have different obligations under the EU ruling. Ryanair have stated that they will fight any effort to force compensation in the courts. They claim that it was the governments that screwed up by calling an unwarranted total shutdown of airspace and if any compensation is due, the respective governments should be liable. Ryanair is a very successful and aggressive company. Should be interesting.

[anastasia1]

I was thinking the same thing, but I have a feeling "act of God" comes with a definition in the contract.

 

 

Apparently it is not being denied due to act of god as this does not exist in UK (or EU?) law.

 

It is being denied because the contract says it does not specifically cover volcanoes. It does not exclude them either- they are simply not mentioned. Others are refusing to pay because the airports were closed by a central agency and that also is excluded from some policies.

 

Some insurers are paying out as adverse weather is covered (it was an ash cloud). Others are saying it is not weather.

[jbond]

Others are refusing to pay because the airports were closed by a central agency and that also is excluded from some policies.

Ryanair and BMI to name two.

[anastasia1]

Ryanair and BMI to name two.

 

 

Ryanair have just done press release saying that they will pay- claims with receipts only. They say they have not bowed to government pressure but to demmands from their passengers.

[jbond]

They say they have not bowed to government pressure but to demmands from their passengers.

That's a new approach for Ryanair.:D

[anastasia1]

That's a new approach for Ryanair.:D

 

My friend is actually stuck abroad. Flights with Ryanair- accomodation with Thomas Cook. Was told last week by insurance that ryanair would pay (and it will be 10 days for a family of 4 all inclusive) or if they dont the insurance will cover it.

 

She says in her hotel it just depends on who you are booked with- she reckons that Thompson have been the most impressive. good communication- rep in lobby - no upfront costs and flew them all out within 24 hours of air opening up.

[Shak]

I won't claim to be as smart as some on this thread but I have made a claim when our ship didn't dock as scheduled due to a medical emergency. What I found out from that claim is travel insurance is not as cut and dry as some seem to think. To make a long story short some insurance companies covered those having to make new air arrangements and some didn't. The policy for those that didn't cover the air stated they would cover that expense stated they would cover the air if the delays were caused by you or a family member but not a delay caused by someone else. They all picked up the tab for hotels and meals though.

 

I guess what I am trying to point out it will all come down to what is in their travel insurance policies of what is covered and how much. There seems to be a lot of pressure on the travel insurance industry to cover this issue so hopefully that will be what happens.

 

Peter Greenberg posted an informative article on the volcano travel insurance issues.

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2010/04/20/travel-insurance-coverage-limits-the-volcano-in-iceland/

 

Shak

[Yo Eleven]

Hi- you cant book air and cruise combined for many RCI trips from the UK. The Uk is quite a big country (ok teeny compared to the USA!). RCI only fly from 3 (? i think) airports. To get their air travel (if available) I would have to travel something like the distance from Boston to New York first. I could of course fly from the airport 10 minutes from my house to their connection or I could fly direct to most countries from my home airport.

 

There are a number of mixed and complicated issues in this and the other thread.

 

1. Insurers are refusing to pay even when people had top of the range policies. The best UK policies seem to be less comprehensive and differ from US policies.

 

2. EU airlines and Uk tour package providers (including RCI as they sell packages in the UK) have a legal obligation to accomodate and feed stranded passengers (already abroad) and to get them home. Many providers and airlines have done this at no cost and have put all of the arrangements in place. Some including RCI have not- they have left passengers to fend for themselves. They will have to refund the receipted costs the passengers have incuurred but some passengers can see other tour operators providing a much more hands on service. It seems that RCI may have told some passengers that they had no legal obligation which was incorrect.

 

3. Some companies have made good will gestures and refunded costs where passengers were stranded and unable to get to a holiday. This would not be covered by the airline (and as the client has not left the UK the airline has no obligation to care for them) and usually would be covered biy insurance but in this case insurers are refusing to pay. RCI have not made that goodwill gesture- it is entirely up to them. I dont blame them for that.

1.Top notch policies NOT paying? Sounds to me these UK policies are borderline scams, maybe even full scams. It is so easy for them to say don't book a trip without it, you may need it. But when you need it, they are not there for ya. Sounds like the insurance commissioner needs to get involved, if there is one.

 

2. Well at least they are getting their air travel refunded plus money for incidentals. Better than nothing.

 

3. Interesting that some are making goodwill gestures. But as for the others including RCI does it benefit by smearing a cruiseline's good name all over an online forum when they have done no wrong?

[jbond]

Interesting that some are making goodwill gestures. But as for the others including RCI does it benefit by smearing a cruiseline's good name all over an online forum when they have done no wrong?

It's never stopped them in the past.