Fed up with negative attitudes because I'm British

[susieh]

I've been following these boards for about a year because we were doing a Caribbean cruise last October and then an Alaskan cruise this July.

 

The Caribbean cruise was with RCI. The Alaska one with X.

 

For both we have done prepaid gratuities. We don't do prepaid drinks packages but we do buy bottles of wine in the restaurant, drinks in the bar and also use the speciality restaurants. For all of these we tip the standard amount (it's generally added to bills at the bar and included in the restaurant charges). We then add to our prepaid tips if we've had good service but won't if it has just been 'ok'.

 

I've seen what seems like hundreds of comments about us Brits not understanding tipping and not accepting it is the US (and therefore the ship) culture.

 

Why are there so many people on here who display a negative attitude to Brits because they'll assume we're all stingy tippers and don't understand the US culture? While I fully accept that when in Rome you do as Romans do the cruise lines don't do much to explain how the system works and that the crew are not paid a decent wage but that the 'tips' are their wage.

[cb at sea]

I think tipping the "suggested" amount is fine....after all, it's THEIR suggestion! I don't know why there is an "attitude" about cultures where tipping isn't generally done...

[NHRedSoxFan]

Where are these negative comments? Do you have a few links as an example? Otherwise this sounds like a random rant.

[derf5585]

Tipping on cruise ships: the etiquette guide

The editor in chief of cruisecritic.co.uk on whether tips should be included in fares and how to show your appreciation for good service onboard

Carolyn Spencer Brown

As cruising becomes ever-more international, and as the cultures and holiday traditions of Brits are increasingly rubbing up alongside those of Australians, Japanese and Americans, the issue of tipping has become an increasingly controversial minefield.

A recent Times Online story reported that Britain’s cruise ship travellers are becoming increasingly hostile to the practice. Indeed, in a December poll on http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk that asked travellers about their preferences for paying gratuities, 50 per cent said that service should be included in overall cruise fares. Only 6 per cent felt that tipping should be a mandatory charge.

Also offensive to many is the philosophy that gratuity giving, which stands for “To Insure Prompt Service” is being forced upon travellers rather than a voluntary act of generosity.

But here’s the rub. The real problem with mandatory tipping policies that are running rampant at US-based cruise lines, is cultural. In one of a number of comments to the Times Online’s “Cruise passengers say: we’ll tip when we want to”, Rob McHardy, who worked on the QE2, was particularly direct. “Tipping is an American concept that makes sense in a personal service industry but only works in a culture where it is ingrained to tip.”

Loss of personal service

For most lines, passenger tips have long been used to supplement the pay that crew members earn. What’s changed in the past decade or so is that travellers who once slipped a cash bequest of their choice into envelopes and personally handed them to the crew who served them now pay a mandated charge for service that’s applied to their onboard accounts.

Tips supplement pay?

It’s not just that tipping can add extra expense onto an already pricey holiday, though that’s definitely part of the problem. The mandatory charge, which on most cruise lines is about £3 - £6 per person per day, can add up.

Cruise passengers also resent the implication that they should, beyond paying for a cruise to begin with, further be required to supplement crew salaries. Robert James, in his post on Times Online, noted that “sometimes I tip because I feel compelled to do so. However, I want employers to pay their workers properly so that they do not wait, cap in hand, for their wages to be topped up by me. The price for labour should be built into the cost of goods and services.”

“The solution,” writes Ricardo Gallo in another post, “is to increase their wages – and our fees if necessary – not to rely on us to do it for you.”

Incorporating tips into fares

For cruisers wanting to avoid the very British anxiety over when and how much to tip, included gratuities can solve the problem. For those who wish to abide by the discretionary convention of tipping, it may be a little harder to find a solution which is acceptable on both sides of the Atlantic.

My advice: if tips are included consider it all part of the cost of the cruise. Should you receive outstanding service leave a note, or tell the cruise line. An old-fashioned 'thank-you' is also much appreciated, and culturally acceptable to all.

from

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/holiday_type/cruises/article6952104.ece

[grayjay]

Well Susieh, don't worry ;) , because it's not just the British .... It's us "stingy Krauts", too , who are sometimes mentioned whenever the subject of tipping is discussed . The fact is that quite a lot of people back here, when new to cruising or to travelling abroad in general, are astonished when they are supposed to tip on a daily basis or more than the approx. 10 % on top of a restaurant charge and that there are a lot of people waiting for a tip. The situation worsens when there is a "service charge" but no true service at all is given, as it seems to be the case with some Italian-based cruise ships where the waiters ignore you wherever possible.

So you either have to explain which I'm apt to do with fellow German cruisers who complain of service charges or to learn by experience.

When I was new to travelling abroad a few decades ago, the poor waitress serving me got tipped only a quite small amount - I just didn't know. Nowadays I know that even before entering a cruise ship, you have got to have your stack of small notes handy to tip the shuttle driver from the airport, the porter, room service, the taxi driver to port, the porter.... We have never skimped on tipping extra especially because we almost always had excellent service on Celebrity ships, and I don't grudge them the money I give freely. It adds to the cost of the cruise and so has to be taken into consideration. I'd feel much more comfortable, though, if gratuitities were included automatically or, even better, if the service crew got decent wages and tipping went extra.

[dkjretired]

Would be nice to see some examples, I'm on this board every day and just don't see it...I don't care if your British, German, Klingon or whatever, If you don't pay the tips and come on this board and say so, prepare for the flames...

[Keith1010]

I've been following these boards for about a year because we were doing a Caribbean cruise last October and then an Alaskan cruise this July.

 

The Caribbean cruise was with RCI. The Alaska one with X.

 

For both we have done prepaid gratuities. We don't do prepaid drinks packages but we do buy bottles of wine in the restaurant, drinks in the bar and also use the speciality restaurants. For all of these we tip the standard amount (it's generally added to bills at the bar and included in the restaurant charges). We then add to our prepaid tips if we've had good service but won't if it has just been 'ok'.

 

I've seen what seems like hundreds of comments about us Brits not understanding tipping and not accepting it is the US (and therefore the ship) culture.

 

Why are there so many people on here who display a negative attitude to Brits because they'll assume we're all stingy tippers and don't understand the US culture? While I fully accept that when in Rome you do as Romans do the cruise lines don't do much to explain how the system works and that the crew are not paid a decent wage but that the 'tips' are their wage.

 

I do not think people mean to be disrespectful. I do think that there are some who can be more tactful in how they word things.

 

The same holds true but only in reverse when those from the USA post on the European Ports of Call Board. For example, when someone from the USA is asking about how much to tip or someone from the USA is giving a recommendation on how much to tip, I've seen the in country person say something like you American do not know how to tip and you Americans think that you have to tip for everything.

 

In the instances that you mention and in these instances people could have made their points in a more diplomatic manner.

 

Again, I don't think that most people mean to be disrespectful. Rather I think in their passion to make a point or to explain how they are accustomed to items in their particular country that they are a little to pointed in their comments.

 

Keith

[4774Papa]

I certainly don't have a negative attitude about the British people, most of my ancestors came from the British Isles.

Brits may have a different custom on tipping, but that doesn't merit a culture war.

 

I lived in Germany for four years and discovered that the service charge is already included in the price of a meal or drink. Still, you leave a small tip.

The USA and American cruise lines follow the American custom of tipping. For example, in the USA, if you have great service in a restaurant, the customary tip is 20% or if you are tighter with your money 15%.

I am not sure what more can be said, except that we should understand each others customs and deal with them.

[Euphemus]

I've seen what seems like hundreds of comments about us Brits not understanding tipping and not accepting it is the US (and therefore the ship) culture.

 

Why are there so many people on here who display a negative attitude to Brits because they'll assume we're all stingy tippers and don't understand the US culture?

 

I'm an American and I've noticed this. I can't say that I've read hundreds of posts like this but I can say there have been a few threads where this has cropped up.

 

There was one particularly nasty thread that I believe was pulled. In short, a British woman booked her first cruise and it was on Independence. For her, it was a financial stretch. Having not cruised before and coming from a culture with different tipping norms she was completely taken aback by the suggested/required tips and she declared that she simply didn't intend to pay them. If you've read the boards for any time, you can guess what happened next: it devolved pretty quickly and it turned ugly. It does happen.

 

For my part, if I could have a nickel for every time that I've heard an American couple talk in public about their explicit intention not leave any tips, I would be rich: in elevators (hello, I can hear you :confused:), in lounges, at dinner (as dinner conversation! :eek:), in the theater, by the pool, on excursions...

 

Stinginess knows no nationality.

 

We do as you do: pay the suggested/required amount and then slip extra to someone who went above and beyond.

[RJL58]

RCL (Independence OS) and X (Eclipse) out of Southampton now include the gratuity into the price of drinks purchased onboard, you do not see it on your paper bar slip..........

[Tenn4ever]

Okay, I'm a little confused here. We're not British. We're American and getting ready to go on our first cruise. I understand that the gratuities are added to your online account. I like that very much because then I don't have to worry about it.

 

However, I've read posts where cruisers talk about giving a lot of extra tips at the end of the cruise(above what was billed to their account). I don't want to sound stingy but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the built-in gratuities and begin putting pressure on everyone else to tip more at the end of the cruise? :(

[pete_coach]

Susieh, I think a bit of paranoia has set in.

Tipping is an ongoing topic and opinions of it are as varied at the number of people posting. Some people use tipping as a way to show their status by tipping a lot and bragging about it and the direct opposite, some people just indicate that they tip what they believe is deserved.

Do not feel in any way inadequate because you do not tip or if you do, do not feel inadequate because some blowhard says they tip more than you.

[dana77kc]

OK...I know I'm not supposed to laugh, but I am an American amicably married to a Brit so I am familiar with this topic. We live in FL and spend several months each year in the UK and Europe. We cruise and we ummmm... land travel. This fight errr discussion is one husband and I have often. Our solution is that he gets to decide whether to tip and if so, how much to tip, everywhere but in North America. In North America I am the tipper/tipette. On the ship, we just figure that the added on gratuities soften the blow of the fares advertised. It's a shell game of sorts.

Husband and I have lots of cultural differences. I think they enrich our lives and marriage. One thing I've noticed on cruises, especially transatlantic...the Brits really know how to have fun ie quiz games, group activites, etc. and are unfailingly polite. I do think message boards at times make it difficult to properly perceive "tone" and feelings get hurt. In order to remedy that, let's all join cyber hands and sing...

 

Things have come to a pretty pass,

Our romance is growing flat,

For you like this and the other

While I go for this and that.

Goodness knows what the end will be;

Oh, I don't know where I'm at...

It looks as if we two will never be one,

Something must be done.

 

(refrain)

You say eether and I say eyether,

You say neether and I say nyther;

Eether, eyether, neether, nyther,

Let's call the whole thing off!

You like potato and I like potahto,

You like tomato and I like tomahto;

Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!

Let's call the whole thing off!

But oh! If we call the whole thing off,

Then we must part.

And oh! If we ever part,

Then that might break my heart!

So, if you like pajamas and I like pajahmas,

I'll wear pajamas and give up pajahmas.

For we know we need each other,

So we better call the calling off off.

Let's call the whole thing off!

 

You say laughter and I say lawfter,

You say after and I say awfter;

Laughter, lawfter, after, awfter,

Let's call the whole thing off!

You like vanilla and I like vanella,

You, sa's'parilla and I sa's'parella;

Vanilla, vanella, Choc'late, strawb'ry!

Let's call the whole thing off!

But oh! If we call the whole thing off,

Then we must part.

And oh! If we ever part,

Then that might break my heart!

So, if you go for oysters and I go for ersters

I'll order oysters and cancel the ersters.

For we know we need each other,

So we better call the calling off off!

Let's call the whole thing off!

I feel better now...

[hylasgirl]

Okay, I'm a little confused here. We're not British. We're American and getting ready to go on our first cruise. I understand that the gratuities are added to your online account. I like that very much because then I don't have to worry about it.

 

However, I've read posts where cruisers talk about giving a lot of extra tips at the end of the cruise(above what was billed to their account). I don't want to sound stingy but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the built-in gratuities and begin putting pressure on everyone else to tip more at the end of the cruise? :(

 

 

This here is the American attitude... You DO NOT have to tip above the requested gratuities. AND... no one should pressure anyone into doing so.

 

I think tipping is a personal matter and should be kept to yourself. I do think it would be better for everyone if they included all gratuities in the cruise fare. As more and more nationalities are cruising all over the world... I think this would help elevate the cultural tipping conceptions on cruises. I tip here in the USA because I know what our waiters get paid and its always been our culture. But I don't take that same practice with me to Europe. I know it's not necessary in most of Europe and therefore I do not tip. A lot of people would say I am cheap.... Why am I cheap if this is not their custom? I do not have the common American arrogant attitude of thinking my culture is better than anyone else's.

[4774Papa]

I'm an American and I've noticed this. I can't say that I've read hundreds of posts like this but I can say there have been a few threads where this has cropped up.

 

There was one particularly nasty thread that I believe was pulled. In short, a British woman booked her first cruise and it was on Independence. For her, it was a financial stretch. Having not cruised before and coming from a culture with different tipping norms she was completely taken aback by the suggested/required tips and she declared that she simply didn't intend to pay them. If you've read the boards for any time, you can guess what happened next: it devolved pretty quickly and it turned ugly. It does happen.

 

For my part, if I could have a nickel for every time that I've heard an American couple talk in public about their explicit intention not leave any tips, I would be rich: in elevators (hello, I can hear you :confused:), in lounges, at dinner (as dinner conversation! :eek:), in the theater, by the pool, on excursions...

 

Stinginess knows no nationality.

 

We do as you do: pay the suggested/required amount and then slip extra to someone who went above and beyond.

"Stinginess knows no nationality."

You got that right. Two of my children worked for some time as waiters(waitresses) and have many stories about people that would leave almost no tips, like for a party of six. Some people are just tight. You have to respect the service of the person serving you.

[SusieV]

Susieh, I think a bit of paranoia has set in.

Tipping is an ongoing topic and opinions of it are as varied at the number of people posting. Some people use tipping as a way to show their status by tipping a lot and bragging about it and the direct opposite, some people just indicate that they tip what they believe is deserved.

Do not feel in any way inadequate because you do not tip or if you do, do not feel inadequate because some blowhard says they tip more than you.

 

I wouldn't go quite that far. If you don't tip at all, then yeah, you should feel bad. Regardless of your cultural norms, when on a cruise it is expected that you tip. If the service is abysmal, talk to a supervisor and give them the chance to fix it.

 

But as long as you do tip somewhere in the ballpark of the suggested amounts, it's all good. You don't have to leave $100s of extra dollars at the end of the week if you don't wish to do so.

[dzcruisers]

Okay, I'm a little confused here. We're not British. We're American and getting ready to go on our first cruise. I understand that the gratuities are added to your online account. I like that very much because then I don't have to worry about it.

 

However, I've read posts where cruisers talk about giving a lot of extra tips at the end of the cruise(above what was billed to their account). I don't want to sound stingy but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the built-in gratuities and begin putting pressure on everyone else to tip more at the end of the cruise? :(

 

The amount of tip added onto your account is fine if you do not choose to tip [extra. There are times when we do not tip extra at all. At other times when someone does something special we may slip a dollar or two extra at the end. But unless there is something that far exceeds your expectations the specified amounts are all that is necessary. I saw some "Brits give porters $40. to handle their luggage at disembarcation. I almost offered to take their bags. There are people who don't tip from all nationalities.

It's like people thinking they are being ripped off with the cuperto (sp) charges at restaurants in Italy. The Italians don't have any problem because it is their custom.

[oncerfan]

My advice: if tips are included consider it all part of the cost of the cruise. Should you receive outstanding service leave a note, or tell the cruise line. An old-fashioned 'thank-you' is also much appreciated, and culturally acceptable to all.

from

 

Agreed!

 

Unfortunately, some people are just so ethnocentric and passionate... Tipping should be up to each individual person. Whether you want to tip through money, a note, a letter, or even a smile... as long as some recognition is given. Just my two cents.

[Germancruiser]

Ah I loved that- .....Klingon--- great statement dj- well said. As a " Kraut" I can not say anything bad about behaviour here on the boords- and if so - I would not care. Same as always- Germans can not be without their Kraut... English don´t tip or all rude and drunk all the time, Americans are plain stupid and ignorant - and all such nonsense one can read sometimes...!

As for the Gratitutes- well I refuse to pay them in advance- I still not very happy with they way they handle it nowadays with this cashless system on board. I prefer the old was- putting money into those envenlopes and handing them over personally- maybe if the service was outstanding ( which is the case with X- usually) a few nice notes on the cover. While booking my Transatlantic with new Silly they included the tip in my cruise fare. I am still in the process to decline that...!

Michael

[Us Two]

We are seniors living on a tight budget, yet we chose to cruise.

We do one cruise a year and save hard for it. When everything is added into a cruise it's a lot of money for us. So we only pay what the suggested rate is as re tipping, we just do not have extra to give, but are in agreement with the amount .;)

[Moomintroll]

Hi Susie,

 

Not only am I British but also a smoker. I tip (depending on service, of course) over and above the "norm" and I never smoke anywhere I'm not supposed to. If I allowed myself to, I could spend a lot of time composing indignant rants in response to the "Brits don't even know what tipping is" and "smokers don't care about anything except their addiction" that come up here often. When I first started kicking around these boards it incensed me; now not so much.

 

So Susie, I do feel your pain. If I were you, I'd just let it wash over you and look forward to your next cruise :)

 

While I'm up here on this soapbox, I also like to dress up for formal night. Just sayin' ;)

[Project_gal]

This is always such a difficult subject both across cultures and within them. Personally, I dislike tipping. I find it hard, even within my own culture, to understand why you tip some people and not others. How does giving a "Christmas Box" to the postman work when your modern "Postal Delivery Operative" changes every week? Should I tip my hairdresser when he is the owner of the up-market "Hair Design Studio" I use?

 

Once you cross cultures, it becomes more difficult. I grew up understanding that, "in Europe" you left some small change as a tip in a bar. But what do you do if you are known to be off a cruise ship where the majority of passengers are from the US and the staff, therefore, expect a much larger tip?

 

What about those cultures where tipping is frowned upon or even not allowed? It is amazing in how many of those situations, tipping IS expected from a visitor, especially those off a cruise ship. But how do you know when a tip WILL offend?

 

We have travelled in the US for many years and thought that we had learned quite a bit about their system of tipping and, as others have said, "when in Rome ...". It was even clear to us, from cross-country tours, that tipping practices [well, percentages] vary across the US [just as does how you need to describe the way you want your eggs and steak cooked]. I thought that I understood it all! Then I became good friends with an American. From her, I "learned" that not only did I not tip enough but that there were all sorts of people I had been omitting to tip all these years. Surprisingly, I always received wonderful service from these people when my friend claimed that it would be a disaster not to tip them. I just explained it away as allowance being made for a visitor.

 

Then, last week, I learned that my friend has filed for bankrupcy and she now admits that she has spent her whole life living beyond her means. Perhaps she was not the best tutor.

 

I would prefer a world without tipping but that is unlikely to happen. That being so, I would rather be seen to be generous that tight but, perhaps, not as generous as my friend.

 

Sue

[room010]

If you think Brits are "stingy tippers" then try Australia where the practice isn't the norm. And if you do decide to reward exceptional service with a small tip (20% is unheard of) it will be graciously and gratefully received - but it's not expected. Tipping has always been a part of cruising 'etiquette' and is deeply engrained and because of that most of us are happy to tip - even if sometimes we don't believe it's been earned or deserved.

[sufferingx]

I've been following these boards for about a year because we were doing a Caribbean cruise last October and then an Alaskan cruise this July.

 

The Caribbean cruise was with RCI. The Alaska one with X.

 

For both we have done prepaid gratuities. We don't do prepaid drinks packages but we do buy bottles of wine in the restaurant, drinks in the bar and also use the speciality restaurants. For all of these we tip the standard amount (it's generally added to bills at the bar and included in the restaurant charges). We then add to our prepaid tips if we've had good service but won't if it has just been 'ok'.

 

I've seen what seems like hundreds of comments about us Brits not understanding tipping and not accepting it is the US (and therefore the ship) culture.

 

Why are there so many people on here who display a negative attitude to Brits because they'll assume we're all stingy tippers and don't understand the US culture? While I fully accept that when in Rome you do as Romans do the cruise lines don't do much to explain how the system works and that the crew are not paid a decent wage but that the 'tips' are their wage.

 

 

dont get too upset about it but do your own thing and everyone will be happy.

i can quote you our experience with princess out of australia, who were adding 10 dollars per day per person to the on board account to cover gratuities. asap after boarding we informed the pursers desk we preferred to give our own rewards for service and they did not add the impost.

 

this meant the the five hundred dollars we distributed went to those we considered deserved it. actually we paid half to them half way through the cruise and the balance on disembarkation.

 

this is more in line with the australian and new zealand way. now, two years later princess have scrapped the automatic addition to accounts on cruises out of australia anyway.

 

This is one of the many things they have to learn when 90% of the passengers are australian or new zealand.

 

You will find many posts on various cruise critic sites for and against as the alternative argument that behind the scenes staff do not benefit. that may be so but it is up to the cruise lines to adjust the salaries accordingly.

 

People from different parts of the world are different and tend to place more emphasis on some things more than others, i.e food, entertainment and service and this is a learning curve for both staff and cruise line. save your frustration for the laundry. that really is a war zone. better still take your frustrastion out on the gym equipment.

 

sufferingx

[Greghouseo]

A touch of paranoia and inverted xenophobia by the OP methinks.

 

I have never felt any anti-British antipathy, just, in general discussions about differences of opinion based on different cultural and financial perspectives.

 

My only grouse, and be it with Brits, Americans, Canadians, Aussies are trhe ones who boast about avoiding giving gratuities for the sake of it.

 

If the service you receive does not merit reward, don't do it. If the service enhances and adds to your holiday enjoyment then do............. just don't boast about it......either way!!!!