To Refund or Not To Refund - That is The Question...

[iTouch]

"financial ruin" was used to contrast why someone would insure their car or home and not their vacation...at least thats the way I read it.

 

Actually no.......he used it in several of his posts in regards to trip cancellation insurance......it is his whole argument of why insurance is not needed for cruises. That and if you can't afford to lose what you already spent ;)

[Captain Carnival]

[iTouch]

 

 

LOL! Actually it was hijacked on the first page:D

[beshears]

Yes, anytime I fly and "cruise", I always get trip insurance. For flying I don't. In fact, the insurance has come in handy 3 times or more. I wouldn't be without it when I cruise, and I HAVE TO fly to get to my destinations.

[T. Advisor King]

Actually no.......he used it in several of his posts in regards to trip cancellation insurance......it is his whole argument of why insurance is not needed for cruises. That and if you can't afford to lose what you already spent ;)

 

Thanks, but it is not my "whole argument". My principal argument is that buying trip cancellation insurance will quickly result in a financial loss to most people who buy it. I mention "financial ruin" to distinguish cancellation insurance from travel medical coverage or to discourage (obviously unsuccessfully) posters from countering with "why do you get home insurance or car insurance?"

 

It is somewhat similar to buying separate collision insurance for a beater car. The amount you'd have to pay for the insurance will quickly overtake any amount you'll ever get back if you ever have a claim, so why bother?

[T. Advisor King]

because he's trying to defend against all the people that say 'I would never travel without cancelation insurance'...If I'd of bought insurance for every cruise I've been on, I'd be out over the price of a cruise, never with a claim. If I'd of canceled one of my first cruise, it would hurt a lot more than canceling my 10th.

 

I carry homeowners insurance because I have to in order to be able to secure a loan on my home...is it nice security? Absolutely. Do people have the 'I have a friend that...' stories, yes. The number of people who will actually experience a fire or significant storm damage to their home - less than 5%...higher in hurricane prone areas, but your insurance is also higher.

 

I carry car insurance because I have to to legally drive a car in the United States.

 

If you care only about someone suing you for damages and financial ruin, get a PLUP.

 

I know I'm wasting my keystrokes trying to defend T. Advisor, but I agree with him 100%. Everyone has stories and people plant fear into others. The more I type, the more I think I should get into the travel insurance business.

 

I compare it to people that will only take excursions sponsored by the cruise-line. Pay more to ensure if something happens on the trip, the boat won't leave without you. Hence a form of insurance.

 

Its all about your personal acceptance of risk.

 

Thanks for chipping in. Sometimes it just takes someone else to explain the same thing in a different way.

 

I will add that I carry liability insurance for my car and home so I don't get sued. I appreciate that a personal liability policy would accomplish the same thing.

 

If my car is expensive enough, I will also buy collision insurance because I will have to replace my car if I crash it. Similarly, I'll cary fire and related insurance on my home because if it is destroyed, I'll have nowhere to live. For such significant future losses, where a single event in a lifetime will have massive financial impact, I am willing to pay a premium that exceeds the expected value of my loss.

 

For something as relatively trivial as a vacation cost, where I will have dozens (perhaps hundreds) of opportunities in my lifetime to let the odds average out, it makes no statistical or financial sense to "insure" the cost.

 

I should also add that I consider myself to be on the high end of risk aversion.

[iTouch]

Thanks, but it is not my "whole argument". My principal argument is that buying trip cancellation insurance will quickly result in a financial loss to most people who buy it. I mention "financial ruin" to distinguish cancellation insurance from travel medical coverage or to discourage (obviously unsuccessfully) posters from countering with "why do you get home insurance or car insurance?"

 

It is somewhat similar to buying separate collision insurance for a beater car. The amount you'd have to pay for the insurance will quickly overtake any amount you'll ever get back if you ever have a claim, so why bother?

 

To recoup the money we spent on our vacation if we had to cancel....pretty cut and dry. And I hope I never have to use it....

[StillPooh]

For something as relatively trivial as a vacation cost, where I will have dozens (perhaps hundreds) of opportunities in my lifetime to let the odds average out, it makes no statistical or financial sense to "insure" the cost.

 

I should also add that I consider myself to be on the high end of risk aversion.

I wish I was rich enough to not mind just writing off three thousand dollars, if I had to miss my trip! :rolleyes:

 

The insurance we buy covers trip cancellation and medical emergencies, rolled into one.

[iTouch]

Thanks for chipping in. Sometimes it just takes someone else to explain the same thing in a different way.

 

I will add that I carry liability insurance for my car and home so I don't get sued. I appreciate that a personal liability policy would accomplish the same thing.

 

If my car is expensive enough, I will also buy collision insurance because I will have to replace my car if I crash it. Similarly, I'll cary fire and related insurance on my home because if it is destroyed, I'll have nowhere to live. For such significant future losses, where a single event in a lifetime will have massive financial impact, I am willing to pay a premium that exceeds the expected value of my loss.

 

For something as relatively trivial as a vacation cost, where I will have dozens (perhaps hundreds) of opportunities in my lifetime to let the odds average out, it makes no statistical or financial sense to "insure" the cost.

 

I should also add that I consider myself to be on the high end of risk aversion.

 

I understand how insurance works:rolleyes: It makes no sense to me to throw money away if it could be recouped for pennies. Some of us have situations at home that we might have to cancel at moments notice......

[T. Advisor King]

I wish I was rich enough to not mind just writing off three thousand dollars, if I had to miss my trip! :rolleyes:

 

The insurance we buy covers trip cancellation and medical emergencies, rolled into one.

 

I wish I was rich enough that I could spend recklessly on insurance that I knew would never pay off in the end.

[T. Advisor King]

I understand how insurance works:rolleyes: It makes no sense to me to throw money away if it could be recouped for pennies. Some of us have situations at home that we might have to cancel at moments notice......

 

This comment seems to demonstrate that despite what you say, you don't understand how insurance works. If it is pennies that you're spending, then it is merely pennies that you're recouping.

 

You don't recover thousands of dollars for a premium that is merely pennies. The insurance companies make a profit because they charge you more than you will recoup. The house always wins.

 

You seem to be saying, "why not spend so little to recover so much?" but you aren't able or willing to acknowledge that the amount you're spending is virtually guaranteed to exceed the amount you will recover. And the more you spend, the greater will be your net loss on those transactions. It is fairly simple math.

[Umbarger]

Your story is certainly the best, and also most tragic example, as to why to purchase cruise insurance and THANK GOD you (as I do) have two healthy Grandsons!

 

I am also quite appreciative of all of the messages of support for any kind of relief and well-wishes for my Dad as well!

 

I am a realist and despite some of the "I told you so" style finger-wagging, I was fairly certain that I was not going to fair well but was simply seeking out information from anyone who may have already been in the same boat (yes, pun intended). :rolleyes:

 

Nevertheless my Carnival PVP got back to me today to advise that my request and documentation has been forwarded and will take "a few weeks" to receive an answer.

 

Thanks again all! :D

 

 

Shotojuku, Could you please come back to this thread and post what Carnival says when you get a response. I for one would like to know! Best wishes to your father.

[StillPooh]

I wish I was rich enough that I could spend recklessly on insurance that I knew would never pay off in the end.

It'll prevent financial ruin should we suffer a scuba accident, heart attack or other medical emergency on our trip. :rolleyes:

[Captain Carnival]

Shotojuku, Could you please come back to this thread and post what Carnival says when you get a response. I for one would like to know! Best wishes to your father.

 

 

I certainly will, just as soon as I can restore my thread from the current insurance pissing-contest! :rolleyes:

 

[T. Advisor King]

It'll prevent financial ruin should we suffer a scuba accident, heart attack or other medical emergency on our trip. :rolleyes:

 

You must have great trip cancellation insurance!

[okwriter]

...that occupies me as of late; so what do you think....?

 

Quick Synopsis: I booked (paid for) a cruise on the Inspiration for my parents 75th birthday for November 5th (last week). Two days before sailing my father was diagnosed with a (non life threatening) medical condition that the Doctor/Surgeon advised that he should not sail...so they didn't. Trip insurance you ask? NO!

 

I have subsequently spoken to and sent supporting medical documentation to my Carnival PVP seeking some kind of refund and/or future cruise credit.

 

Therein lies the question (and your expert opinion) for those who may have faced a similar experience - what are my chances?

 

Thanks!

 

It was a nice gesture for you to pay for a cruise for your parents. ;)

 

However, you rolled the dice on insurance.

I don't think you should get any form of refund and---quite honestly---I don't think you should have asked.

 

But if you do get something in the form of a refund or credit, please don't come back and post that information. It simply adds to the "insurance/no insurance" debate because people will think they don't need to get insurance, either...and then they may have very different results than you. :)

[Cruise Organizer]

You seem to be saying, "why not spend so little to recover so much?" but you aren't able or willing to acknowledge that the amount you're spending is virtually guaranteed to exceed the amount you will recover. And the more you spend, the greater will be your net loss on those transactions. It is fairly simple math.

 

Insurance spreads out the risk from an individual to a group. The majority pays the loss on the indivdual. Many will pay for nothing except peace of mind. only you can determine that value to you.

 

Using your logic, people should never drink. It is expensive, causes health problems and there is no payback. And if you drink beer, well you are just pissing your money away!

[Captain Carnival]

 

...quite honestly---I don't think you should have asked...

 

...please don't come back and post that information. It simply adds to the "insurance/no insurance" debate ...

 

Thank You "Mother May I".... Quite honestly I will come back to the thread that I started that quite frankly didn't ask for a debate on insurance so to that end I invite all who are "debating" the issue to start their own little ego-gratification insurance debate thread themselves. ;)

[iTouch]

This comment seems to demonstrate that despite what you say, you don't understand how insurance works. If it is pennies that you're spending, then it is merely pennies that you're recouping.

 

You don't recover thousands of dollars for a premium that is merely pennies. The insurance companies make a profit because they charge you more than you will recoup. The house always wins.

 

You seem to be saying, "why not spend so little to recover so much?" but you aren't able or willing to acknowledge that the amount you're spending is virtually guaranteed to exceed the amount you will recover. And the more you spend, the greater will be your net loss on those transactions. It is fairly simple math.

 

I fully understand if we insured every cruise we took every year for 10 years at the price we insure I would be forking out about $1,300.00 or so in insurance premiums. I also know that we already had to cancel and reschedule one of our trips. If I didn't insure that trip I would not have been able to recoup that couple of thousand to take that same trip a month later. To me that insurance was worth every penny that month.

 

I also know that paying $129 insurance premium will not financially ruin me either.......nor will thinking about how much I spent 10 years later .....to me that is pennies........to you maybe not. We have also been tipping $140 on a seven day cruise to people who clearly serve us;)

 

In our situation I would be reckless not to insure as we don't know what tomorrow brings.......and really could care less about 10 years down the road.....

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit just like any other business....common sense.......

Oh just so you know that $129 also includes medical insurance, evacuation, lost luggage, pre existing.......so minus the cost of that it is even more mere pennies to us.......

[T. Advisor King]

Insurance spreads out the risk from an individual to a group. The majority pays the loss on the indivdual. Many will pay for nothing except peace of mind. only you can determine that value to you.

 

Using your logic, people should never drink. It is expensive, causes health problems and there is no payback. And if you drink beer, well you are just pissing your money away!

 

You are 100% right that insurance spreads the risk to many individuals. However, in the case of trip cancellation insurance, assuming that you go on more than a dozen or so insured trips in your lifetime, you're just spreading the risk among yourself. The size of the insured amount is small enough and the premiums are high enought that you are simply paying an extra premium to do what you would already be doing naturally by accepting the limite risk and saving the premiums.

 

I'm not sure where the corollory is between "don't bother with insurance when you can self-insure" and "don't drink alcohol because it may be harmful". I assume you wanted to work in your snappy conclusion, but if you really think about it, shouldn't you be arguing that I'm trying to make the case that you should drink more (i.e., take more risk)?

[T. Advisor King]

I fully understand if we insured every cruise we took every year for 10 years at the price we insure I would be forking out about $1,300.00 or so in insurance premiums. I also know that we already had to cancel and reschedule one of our trips. If I didn't insure that trip I would not have been able to recoup that couple of thousand to take that same trip a month later. To me that insurance was worth every penny that month.

 

I also know that paying $129 insurance premium will not financially ruin me either.......nor will thinking about how much I spent 10 years later .....to me that is pennies........to you maybe not. ...

 

In our situation I would be reckless not to insure as we don't know what tomorrow brings.......and really could care less about 10 years down the road.....

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit just like any other business....common sense.......

Oh just so you know that $129 also includes medical insurance, evacuation, lost luggage, pre existing.......so minus the cost of that it is even more mere pennies to us.......

 

As long as you know what you're doing, I won't try a thousand times to convince you that you're making a bad financial deal. If the argument is that it is the value of the "comfort" rather than the dollars, then I'm still not sure I see the value in spending $2,600 over 20 years for the peace of mind of knowing that in the zero or one trip you or most people would likely have to cancel during that time you/they will get their $2,000 back.

 

But if that math is comforting to you, then have at it. I still will never travel internationally without full medical insurance (and I'll repeat that a thousand times if it comes up), so at least we agree on that point.

[iTouch]

As long as you know what you're doing, I won't try a thousand times to convince you that you're making a bad financial deal. If the argument is that it is the value of the "comfort" rather than the dollars, then I'm still not sure I see the value in spending $2,600 over 20 years for the peace of mind of knowing that in the zero or one trip you or most people would likely have to cancel during that time you/they will get their $2,000 back.

 

But if that math is comforting to you, then have at it. I still will never travel internationally without full medical insurance (and I'll repeat that a thousand times if it comes up), so at least we agree on that point.

 

You don't have to convince me anything.......I know I am making the best financial deal in my situation......

I don't insure for cancellation to get their money or to make money (never said that) I insure to not lose my money....yes the money I already spent.....so in essence I insure so I don't lose my vacation;) Which I already had to use once and reschedule........pennies to me and still got my vacation.

If you don't mind losing your vacation thats fine.......but I do.......

[MsTabbyKats]

...that occupies me as of late; so what do you think....?

 

Quick Synopsis: I booked (paid for) a cruise on the Inspiration for my parents 75th birthday for November 5th (last week). Two days before sailing my father was diagnosed with a (non life threatening) medical condition that the Doctor/Surgeon advised that he should not sail...so they didn't. Trip insurance you ask? NO!

 

I have subsequently spoken to and sent supporting medical documentation to my Carnival PVP seeking some kind of refund and/or future cruise credit.

 

Therein lies the question (and your expert opinion) for those who may have faced a similar experience - what are my chances?

 

Thanks!

 

Please explain.....WHY....do you think you should get some sort of credit?

 

You chose not to buy insurance...and your father doesn't have a serious condition.

 

Carnival would be foolish to give you anything...because it would be setting a precedent.

 

What they did for someone else in 1999 has no relevance to what they do today.

[T. Advisor King]

You don't have to convince me anything.......I know I am making the best financial deal in my situation......

I don't insure for cancellation to get their money or to make money (never said that) I insure to not lose my money....yes the money I already spent.....so in essence I insure so I don't lose my vacation;) Which I already had to use once and reschedule........pennies to me and still got my vacation.

If you don't mind losing your vacation thats fine.......but I do.......

 

No one likes to pay twice for a vacation. I agree with that. But some apparently are willing to pay 1.1 times for every vacation they take to avoid the chance of paying twice perhaps once in their lifetime.

[Cruzin2paradise09]

OP, quite honestly, I do not think your 'tone' in the last few posts have been fair to everyone here. You opened this thread with a question that quite honestly; you would not have had to ask if you had purchased trip insurance.

So based on that, nobody has hijacked your thread; they are discussing the pluses and minuses of purchasing and not purchasing.

You were also quite snide with someone else when they indicated that it's not right for you to even ask for a refund or credit when there are options out there for you to have avoided this in the first place. I happen to agree with that poster.

I also agree with the other poster who stated that what Carnival did in 1999 is moot today.

The bottom line is that I choose to purchase that insurance if, God forbid, something happens. Why should I follow a common sense procedure when you say that you should be able to recoup your costs regardless of the fact that you did not purchase the insurance.

I'm sorry that you have had to endure this. What a wonderful 'child' you are to purchase a cruise for your parents! But, my grandfather once told me something very profound "tough sh**" .... I hope your father is doing better and I hope you understand the need for insurance.

Happy Cruzin'.