Not Allowed on HAL - Lady on Local Talk Show!

[mikjr]

Wow, I just read the article; the woman really takes no responsibility, does she?

 

the problem is... these two radio jocks like to stir the pot, and were up in arms about her being denied her trip. And... they are somewhat friends with the woman!

 

One of the radio hosts kept saying... "why does she need a passport", why do they need to stop at Ensenada? Why does US Customs have to be involved?"

 

He had no clue what he was even talking about. I called in to the show and told him to check out Maritime Law and the Jones Act.

[CruiseRev]

When I went to get my first passport in 1966, I had a certified, government issued copy of my birth certificate. A college classmate had his hospital issued ceritificate which was quickly dismissed bythe passport clerk as a "souvenir document" and not a "birth certificate" or "proof of citizenship."

 

I'm inclined to believe that Joanie is on the right track on this one.

[Krazy Kruizers]

This is the first I have heard of this.

 

She is lucky that HAL has offered her anything considering she doesn't sound like a responsible person. Her friends had passports -- she doesn't. Poor excuse not to have one. I really don't feel sorry for her.

[kyriecat]

I noticed that nothing in mentioned about name changes (married or divorced women) in the website quote posted by Ivz2cruz. Does HAL check for that at boarding? Will they deny people from boarding if a woman's name on her boarding documents doesn't match her BC?

 

For example, on her first two cruises, my mom used her birth certificate and drivers' license to cruise. She has since gotten a passport. Her birth certificate has her maiden name "Mary Jane Smith" but her drivers' license has her married name "Mary Jane Jones." On our first cruise she was asked to provide her marriage certificate as proof of name change. Fortunately, I had heard that was a possibility so made sure that she brought it. On the second cruise, no one asked to see the marriage certificate, only BC and DL. I didn't understand the inconsistancy (Galveston vs. Vancouver).

[pms4104]

I noticed that nothing in mentioned about name changes (married or divorced women) in the website quote posted by Ivz2cruz. Does HAL check for that at boarding? Will they deny people from boarding if a woman's name on her boarding documents doesn't match her BC?

 

For example, on her first two cruises, my mom used her birth certificate and drivers' license to cruise. She has since gotten a passport. Her birth certificate has her maiden name "Mary Jane Smith" but her drivers' license has her married name "Mary Jane Jones." On our first cruise she was asked to provide her marriage certificate as proof of name change. Fortunately, I had heard that was a possibility so made sure that she brought it. On the second cruise, no one asked to see the marriage certificate, only BC and DL. I didn't understand the inconsistancy (Galveston vs. Vancouver).

Sorry, don't know if HAL checks the name change paper trail. No clue about the inconsistencies in verifying names on documents. But, since your mom now has a passport, I would suggest she use that for boarding. Just be sure that her HAL reservation is in the same name as on the passport.

[kyriecat]

Sorry - I wasn't clear on my question about women's names. My mom does use her passport now so no problems for her. It was previous cruises in 2004 & 2006 that she still used the BC/MC/DL for identification.

 

I brought up the question because the woman wanting her money back said HAL's information does not properly address that the birth ceritificate has to be "government issued" and not hospital issued. HAL's website also doesn't address birth certificate names that do not match reservation name/government-issued ID name. I wasn't sure if there is a cruiseline or government requirement that they match. If it is a requirement and the names don't match, would HAL offer a woman denied boarding a refund or future cruise certificate because their website doesn't address the issue.

 

I haven't seen the name issue brought up on the HAL board. I've seen it on the RC board. I've seen the question of whether to bring the marriage certificate asked with various replies. Some women have been asked to show their marriage certificate as proof of name change, some women have said they were never asked, and at least one woman posted that she wasn't allowed to board because she didn't have proof of name change. If I remember correctly, the woman denied boarding said RC wouldn't give her any refund, but I didn't follow the story that closely so with enough publicity she may have eventually gotten something back.

[pms4104]

Sorry - I wasn't clear on my question about women's names. My mom does use her passport now so no problems for her. It was previous cruises in 2004 & 2006 that she still used the BC/MC/DL for identification.

 

I brought up the question because the woman wanting her money back said HAL's information does not properly address that the birth ceritificate has to be "government issued" and not hospital issued. HAL's website also doesn't address birth certificate names that do not match reservation name/government-issued ID name. I wasn't sure if there is a cruiseline or government requirement that they match. If it is a requirement and the names don't match, would HAL offer a woman denied boarding a refund or future cruise certificate because their website doesn't address the issue.

While HAL may not address in excruciating detail all of the ins and outs of travel docs, they do carry a disclaimer:

 

"PLEASE NOTE: it is your sole responsibility to obtain and have available the proper travel documents that are necessary for your travel, including all costs related to arrangements to obtain entry to countries you visit and re-entry to your destination country. Boarding may be denied or fines may be levied against those guests without proper documentation. Payment of any fines levied is the responsibility of the

individual guest."

 

Also, HAL posts a link to the government website for required documents.

 

That alone gets HAL off the hook for having to reimburse or offer anything for those who don't have proper docs.

 

As for the name variations between BC and DL ... I would think it would be common sense to carry whatever is necessary to document the name change in the event of marriage and, possibly, subsequent divorce and remarriage. Otherwise, how would HAL or DHS know that the BC being presented isn't one someone found by dumpster diving?

[whogo]

Note that Holland America's published information asks for a birth certificate, not a government-issued certified birth certificate.

 

U.S. citizens on cruises in the Western Hemisphere that originate and terminate in the same U.S. port are not required to have

a passport to sail, but will need proof of citizenship such

as an original or copy of a birth certificate, a certificate

of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s

license (EDL), along with a government-issued photo

ID. A passport is still the preferred document. PLEASE

NOTE that you may still be required to present a

passport to enter the countries your cruise is visiting.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-destinations/Tour_Tips.pdf

 

I know not whether the woman was booked on a closed loop cruise in the Western Hemisphere that originated and terminated in the same port,

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Note that Holland America's published information asks for a birth certificate, not a government-issued certified birth certificate.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-destinations/Tour_Tips.pdf

 

I know not whether the woman was booked on a closed loop cruise in the Western Hemisphere that originated and terminated in the same port,

I believe this women was going on the Zaandam to Hawaii if I am not mistaken. Yes the wording above is misleading and it should state a certified copy of the government issued birth ceritifcate

[pms4104]

The problem as I see it, in the big picture, is that the WHTI allows a variety of documentation depending on the type of travel. Yep, it can get confusing.

 

Perhaps a real and permanent remedy to confusion would come if the Feds would revisit the WHTI and amend it so that passports would be required to enter the U.S. by land, sea, or air.

[pms4104]

I believe this women was going on the Zaandam to Hawaii if I am not mistaken. Yes the wording above is misleading and it should state a certified copy of the government issued birth ceritifcate

Actually, it isn't just HAL's site that may be misleading or incomplete. Following is from the gov't site www.getyouhome.gov:

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization)."

 

So, if a government-issued BC is required, the Feds need to spell that out more clearly. Nowhere on that site is there any indication that the BC needs be anything more than a copy. So, I suppose any type of copy should be acceptable?

[long_shot45]

just get a passport. One day we will all need one just for id.

[mikjr]

Note that Holland America's published information asks for a birth certificate, not a government-issued certified birth certificate.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-destinations/Tour_Tips.pdf

 

I know not whether the woman was booked on a closed loop cruise in the Western Hemisphere that originated and terminated in the same port,

 

That was her whole point... it says "birth certificate", NOT government issued. I guess, based on that statement on the HAL website, she would have an issue with HAL.

[whogo]

just get a passport. One day we will all need one just for id.

Show it to the security guards when boarding a bus, attending a concert, filling your gas tank, entering a post office, or picking up your kids from school. Everyone carry one, show it on demand. Papers please.

[taxmantoo]

The problem as I see it, in the big picture, is that the WHTI allows a variety of documentation depending on the type of travel. Yep, it can get confusing.

 

The REAL problem is that people, for whatever reason, still refuse to apply for a passport. Regardless of what WHTI allows or not, it's quite simple...GET A PASSPORT and remove all possibilities of confusion.

[Randyk47]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]I'm so past having any empathy for people who wish to leave the U.S. and refuse to get a passport. The whole world requires passports. Please get one if you are going to travel or be willing to face the consequences.[/B]

[/quote]

Me too also. I'm trying not to be unkind or unsympathetic but it's not like there's been no news or discussion about this subject and not just here on CC.

[bepsf]

[quote name='mikjr']the problem is... these two radio jocks like to stir the pot, and were up in arms about her being denied her trip. And... they are somewhat friends with the woman!

One of the radio hosts kept saying... "why does she need a passport", why do they need to stop at Ensenada? Why does US Customs have to be involved?"

He had no clue what he was even talking about. I called in to the show and told him to check out Maritime Law and the Jones Act.[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Bravo![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Yet more proof that very few folks on TV or Radio are truly intelligent.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Hawaiidan]

I agree with many others... there is no excuse for being ignorant of the laws that have been in effect for almost a year... and that were published over 2 years ago

Time to get over the victim mentality and feeling sorry for people to dumb or lazy to take care of themselves. There is no excuse to mess up that bad

Glad to see Holland America hold the line......:D

[Protseq]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]"The only states that are issuing such licenses at this time are [B]Michigan,[/B] [B]New York, Vermont and Washington.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]"


You can add Delaware to that EDL list. I have one of them in my wallet.

[chrispb]

Sometimes even a passport is not sufficient for HAL. We boarded the Volendam in Hong Kong and we were asked for a second ID ie a driving licence (which we didn't have with us). Another British couple had waitied around 1 and half hrs because they didn't have a second form of ID either.
I had a photocopy of my passport photo page and oddly this was acceptable (hardly a 2nd form of ID I would have thought). Eventually we were all allowed to board, but not a good way to start a trip.

[bepsf]

[quote name='Protseq'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]"The only states that are issuing such licenses at this time are [B]Michigan,[/B] [B]New York, Vermont and Washington.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]"


You can add Delaware to that EDL list. I have one of them in my wallet.[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]You mean the government doesn't even know what's going on...?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]:cool:;)[/SIZE][/FONT]

[taxmantoo]

[quote name='bepsf'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]You mean the government doesn't even know what's going on...?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]:cool:;)[/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Don't they usually get their news from WikiLeaks? ;)

[erewhon]

I am very surprised that anyone would try to travel from their country of birth without a valid passport.

[Himself]

I feel the pain of the good woman BUT One has to have a PASSPORT to board a HAL ship and there are NO exceptionss.

[bepsf]

[quote name='erewhon']I am very surprised that anyone would try to travel from their country of birth without a valid passport.[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...much less the country of their citizenship.[/SIZE][/FONT]
;)