Seabourn's "house wines"

[wripro]

Let's also all realize that we are being generous when referring to the wine servers as sommeliers. They are basically waiters who have had some training with wines but they certainly do not qualify for that title. There may be one true sommelier or knowledgeable wine expert on board each ship but most are not. I'm no expert but most of the time I know far more than they do.

[scubadiverdude]

I have to say, I am very confused as to why they prefer to have conflict with customers and refuse a different wine rather than providing a list and giving the choice. I wonder if it is not a technique to make people buy wine. The assistant sommelier try to sale wine after refusing an alternative wine twice.

The Chenet which was the least sweet rose wine at lunch ran out after 3 days. On day 3 they even forgot to bring it up and served it warm with ice. When in the med they are so close to some very rich wine regions where they could purchase local wines for very cheap and they keep returning to the same ports too.

The Chianti was a good wine for dinner and the Bordeaux Blanc too. We had a Sauvignon Blanc from Chile that was so green that we could not drink it. The cote du Rhone is also a good one to have.

[winegirl]

While in Europe, we've had excellent experiences visiting local merchants in town and bringing back a couple bottles to the ship. Normally we'll pay less than $ 20 a bottle for some very excellent but lesser known labels. We rely on the merchant's knowledge and have not been steered wrong. On some ships, they discourage this, but others don't mind and we gladly pay any corkage fee. Nice to have in the room, nice to have while dining.

[NEOPHYTUS]

I tasted the Robert Mondavi chardonnay today.... and I still liked it! It's the special reserve they serve on Seabourn... I doubt that you can buy it for that price!

Marja

 

 

Of course I can...it's the same low end Mondavi stuff served on Seabourn..its called the Private Selection line(PS) in the USA... matter of fact many bottles on Seabourn don't carry the PS designation and are even a lower end version produced and sold exclusively to institutional providers, much of it for export ...the Reserve Chardonnay you cite has not been marketed since 2007-2008 and is only available in limited numbers at a few wine shops for between $30 and $40...Robert Mondavi was purchased by Constellation Brands a few years ago, down marketed the entire Mondavi operation and are the world's largest wine producer ...some of their other low end wines are Ravenswood, Blackstone and Nobilo. Their "better" line, Clos du Bois, can be had in the USA for $7.99 a bottle and another 10% off if you buy six.

[themed4me]

Moreover beyond the low price -- which may or may not be a yardstick-- these wines are some of the most manipulated wines with additives that you will find. Marja if you like them here's to you, but I can't toast your health (with intellectual honesty) with some of these terrible wines.

[Seabourn-nail]

Moreover beyond the low price -- which may or may not be a yardstick-- these wines are some of the most manipulated wines with additives that you will find. Marja if you like them here's to you, but I can't toast your health (with intellectual honesty) with some of these terrible wines.

Maybe that's why I suffer all the time....:(. I just happen to like Chardonnay and yes, I know and drink some better ones like the Spanish Enate and Jean Leon and I do like some French Bourgogne wines for their minerals like Pouilly Fuissé and Meursault, but still I think this wine (Mondavi) is pleasant. One bottle is better than the other though... like it is the case with every wine.

Oh yes... I already edited my message regarding the "special reserve"... at the bottom of my post;).

Marja

[cruiserbunny]

OMG! Chenet Rose! The name jumped off the page at me!

 

2 euros 39 cents a bottle in my local supermarket, which is not the cheapest supermarket in town either.

 

The big selling point for the Chenet blended wines is the kink in the neck of the bottle.

 

They are the cheap of the cheap end of blended nondescript wines from the European Wine Lake, much of which is distilled into industrial alcohol these days.

 

I am so pleased to have read everything about this cruise line on CC, I always aspired to try it after Cunard, believing it to be a truly wonderful experience.

 

Now I have been made aware of the reality.

 

Totally agree Griller! Selling at £2.85 per bottle in Tesco in the UK.

 

How can Seabourn get away with advertising that they include "fine wines"?

[scubadiverdude]

Completly agree, how can they advertise fine wines?????????????????

I have sent a letter to Seabourn via my travel agent lets wait and see what they have to say...

[LaPaloma]

It has occured to me...SB does read these sites...and...what if SB decides to not include these cheap wines..not wanting to offend anyone....thus.. all that.you imbibe..will be at your cost????? hmmmmm Now I think that you all would find that a fine kettle of fish. We are in difficult times, Perhaps if SB could do away with these inclusives...they could cut their expenses. :eek:

[CraftyEC]

But surely that is the whole point of SB marketing itself as an inclusive luxury experience? If they took away the wine it would no longer be all-inclusive and would be in a totally different category of cruiseline. If they are wanting to hold onto the luxury market (as they do by providing excellent service on board) then it doesn't seem sensible to 'cheese-pare' quite as closely as they seem to be doing on the wine-front. To use that currently greatly over-used expression, 'in the current economic climate' it is understandable that they are wanting to squeeze costs, but it can become counter-productive if taken to extremes.

[LaPaloma]

I see where you are coming from..but..if you go back a few years..the ships were wanting to do away with the inclusives. We all wanted them..and have them. Does it seem too much to ask...that if you want other than what they provide, and they really do try to please..then you may buy one more to your tastes. Strange as it may seem..we may not all have the same tastes. In blind testing of wines...it invaribly proves...that even with those supposedly in the know...the less expensive wines many times get picked. I would imagine that if SB and SS counted up the numbers of "house wines" consumed on each trip...they would be flabberghasted that they were not liked...if you don't like something..why drink it???,

[won2go]

Seabourn advertises on their web site:

"Complimentary fine wines are poured with lunch and dinner"

That's great except that the fine wine can often be a bottle that costs less than $5. I think Seabourn should either change their web site to read

"Complimentary wine poured with lunch and dinner", or else improve the quality of the house wines they serve.

[themed4me]

Won2go let's hope it is the latter. Give me a 10 dollar bottle budget on 100 case minimum orders and I guarantee we can double (or triple) the quality of food friendly wines. The problem is at the buying office -- they just don't get it. Go heavy on the white burgundies, provencal roses and carefully selected reds. Food wines. Not wines that obliterate what the kitchens do so well. Why is this so hard?

[scubadiverdude]

themed4me, completely agree with you and I believe there is a direct link with the move to Holland & America.

I would also say that you might find Provencal rose at less than the chenet cost but a much higher quality.

What I find strange, is that all or shall I say most of their wines (white & rose) are very fruity and high in sugar content which does not really go with all the type of food and dishes they serve at lunch in the Med. This is definitely a very bad selection from the purchaser.

What I also find interesting from what I can read in the forums is the increase in lack of flexibility from the wine waiting staff.

This wine story has really had an impact on our dining experience as having long conversations at nearly every meal with a less than collaborative and less than knowledgeable wine waiter to find an alternative wine is not what I would expect from a cruise with Seabourn and @ 80-90 dollars the bottle of premium wine, buying wine for every meal defeat the object of choosing Seabourn and the all inclusive type Cruise.

When we requested the list of wines including, we were told that list did not exist... My view is that Seabourn should publish this list and allow customers to choose from that list as at least we would know where we stand.

[MARIANH]

themed4me, completely agree with you and I believe there is a direct link with the move to Holland & America.

I would also say that you might find Provencal rose at less than the chenet cost but a much higher quality.

What I find strange, is that all or shall I say most of their wines (white & rose) are very fruity and high in sugar content which does not really go with all the type of food and dishes they serve at lunch in the Med. This is definitely a very bad selection from the purchaser.

What I also find interesting from what I can read in the forums is the increase in lack of flexibility from the wine waiting staff.

This wine story has really had an impact on our dining experience as having long conversations at nearly every meal with a less than collaborative and less than knowledgeable wine waiter to find an alternative wine is not what I would expect from a cruise with Seabourn and @ 80-90 dollars the bottle of premium wine, buying wine for every meal defeat the object of choosing Seabourn and the all inclusive type Cruise.

When we requested the list of wines including, we were told that list did not exist... My view is that Seabourn should publish this list and allow customers to choose from that list as at least we would know where we stand.

 

A list exists. Naturally it is not fully up to date; but is a good starting point to make informed decisions on the included wines. Seabourn is reluctant to to disseminate the list. Perhaps because they like to "push" a particular couple of wines each day - maybe because they have large stocks of such wine. And it reduces the workload for the wine servers.

 

You just need to insist that they share a copy of the list with you. It should be no big deal really. Just ask and ask again if you are given the runaround. We are the paying customers and should not take no for an answer.

[hoya68]

While there are certainly differences in tastes, there are also some objective distinctions between very good to outstanding wines and mediocre wines. Some people may not notice or care about these distinctions, but as this thread shows there is a good percentage of SB regulars who do notice and care.

 

From the list posted earlier in this thread, it appears that SB is virtually "bottom feeding" in the wine market. This is really penny wise and pound foolish. As any reader of wine publications that rate wines knows, there is a pretty broad selection of very good to outstanding wines available at under $15 US retail or about $10 wholesale Adding a couple of dollars to SB's average wine purchase price would have a relatively minor impact on total costs (maybe $2 pp per day) but a major impact on the satisfaction of a large number of guests. Of course some guests would not care or notice, just as some wouldn't care if salmon roe were substituted for caviar, Prosecco for champagne, or shrimp for lobster. However, if SB is marketing a luxury all-inclusive product, wine quality and service is a necessary component. If SB constantly looks at price and not value in major components of its total experience (food, alcohol, on-board and in-room amenities, staffing) it will quickly be in a race to the bottom of the "luxury" cruise market.

 

We will be on the Quest in a couple of weeks and I hope to have the kind of wine experience we have had on previous SB cruises.

[marazul]

When we requested the list of wines including, we were told that list did not exist... My view is that Seabourn should publish this list and allow customers to choose from that list as at least we would know where we stand.

 

The current list is at the end of page 1 of this thread thanks to wripro who managed to get it from the sommelier.

hoya68 - it would be good if you could let us know if there are any noticeable changes during your next cruise.

[Flamin_June]

To (mis)quote my favourite aothor, Raymond Chandler "the world is going to hell in a paper cup" and this is just another symptom of the global descent into barbarism.

It used to be called The Yachts of Seabourn. A six star experience.

Now it's just Seabourn Cruise Line. The Ryanair of Luxury Cruising....

[wripro]

Marazul,

 

Sorry, I can't take credit for obtaining the wine list. It was someone else.

 

And Flaming_June, I have to disagree strongly. Despite the lesser quality of wines being poured imo Seabourn is still the best luxury line out there. Silversea has also cut back on its wine quality and lags behind Seabourn in so many other areas. It remains to be seen what kind of wine Crystal will serve when it becomes all inclusive. Would I prefer that Seabourn poured the same wines they did a few years ago? Of course. But I choose a cruise line for so many other reasons besides wine.

 

Personally, I'd gladly trade better wine for no kids.

[redheadednancy]

Marazul,

 

Sorry, I can't take credit for obtaining the wine list. It was someone else.

 

And Flaming_June, I have to disagree strongly. Despite the lesser quality of wines being poured imo Seabourn is still the best luxury line out there. Silversea has also cut back on its wine quality and lags behind Seabourn in so many other areas. It remains to be seen what kind of wine Crystal will serve when it becomes all inclusive. Would I prefer that Seabourn poured the same wines they did a few years ago? Of course. But I choose a cruise line for so many other reasons besides wine.

 

Personally, I'd gladly trade better wine for no kids.

Wripro....we love good wine and have a small cellar but we agree with you wholeheartedly AND I'll agree with you again...I'll trade better wine for no kids also!

[themed4me]

Wripro, good wine and if kids at least good(attentive) parents. After the last two weeks I've added no Russian mobsters to my wish list as well!

[turtlemichael]

After good wine I never notice the kids.

[CraftyEC]

We will be on the Quest in a couple of weeks and I hope to have the kind of wine experience we have had on previous SB cruises.

Which sailing? We will be on the Quest in two weeks, from Athens on 19th. Only three people on the roll-call so far, but I suspect there will be plenty of folks in real life!

 

This will be our first Seabourn cruise, and I hope to have the kind of wine eperience you have had on previous SB cruises :D

[Chairsin]

With poorly behaved kids we all might need more wine!!!

[hoya68]

Which sailing? We will be on the Quest in two weeks, from Athens on 19th. Only three people on the roll-call so far, but I suspect there will be plenty of folks in real life!

 

This will be our first Seabourn cruise, and I hope to have the kind of wine eperience you have had on previous SB cruises :D

 

We will be on the previous week. Hopefully there will be some good wine left for your cruise!