Is RCCL Abandoning The US Market For Europe?

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

Throughout my life, I was always taught that you go to Florida and the Caribbean in the winter and you go to Europe in the summer.

 

That appears to be RCCL's thinking as well. In any case, how can you expect to add two mega-ships to Florida that, when combined, hold about 12,000 passengers, and not deploy your older capacity somewhere else?

 

The press releases I read said that RCCL was going to deploy half their ships to Europe for the summer season. That seems reasonable to me.

 

Costa (owned by Carnival) and MSC (privately owned) have become huge in the European market. How can RCCL ignore this?

 

RCCL now has extensive operations in Madrid and Barcelona. They seem to be doing quite well here.

 

When we purchase a cruise here in Spain, the tips are pre-paid as part of our fare. I don't see the staff members losing their tips.

 

Homeport cruising has become quite popular in the United States because of the hassles and expense of flying. Well, the same thing holds true here. When we take our summer vacations here in Europe, many of us don't want to fly half way across the world to take a 7 or 12 day cruise.

 

At least RCCL is still keeping its two state-of-the-art flagships in Florida. I would say that NCL is even betting more on the European market by sending the Epic to Barcelona and keeping the Jade and Sun in Europe as well.

 

As far as the U.S. being the most generous country -- That just isn't true. According to the latest figures released by the United Nations, the U.S. happens to be one of the least generous countries as far as aid is concerned.

 

The statistics are repeated below and read from most generous country to least generous country. There are other statistical studies which measure different factors, but the U.S. usually comes out near the bottom in these other studies as well. U.S. donations appear to be massive due to the vast size and population of the country itself. However, as a percentage of the size of its economy, U.S. donations always rank close to the bottom of the scale.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Norway

Luxembourg

Denmark

Sweden

Netherlands

Portugal

France

Belgium

Switzerland

Ireland

United Kingdom

Finland

Germany

Canada, Spain, Australia (tied at same level of aid)

Austria, New Zealand, Greece (tied at same level of aid)

Japan

United States

Italy

[Cruising89143]

This is why RCI is moving more and more ships to Europe.

 

http://www.cruisebusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1024:european-cruise-market-grew-12-to-495-million-passengers-2009&catid=48:top-headlines-category&Itemid=116

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news-articles/67-articles/4198-summer-2010-europe-growth-market.html

 

Growth for the US is flat. Any smart company is going to fish where the fish are.

[FLSteve11]

I agree that most of the original post was a rant and somewhat on the rude side when talking about Europeans and tipping.

 

 

There is one fact that I agree with- the lack of ships in the States next summer. I am a TA and have had most of my regular summer cruise clients book Carnival for next summer rather than Royal as they usually do. Reason being: Oasis and Allure are their only options out of S. Florida and it is too expensive to pay for the whole family to go on either of those two ships. Carnival has many S. Florida options next summer that are affordable and they are leaning toward those ships even though a lot of them are Loyal to Royal.

 

I loved the Oasis, had the time of my life, but I realize not everyone can afford it (especially larger families). So I hope they are not shooting themselves in the foot with their decisions.

 

I had noticed that as well. I live in south florida, and while thinking about what cruise we will do next year, noticed that was the only options for RCCL for 7-day cruises (and no option for longer ones). Majesty is still doing the 3-4 days cruises as well, but for the summer, when families have the time to cruise, you want to do a longer one. We're taking my parents on a cruise for their anniversary, and we do RCCL about half the time, as it's our favorite line, but it's just too expensive at this point for us to book anything out of here for so many people on Oasis & Allure when carnival is 2/3 to 1/2 the price.

[Modena]

I think we should all embrace the fact that RCI are giving people more options of places to see throughout the world. Like in any business, if you want to progress you can't keep doing the same things all the time, you have to diverse to keep things fresh and to keep the business going.

 

Please remember that this is a cruise website - not a platform for different nationalities to throw insults at each other.

 

I am really excited that a RCI ship is visiting my home city next year and that it will be a chance for people to see it and realise what a wonderful city it is and I am so pleased that we will be receiving visitors from all over the world.

 

I want to advise people of what they will be able to do and see and give as much information as I can to ensure people will have a good time, but I feel that I can't mention my city on this forum for fear of more insulting posts from people who just want to offend as this seems to be the trend at the moment.

 

The reason why I joined Cruise Critic was that I love cruising and wanted to share my experiences with others and try to help anyone who has a query and vice-versa - as I guess was the reason why most members joined - but others just use this forum to vent their anger at people.

[Maraprince]

I had noticed that as well. I live in south florida, and while thinking about what cruise we will do next year, noticed that was the only options for RCCL for 7-day cruises (and no option for longer ones). Majesty is still doing the 3-4 days cruises as well, but for the summer, when families have the time to cruise, you want to do a longer one. We're taking my parents on a cruise for their anniversary, and we do RCCL about half the time, as it's our favorite line, but it's just too expensive at this point for us to book anything out of here for so many people on Oasis & Allure when carnival is 2/3 to 1/2 the price.

 

 

The RCCL cruises originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans -- not for Americans who have to pay to fly across the ocean adding additional costs. This is RCCL's version of homeports for Europe.

 

By placing the Oasis and Allure out of Florida, RCCL feels that they can accommodate the same number of passengers with fewer ships. However, as it was pointed out, these ships are not a good option for larger families due to the higher prices. Many people will opt for other lines charging less. Florida is used to have many, many, many options. Now, with RCCL transferring smaller ships to Europe, they have less ship choices. The overall number of berths is probably higher with the Oasis and Allure than with the smaller ships. So there are less sailing choices.

 

No matter what, RCCL's name says it all: Royal CARRIBEAN. They cannot ignore their roots and all the passengers who made them the line they are today because of their loyalty.

 

Growth is a two-edge sword. How to keep your original base of customers happy and still expanding to newer markets and succeed in making a profit for their shareholders.

 

MARAPRINCE

[campus_norway]

Does anyone know just how big of a population, does Europe have these days? :confused:

Europe has a population of about 700 million people according to Wikipedia.

[uksimonusa]

The RCCL cruises originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans -- not for Americans who have to pay to fly across the ocean adding additional costs. This is RCCL's version of homeports for Europe.

 

By placing the Oasis and Allure out of Florida, RCCL feels that they can accommodate the same number of passengers with fewer ships. However, as it was pointed out, these ships are not a good option for larger families due to the higher prices. Many people will opt for other lines charging less. Florida is used to have many, many, many options. Now, with RCCL transferring smaller ships to Europe, they have less ship choices. The overall number of berths is probably higher with the Oasis and Allure than with the smaller ships. So there are less sailing choices.

 

No matter what, RCCL's name says it all: Royal CARRIBEAN. They cannot ignore their roots and all the passengers who made them the line they are today because of their loyalty.

 

Growth is a two-edge sword. How to keep your original base of customers happy and still expanding to newer markets and succeed in making a profit for their shareholders.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

Seeing that Royal Caribbean Cruise Line, was started in NORWAY and Norway is in Europe, it seems to me that they are returning to their roots and not ignoring them!

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/ourHistory.do

[Cruising89143]

The RCCL cruises originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans -- not for Americans who have to pay to fly across the ocean adding additional costs. This is RCCL's version of homeports for Europe.

 

By placing the Oasis and Allure out of Florida, RCCL feels that they can accommodate the same number of passengers with fewer ships. However, as it was pointed out, these ships are not a good option for larger families due to the higher prices. Many people will opt for other lines charging less. Florida is used to have many, many, many options. Now, with RCCL transferring smaller ships to Europe, they have less ship choices. The overall number of berths is probably higher with the Oasis and Allure than with the smaller ships. So there are less sailing choices.

 

No matter what, RCCL's name says it all: Royal CARRIBEAN. They cannot ignore their roots and all the passengers who made them the line they are today because of their loyalty.

 

Growth is a two-edge sword. How to keep your original base of customers happy and still expanding to newer markets and succeed in making a profit for their shareholders.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

RCI is no different than the other cruise lines. How many ships does NCL, HAL, Celebrity or Princess have placed in the Caribbean for the summer months?

[ChipLondon]

At the top of their website it says Royal Caribbean International, so that is what it is "International" for all of us to enjoy, sometime we Euros have to fly to the ships, and other times it is the other way around. That is life, we should enjoy it while we can :D. On a day like this when the Chillean Miners are celebrating fresh air, some people on here are complaining about how hard it is to take a cruise........er.........hello.

 

CONGRATS TO CHILE on a job WELL DONE :)

[sandbox]

Malaga in Spain is becomming a big home port for RCL with the Adventurer of the Seas Based here.

 

RCL are spending a lot of money here and selling very cheap fares to the Spanish to get them hooked 299 euros for a 7 day cruise is not uncommon.

 

Also rumour has it here in Spain there include Velencia Very soon.

Barcalona is now crammed with cruisers and doing very well.

 

A very popular cruise is on the Brilliance out of Dubai.UAE.

 

I myself nearly every year do a transatlantic which is very popular with Euro customers.

 

My reason for not doing RCL this year is the onboard costs.

This year I am trying P&O as their bar prices are half that of RCL with no 15% added also you can take booze on board or order a bottle to you cabin through your steward at a very low duty fee price to drink in your cabin.

[Greghouseo]

Europe as a total continent :D I am guessing thats who RCCL are thinking about when they send over their ships each summer etc.

Over 700,000,000

[SAS21]

I agree that most of the original post was a rant and somewhat on the rude side when talking about Europeans and tipping.

 

 

There is one fact that I agree with- the lack of ships in the States next summer. I am a TA and have had most of my regular summer cruise clients book Carnival for next summer rather than Royal as they usually do. Reason being: Oasis and Allure are their only options out of S. Florida and it is too expensive to pay for the whole family to go on either of those two ships. Carnival has many S. Florida options next summer that are affordable and they are leaning toward those ships even though a lot of them are Loyal to Royal.

 

 

I agree, there is a limited amount of 7 day sailings from the US. I think only 5-6. Oasis, Allure, Voyager, Freedom, Mariner & Navigator.

[TPKeller]

"Tipping is a cultural issue." This is true, but that fact has no relevance here.

 

What we all need to remember is that what the cruise line incorrectly calls "tipping" is in fact a service charge. One that for now, still happens to be optional or adjustable.

 

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet", and the facts tell us that on Royal Caribbean, "tips" are the source of virtually all cash income for those staff positions that the cruise line recommends a tip.

 

It is their salary.

 

As long as the passengers participate to a level that is sufficient to keep the staff paid in accordance with their contractual expectations, this system will remain in place. If it breaks down to where the staff cannot make a living, then it will have to change.

 

Theron

[Davidoff22]

 

What a load of balony!!

I have just returned fron Oasis where I was told by the waiting staff that more an more Americans are withdrawing, or choosing not to pay, tips to the staff in the dining room, and that the Europeans are more sincere and generous!!

We were also told, by the captain, that RCCL cruise lines are rethinking the positions of certain ships with the arrival of the Allure and of course the Oasis due to the combined capacities and the "fall in US market". ]:D

 

That's funny, every time I'm in Europe I hear the exact opposite..

[Missus Makkem]

You guys get the old ships while we get the Oasis and Allure, don't forget the Freedom:)

 

Mmm dont forget where the Independence is now, all year long,yipee.

[COMBOY]

No, RCCL is not abandoning the US for Europe. Positioning two ships worth over 2 billions out of Ft. Lauderdale YEAR ROUND is not abandoning the US in my opinion. However, RCCL is position a lot of its ships in European for the summer season and repositioning back to the US in the winter. Cruise lines have done this for years. I think RCCL see better revenue levels in European for the summer sailings and no where do I see that they are just marketing these ships to Europeans. That would be crazy from a business perspective. US citizens are more than welcome to fly to European and cruise on RCCL ship's. What a great way to see Europe especially since the US dollar is so weak in Europe right now vs doing a land trip. All companies are looking outside the US for more revenue opportunities. So don't worry there will be plenty of ships bases here in the US since American still make up a huge portion of cruise ship passenger base.

[blackpool belle]

The Caribbean has been done to death. When you've seen one island you've seen them all. It's little wonder and it makes sense to invest in the European market with it's rich history and wonderful sight-seeing opportunities.

 

With regards to tipping I have always thought that tips should already be included in the price and then it's up to the individual to reward further any member of staff at their discretion.

[seaofwonder]

As someone living in America I am so glad more ships are going to Europe. I like cruising, but seeing the same islands over and over is just so boring. I LOVE Europe and we just booked a cruise for next spring. I was glad I was able to stay loyal to Royal :-)

[negc]

I have been reading more and more about RCCL moving to the European cruise market because of the stronger Euro or the expected European cruise market. Well, RCCL consider this. . .Americans have been your most lucrative cruise market over the years and are the most liberal tippers when it come to tipping for services rendered. Consider your crew members when they compare tips from the European cruisers compared to the US cruise tipping market. I and perhaps many others have cruised with passengers from the European market. . .and from personal conversations with a few European passengers, I found they do not hold the same "value" of services rendered in regards to tipping.

 

Maybe this will open the eyes of RCCL and other cruise companies to the European and Australian value system of service and tipping. Cruise companies are looking to the European market as a new venue and a market with more available euros $$$$ to purchase cruises. . .but let's not forget the open pockets of the American cruiser when it comes to tipping. American people are the most giving in the world. Thank you Congress for all your giving on our behalf to the world. :-) I have read some articles . . .RCCL, CCL see European cruise market as strong and growing. So they are projecting this as the emerging strong cruise market. Hey guys. . .don't forget us Americans who made you what you are today! We'll be back. . .and maybe find other venues of vacations that does not include cruise industry. Some of you vacated Miami and Los Angeles. . .Don't forget Americans have options. Don't rule American travelers options. Just my humble option . my real board name Texaspepper. . .living in Texas

 

If it comes down to "where the money is" compared to "where the loyalties are" in the cruise industry. . .then so be it. Don't know about other folks but the cruise bargains are dwelling in the US. Is just me or is there some truth to this?

 

RCCL abandoned the entire west coast. Moved the Mariner of the Seas out of Los Angeles to Barcelona and then will come to Galveston, TX for only 5 months at a time starting in Dec 2011

 

Here is my final line. . .does RCCL project the American economy is so weak in coming months that they will move to Europe? RCCL. . .don't give up on America and put all your coins in Europe and the East coast of America with Oasis and Allure only on the East coast. [/quote

 

What a load of balony!!

I have just returned fron Oasis where I was told by the waiting staff that more an more Americans are withdrawing, or choosing not to pay, tips to the staff in the dining room, and that the Europeans are more sincere and generous!!

We were also told, by the captain, that RCCL cruise lines are rethinking the positions of certain ships with the arrival of the Allure and of course the Oasis due to the combined capacities and the "fall in US market". ]:D

 

Making such sweeping generalizations about Americans or Europeans is really foolish and not even worth arguing about. Engaging in an "us" versus "them" argument is juvenile and totally unproductive.:rolleyes:

The fact is that many of the mass-market cruiselines have deployed a large number of their ships to Europe for a part of the year because it allows them to operate more profitably. Anyone who doesn't think that they have taken all factors into consideration before making that decision, doesn't really understand how things work. The "bottom line" is what motivates cruiseline executives and believing that they are abandoning Europe because they have moved ships to a region where they can make a greater profit, is being totally out of touch with reality. Fortunately that kind of thinking is not shared by those executives that make deployment decisions, or the future of RCI and other like-thinking lines would be in definite jeopardy.

[klingoncruiser]

RCI is a FOR profit corporation. They will go where the money is. If that is in Europe, Australia or China, they will go.

 

American have become vary jaded to the cruises. We try to bring our own booze, make our own shore tours in places we feel very safe in, gamble closer to home than on the ships, and are pinching pennies at every turn with the current economy.

 

I do fault the industry for returning to the pre 911 days where cruises outside of Vancouver and Florida were hard to come by. (Keep in mind that CCL is doing nicely in many of these off market areas in the states. No cruise or carnivore? That is easy, it is the same blue sea and the same ports)

[waterbug123]

The RCCL cruises originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans -- not for Americans who have to pay to fly across the ocean adding additional costs. This is RCCL's version of homeports for Europe.......

 

 

No matter what, RCCL's name says it all: Royal CARRIBEAN. They cannot ignore their roots and all the passengers who made them the line they are today because of their loyalty.

 

 

Cruise originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans, AND Americans and anybody else who cares to travel to Europe to board the ship. The European itineraries are well-marketed here in the US, so I think it's pretty safe to say they are clearly intended for Americans too.

 

As for the name of the company, you seem to think that because "caribbean" is in their name, they must focus on Caribbean itineraries and sail more ships in the Caribbean than anywhere else. I suppose you also think that Delta Airlines should continue serving only the Mississippi delta area, where they began as a crop dusting outfit, or that BMW should only sell cars in Bavaria (Germany). A name is just a name. As any company watching the bottom line, they will market their product wherever they think they can make the most profit. The wonderful thing about a free market economy is that if you don't like the way they market their product, you are free to divert your business to their competition. ;)

[harryfat1]

The chairman/CEO pretty much told the whole world in the annual report 6 months ago that they recognize growth and opportunities are in non US markets. They said they will source the vessels according to demand as to maximize profits in the International market.

 

Cut and paste from page 2 and 3 of the annual report below for people to read. So no surprise on the focus on the International market going forward.

 

++++++++++++++++

 

Globalization, Brand Expansion and Satisfaction

During 2009, 46% of ticket revenues came from outside the

United States compared to about 10% earlier in the decade.

This is important for two reasons. First, it provides us with

The flexibility to source the vessels according to demand.

For example, when consumers were hesitant to purchase

transatlantic airfare during the summer of 2009, we sourced

a higher percentage of guests locally than we would have

otherwise. Europeans cruised Europe and North Americans

cruised the Caribbean. Second, the growing global appeal of

our product is bringing new guests into cruising. The cruise

secret is out beyond North America and the value, quality

and caliber of vacation that we offer is gaining acceptance

quickly. So much so that most of the net new capacity

we are launching is being dedicated to the international

markets. In short, Royal Caribbean’s globalization is working

in a big way; as we are expanding and diversifying our guest

sourcing globally, we are creating new demand for our

products in the process.

[RareBird]

Sorry for west coasters. I can't help but read it between the lines.

 

On east coast it's still business as usual. Explorer is still serving northeast :)

[skandls]

I am a California resident and was so happy to see the Mariner based in Los Angeles. And seeing it leave so soon is very sad. I do realize that the 'profit margin' for people doing the MR is no where near the amount of money spent in Europe. There are limited over $150 pp excursions in Mexico. Most of the European excursions will be expensive and popular due to the limited time in port and the desire to 'see the sites'.

 

So until the European markets reach a saturation point with too much competition we will have less and less choices available for cruises based in the US. And if its a port intensive cruise (non MR and Caribbean) I will be looking at the premium lines since onboard ship amenties become less important than the basics of service and good food.

 

The cruiselines will make their ship placements based on their bottom line. My travel dollars will be spent after research (TY cruisecritic and tripadvisor). The next few years will be very interesting as the world economy readjusts.

[negc]

The RCCL cruises originating out of Europe are intended for Europeans -- not for Americans who have to pay to fly across the ocean adding additional costs. This is RCCL's version of homeports for Europe........

 

 

 

No matter what, RCCL's name says it all: Royal CARRIBEAN. They cannot ignore their roots and all the passengers who made them the line they are today because of their loyalty.

 

Growth is a two-edge sword. How to keep your original base of customers happy and still expanding to newer markets and succeed in making a profit for their shareholders.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

And overall they do a pretty good job of maintaining a balance. One would think that there are no RCI ships sailing in the US except Oasis and, soon, Allure. No mention is made of Freedom, Explorer, Serenade, Radiance, Enchantment, Majesty and Monarch, not to mention those other ships which sail from US ports a good part of the year (Jewel, Liberty, Adventure, Voyager etc. Hard to demonstrate "abandonment" when those facts are considered.

And in using the word "Caribbean" in the company's name to make your point, you conveniently fail to note the word "International" which is just as much a part of its identity.

If they don't expand to new markets and make a profit, it won't only be the shareholders who suffer, but the cruising public in general which will have fewer cruise lines to choose from. Not every US citizen who enjoys cruising is aghast at the idea that they can visit far-flung destinations on their favorite cruise line. Some of us actually look forward to the opportunities that these redeployments offer. :) We even find that despite the airfare, which is not always or necessarily that much higher than domestic flights, traveling in Europe where our US dollar has strengthened in recent months, is a good bargain.