To Refund or Not To Refund - That is The Question...

[T. Advisor King]

The insurance I buy covers emergency evacuation in case of illness or acident, lost luggage, and many other things.

Kathy

 

And I would never travel without insurance that covers my medical care and evacuation.

 

However, a recent poster indicated that the cost of his/her cancellation insurance was about 10% of the cost of the trip. Does the average healthy person think the odds of cancelling a trip are more than 10% (i.e., so it would be worth it to buy the insurance)? If the odds are less than 10% and assuming you take more than, say 3-4 vacations in your entire life, then you're better off saving the premium and essentially self-insuring. At a certain point, you'll be ahead. In fact, at a certain point, even if you have to cancel a trip, you'll be ahead. In fact, at a certain point, even if you have to cancel two trips you'll be ahead.

 

I'm going to guess that if you bought cancellation insurance for every vacation, the average healthy person would have to miss one vacation every 5-6 years for 30 years to make it a smart move to buy the cancellation insurance. Otherwise, the amount you're spending in premiums exceeds the amount that you would get back in insurance claims.

[T. Advisor King]

I buy trip insurance in case I have to be airlifted back due to an accident or illness. Since that can cost in the 10's of thousands I may need a really big jar:eek:

 

And the insurance industry appreciates the people who don't understand the difference between medical insurance (always necessary) and trip cancellation insurance (a loser's bet).

[blondietink]

Who can predict with any reliability the following:

 

Elderly parents getting sick or dying

Anybody in your immediate family being diagnosed as seriously ill, including yourself

Having an accident shortly before your cruise that leaves you unable to travel

Kids getting sick

Missing your embarkation because your flights were delayed

Getting/having a job that refuses to let you take your vacation

Unexpected job loss

Natural disaster (tornado, flood, hurricane, blizzard) that makes it so you cannot travel.

 

We buy the insurance because of all of the above.

[katiel53]

I think you missed my point. If you were to take the premiums that you would have paid if you'd bought the insurance and put them in a jar instead, the average, healthy person will wind up much farther ahead than if they had bought the insurance. Insurance companies don't operate at a loss. They operate at a profit, which means they charge you more than they expect to pay out in claims. Because a trip is something you've already paid for, you're not protecting yourself from a liability, which is the usual purpose for buying insurance. You're just placing a bet that you will have to miss you're trip.

 

The house always wins.

 

I would agree with you if 1-you are young and healthy and 2- an orphan so that you don't have parents, grandparents etc. to worry about and 3- no children and 4-are willing to throw what you have paid away should you not be able to go. I won't travel without insurance and I probably, at least according to you, have wasted money, but I guess I am doing it a small amount at a time rather than a huge chunk at once. I don't want to miss a trip I have been looking forward to. With insurance should something happen, I can reschedule for as close to the original time as possible.

 

We all think differently--thank goodness!

 

OP,

I don't think your chances are good. That's the reason for insurance. Sorry.

[LSEA]

And the insurance industry appreciates the people who don't understand the difference between medical insurance (always necessary) and trip cancellation insurance (a loser's bet).

 

Our family has excellent health insurance through DH's employer. It does not cover emergency evacuation from a cruise ship and its complicated from certain foreign countries. We always buy the travel insurance for the medical evacuation. Are you telling me I can buy (per trip, not a yearly policy) coverage for just medical transport? Please let me know, I would definitely like to look into that.

 

To the OP: You gave your parents a lovely gift. It is unfortunate that they were unable to use it. Hopefully the affection and generosity you showed them is a gift in itself. I doubt you will get any of your money back but it is good you inquired, can't hurt to ask. If I ran CCL I'd give it back to ya. But if I ran CCL they would probably be out of business soon. :)

[iTouch]

My exact point with trip cancellation insurance. Why throw away the premium if you don't have to? You're better off putting the money in a jar because you'll wind up ahead.

 

My point was why throw thousands of dollars away verses a few pennies to insure.......the op is just one of many posts on these boards lately of having to cancel their cruise........bet he wishes he had the insurance;)

[iTouch]

I would agree with you if 1-you are young and healthy and 2- an orphan so that you don't have parents, grandparents etc. to worry about and 3- no children and 4-are willing to throw what you have paid away should you not be able to go. I won't travel without insurance and I probably, at least according to you, have wasted money, but I guess I am doing it a small amount at a time rather than a huge chunk at once. I don't want to miss a trip I have been looking forward to. With insurance should something happen, I can reschedule for as close to the original time as possible.

 

We all think differently--thank goodness!

 

OP,

I don't think your chances are good. That's the reason for insurance. Sorry.

 

Bingo!

[tazco]

And the insurance industry appreciates the people who don't understand the difference between medical insurance (always necessary) and trip cancellation insurance (a loser's bet).

On my last cruise they were all together as one package. Just getting the medical portion would not have saved much since the whole policy was only around $30. I didn't care about losing $'s if my trip was cancelled since it was not much money but why not include it for a few dollars? Just so you know I do understand the difference:)

[T. Advisor King]

Our family has excellent health insurance through DH's employer. It does not cover emergency evacuation from a cruise ship and its complicated from certain foreign countries. We always buy the travel insurance for the medical evacuation. Are you telling me I can buy (per trip, not a yearly policy) coverage for just medical transport? Please let me know, I would definitely like to look into that.

 

.... :)

 

You'll be able to buy trip medical insurance that would cover an evacuation. Not sure if you can simply buy the evacuation insurance alone, but you certainly don't need to buy the cancellation coverage just to get the evacuation coverage.

[T. Advisor King]

My point was why throw thousands of dollars away verses a few pennies to insure.......the op is just one of many posts on these boards lately of having to cancel their cruise........bet he wishes he had the insurance;)

 

And that is what the insurance company will have you believe. That it is "thousands vs. pennies", while in fact it is a thousand or two vs. a couple hundred. How many times a year are you paying the hundreds? How many years of those hundreds does it take before you've paid more in premiums than you would ever recoup in claims?

 

Insurance companies make a profit because the amount they charge you far exceeds what they pay out in claims. This makes sense with medical insurance because you're insuring against (a) future unknown expenses, and (b) possible financial ruin. This makes much less sense (and some would argue no sense) with trip cancellation insurance because there is no risk of future liability and therefore no chance of a future financial impact.

[genegri]

Insurance companies are in it to make profits so on average we as insurance buyers will lose out no matter which insurance we buy, medical, accidents, cancellation, etc.

 

I agree that trip cancellation insurance may not be the best idea for those of us who can comfortably afford to lose the trip's cost. There is a cap to the loss and the loss won't have any meaningful impact on my lifestyle. But for those who really have to save and save for a long time to have their dream cruise it is a different scenario.

 

OTOH when it comes to medical or accidents I say definitely worth it to buy insurance. The loss could be in the 6 or 7 figures which WOULD impact my lifestyle. I will happily choose to lose a small affordable amount so I do not have to worry about losing an amount I can't afford. For the peace of mind, which is the only value of insurance for vast majority of cases.

[iTouch]

And that is what the insurance company will have you believe. That it is "thousands vs. pennies", while in fact it is a thousand or two vs. a couple hundred. How many times a year are you paying the hundreds? How many years of those hundreds does it take before you've paid more in premiums than you would ever recoup in claims?

 

Insurance companies make a profit because the amount they charge you far exceeds what they pay out in claims. This makes sense with medical insurance because you're insuring against (a) future unknown expenses, and (b) possible financial ruin. This makes much less sense (and some would argue no sense) with trip cancellation insurance because there is no risk of future liability and therefore no chance of a future financial impact.

 

It makes perfect sense for me to purchase cancellation insurance to recoup my trip costs in the event of something happening that would cause me to have to cancel. I add the few pennies into the cost of the trip. I don't miss the small amount nor will I lose any sleep over the thousands I could have saved in the years down the road. I don't want to risk losing the money I paid for my trip period......I would be stupid to think oh well just lost thousands of dollars but 10 years down the road I would save more from not purchasing insurance.......

And no I would not feel the pinch of losing the money because as you said I already paid it.

I have nothing against insurance companies making a profit off of me......really I don't...

[NEWORLEANSCRUISER1]

Spouse got cancer and could not go on cruise, we had no insurance (diff cruise line) and would be out 4000.00. I had to go on cruise with mother-n-law and just me :eek: :eek: - That was enough for me to get insurance on every cruise since!! Hope your dad is better.

[whodatis?]

I have a friend who got ill, was advised not to travel (of course, didn't get the insurance) and was allowed to move that money to a future cruise. But refund? You can forget that.

[SE NC]

This happen 12 years ago. Note: insurance is now secured for all cruises. My daughter (17 at the time) was involvled in a terrible car accident 1 & 1/2 weeks before a scheduled cruise....DD, DW, DSIL and myself. We almost lost our only child. Doctors said she had a 50 - 50 chance of surviving the surgery (words a father or mother should never have to hear). With God's help she made it and has blessed us with 2 grandsons and a great SIL!:D

I called my TA (we now use a PVP because TA retired) and explained the situation. I told her I didn't want my money back but just wanted to change the sailing dates. She said we would most likely lose our money. She called the next day and said Carnival was very understanding and that we could move the dates but we must pay for insurance. So Carnival let me purchase insurance after the fact. 8 of our 9 cruises sense this happened has been with Carnival!:D

[Captain Carnival]

This happen 12 years ago. Note: insurance is now secured for all cruises. My daughter (17 at the time) was involvled in a terrible car accident 1 & 1/2 weeks before a scheduled cruise....DD, DW, DSIL and myself. We almost lost our only child. Doctors said she had a 50 - 50 chance of surviving the surgery (words a father or mother should never have to hear). With God's help she made it and has blessed us with 2 grandsons and a great SIL!:D

 

I called my TA (we now use a PVP because TA retired) and explained the situation. I told her I didn't want my money back but just wanted to change the sailing dates. She said we would most likely lose our money. She called the next day and said Carnival was very understanding and that we could move the dates but we must pay for insurance. So Carnival let me purchase insurance after the fact. 8 of our 9 cruises sense this happened has been with Carnival!:D

 

Your story is certainly the best, and also most tragic example, as to why to purchase cruise insurance and THANK GOD you (as I do) have two healthy Grandsons!

 

I am also quite appreciative of all of the messages of support for any kind of relief and well-wishes for my Dad as well!

 

I am a realist and despite some of the "I told you so" style finger-wagging, I was fairly certain that I was not going to fair well but was simply seeking out information from anyone who may have already been in the same boat (yes, pun intended). :rolleyes:

 

Nevertheless my Carnival PVP got back to me today to advise that my request and documentation has been forwarded and will take "a few weeks" to receive an answer.

 

Thanks again all! :D

[PAPERBKWRITER]

I think you missed my point. If you were to take the premiums that you would have paid if you'd bought the insurance and put them in a jar instead, the average, healthy person will wind up much farther ahead than if they had bought the insurance. Insurance companies don't operate at a loss. They operate at a profit, which means they charge you more than they expect to pay out in claims. Because a trip is something you've already paid for, you're not protecting yourself from a liability, which is the usual purpose for buying insurance. You're just placing a bet that you will have to miss you're trip.

 

The house always wins.

With your logic cancelling your car and home insurance will make you money in the long run. Insurance is a risk pool and at the very least you'll get peace of mind. Most policy holders won't need it but when one does each insured contributes a little toward the loss.

[ray98]

No...that is what insurance is for.

[T. Advisor King]

Insurance companies are in it to make profits so on average we as insurance buyers will lose out no matter which insurance we buy, medical, accidents, cancellation, etc.

 

I agree that trip cancellation insurance may not be the best idea for those of us who can comfortably afford to lose the trip's cost. There is a cap to the loss and the loss won't have any meaningful impact on my lifestyle. But for those who really have to save and save for a long time to have their dream cruise it is a different scenario.

 

OTOH when it comes to medical or accidents I say definitely worth it to buy insurance. The loss could be in the 6 or 7 figures which WOULD impact my lifestyle. I will happily choose to lose a small affordable amount so I do not have to worry about losing an amount I can't afford. For the peace of mind, which is the only value of insurance for vast majority of cases.

 

I agree 100% with both these comments.

[T. Advisor King]

With your logic cancelling your car and home insurance will make you money in the long run. Insurance is a risk pool and at the very least you'll get peace of mind. Most policy holders won't need it but when one does each insured contributes a little toward the loss.

 

No, that is not correct. You have car and home insurance because you are protecting yourself against the risk of future financial loss. In addition, you're protecting yourself against being financially ruined.

 

There is no future loss if you miss your cruise. All you "lose" is what you've already paid. An earlier poster mentioned that he "would be out $4,000" by missing a cruise. In fact, the poster was already out the money. You don't lose money by missing a vacation.

 

In addition, no one ever can possibly be financially ruined by not having trip cancellation insurance. Try that with a car or if someone is injured on your property. It's a completely different issue.

[iTouch]

No, that is not correct. You have car and home insurance because you are protecting yourself against the risk of future financial loss. In addition, you're protecting yourself against being financially ruined.

 

There is no future loss if you miss your cruise. All you "lose" is what you've already paid. An earlier poster mentioned that he "would be out $4,000" by missing a cruise. In fact, the poster was already out the money. You don't lose money by missing a vacation.

 

In addition, no one ever can possibly be financially ruined by not having trip cancellation insurance. Try that with a car or if someone is injured on your property. It's a completely different issue.

 

I don't know anyone who would insure a vacation for that reason........not sure why you keep trying to get this point across:confused:

[T. Advisor King]

I don't know anyone who would insure a vacation for that reason........not sure why you keep trying to get this point across:confused:

 

Because the previous poster said, "by your logic, you should never get car insurance or home insurance."

[jiggs]

I don't know anyone who would insure a vacation for that reason........not sure why you keep trying to get this point across:confused:

 

because he's trying to defend against all the people that say 'I would never travel without cancelation insurance'...If I'd of bought insurance for every cruise I've been on, I'd be out over the price of a cruise, never with a claim. If I'd of canceled one of my first cruise, it would hurt a lot more than canceling my 10th.

 

I carry homeowners insurance because I have to in order to be able to secure a loan on my home...is it nice security? Absolutely. Do people have the 'I have a friend that...' stories, yes. The number of people who will actually experience a fire or significant storm damage to their home - less than 5%...higher in hurricane prone areas, but your insurance is also higher.

 

I carry car insurance because I have to to legally drive a car in the United States.

 

If you care only about someone suing you for damages and financial ruin, get a PLUP.

 

I know I'm wasting my keystrokes trying to defend T. Advisor, but I agree with him 100%. Everyone has stories and people plant fear into others. The more I type, the more I think I should get into the travel insurance business.

 

I compare it to people that will only take excursions sponsored by the cruise-line. Pay more to ensure if something happens on the trip, the boat won't leave without you. Hence a form of insurance.

 

Its all about your personal acceptance of risk.

[iTouch]

because he's trying to defend against all the people that say 'I would never travel without cancelation insurance'...If I'd of bought insurance for every cruise I've been on, I'd be out over the price of a cruise, never with a claim. If I'd of canceled one of my first cruise, it would hurt a lot more than canceling my 10th.

 

I carry homeowners insurance because I have to in order to be able to secure a loan on my home...is it nice security? Absolutely. Do people have the 'I have a friend that...' stories, yes. The number of people who will actually experience a fire or significant storm damage to their home - less than 5%...higher in hurricane prone areas, but your insurance is also higher.

 

I carry car insurance because I have to to legally drive a car in the United States.

 

If you care only about someone suing you for damages and financial ruin, get a PLUP.

 

I know I'm wasting my keystrokes trying to defend T. Advisor, but I agree with him 100%. Everyone has stories and people plant fear into others. The more I type, the more I think I should get into the travel insurance business.

 

I compare it to people that will only take excursions sponsored by the cruise-line. Pay more to ensure if something happens on the trip, the boat won't leave without you. Hence a form of insurance.

 

Its all about your personal acceptance of risk.

 

No need to defend anyones "opinion". It has nothing to do with fear either.....people insure their vacation to recoup their vacation loss in the event of having to cancel.......nothing more and nothing less.....and certainly not the threat of financial ruin.......which was mentioned several times.......

[jiggs]

No need to defend anyones "opinion". It has nothing to do with fear either.....people insure their vacation to recoup their vacation loss in the event of having to cancel.......nothing more and nothing less.....and certainly not the threat of financial ruin.......which was mentioned several times.......

 

"financial ruin" was used to contrast why someone would insure their car or home and not their vacation...at least thats the way I read it.