Blackjack on the Dawn

[BoscoBreaux]

I want to get some other persons' take on this issue, for it has been bugging me. On my 4/3/05 cruise on the Norwegian Dawn, blackjack was delt out of an automatic shuffling device. Now, I am a reasonably accurate card counter, and I knew that this skill would be virtually useless against the machine. But I did notice one thing: a disproportionate number of "low number" cards (3-6) seemed to be in whichever decks total they used.

Needless to say, to my dismay, I took a blackjack beating the likes of which I have never seen, and I wasn't the only one. Losing 75% of hands is outside the boundaries of variance, and I counted as many as 10 decks worth of 3s it seemed. Could the Dawn be spiking their decks with low number cards? I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Incidentally, for the Blackjack tournament, they dealt from a regular (not shuffling) shoe, and the count appeared reasonable. Of course, it is not a real tournament, and the "repeat players" must have spent over $400 to keep playing (and losing).

[johnql]

On my 4/3/05 cruise on the Norwegian Dawn, blackjack was delt out of an automatic shuffling device. ... Could the Dawn be spiking their decks with low number cards? I wouldn't put it past them.

If memory serves, I believe they only use an automatic shuffler at one of the BJ tables. But I don't think it's just an automatic shuffler. It's one of those dreaded continuous shufflers. See this link for the difference and why continuous shuffling machines (CSMs) are to be avoided like the plague:

 

http://tamburin.casinocitytimes.com/articles/1326.html

 

The other BJ tables deal 6 (or 8) decks out of a standard shoe. At least that's the way I remember it from my Dawn cruise 14 months ago.

 

As far as spiking their decks, I highly doubt if that's happening. Casinos simply do not have to rely on fixing games to win. All the games have built-in house edges. There's really no good reason to fix a game when the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk (being caught cheating and having your reputation blackened among future cruisers, leading to horrendous publicity and a possible boycott).

[glory4usa1]

Cant You Ask Them To Reload It With Fresh Decks Of Cards?

[johnql]

Cant You Ask Them To Reload It With Fresh Decks Of Cards?

I suppose you could ask, but I doubt if the dealer is allowed to do it. You would have to ask the pit boss. He/she probably has the discretion to have it done, but I still don't think it would happen.

[TravelWarrior]

If memory serves, I believe they only use an automatic shuffler at one of the BJ tables. But I don't think it's just an automatic shuffler. It's one of those dreaded continuous shufflers. See this link for the difference and why continuous shuffling machines (CSMs) are to be avoided like the plagueQUOTE]

 

This is correct. The machine is a continuous shuffler. Many casinos now use this. I won't play at a table that does because the odds are definitely slanted toward the house. I'd wager that you'd have better chances on a slot machine than a BJ table that uses a continuous shuffler.

[mbisson]

http://tamburin.casinocitytimes.com/articles/1326.html

 

As far as spiking their decks, I highly doubt if that's happening. Casinos simply do not have to rely on fixing games to win. All the games have built-in house edges. There's really no good reason to fix a game when the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk (being caught cheating and having your reputation blackened among future cruisers, leading to horrendous publicity and a possible boycott).

 

Thanks for the link about CSM's. I hadn't really thought about what the article says, but it makes sense. I also agree with you 100% about the lack of a need for a house to "fix" a game.

 

I have a solution I use when I'm taking a beating like the OP did. I get up and leave. Stops the loss every time.

 

-Monte

[BoscoBreaux]

Thanks for the link about CSM's. I hadn't really thought about what the article says, but it makes sense. I also agree with you 100% about the lack of a need for a house to "fix" a game.

 

I have a solution I use when I'm taking a beating like the OP did. I get up and leave. Stops the loss every time.

 

-Monte

The continuous shuffler is nothing new, and if one is able to count, over a period of time you can get a sense of the composition and nature of the decks being used. Unfortunately, the advantage one can gain is limited to what can be inferred from one series of play. As for whether the laws of probabilites and statistics alone dictate house strategy, I can name many large casinos, who are under Nevada Gaming Commission regulations, who have been found guilty of spiking decks, and I certainly wouldn't put it past a ship flagged in the Caribbean. Of course, the "need" the spike isn't there, but that really isn't the issue. With a continuous shuffler, the house is sheltered from analysis, in a way that it wouldn't be if it dealt out of a shoe.

[BoscoBreaux]

This is correct. The machine is a continuous shuffler. Many casinos now use this. I won't play at a table that does because the odds are definitely slanted toward the house. I'd wager that you'd have better chances on a slot machine than a BJ table that uses a continuous shuffler.

 

Actually, the odds aren't different whether the house uses a 5 deck Shufflemaster, or whether it deals one deck from the hand. (Assuming the house uses standard 52-card decks of course.) Even a master card counter can't change the odds which, on average, always favor the house.

[marianneyaya]

Incidentally, for the Blackjack tournament, they dealt from a regular (not shuffling) shoe, and the count appeared reasonable. Of course, it is not a real tournament, and the "repeat players" must have spent over $400 to keep playing (and losing).

 

Sorry...but that is not true. I was on the same cruise as you and I was in the tournament. The entry fee is $10. Everyone starts out with $2000 (special chips) and the person with the most at the end of 6 or 7 rounds possibly makes it to the final game. (If someone gets a higher total, the lowest in the winner spot is knocked off) I had $32,000!! Someone got more than me the last day. In the final game I ended up in 3rd place. Had a lot of fun! You can enter as many times as you want. Top prize is $500.

[johnql]

I can name many large casinos, who are under Nevada Gaming Commission regulations, who have been found guilty of spiking decks...

I don't suppose you'd be willing to share the names of those casinos?

[hcf]

Does anyone know what the minimum bets are for Black Jack, craps, and roulette? Do the slots start at a quarter? Do all the ships have the same guidelines?

 

I am trying to decide whether I should bring $$ to gamble on board or not.

 

Thanksm ;)

[johnql]

Does anyone know what the minimum bets are for Black Jack, craps, and roulette? Do the slots start at a quarter? Do all the ships have the same guidelines?

The minimum bet for BJ, craps and roulette is usually $5. I'm pretty sure slots do start at a quarter.

[MA 2 VA]

They also have nickel slots on the Dawn

[johnql]

They also have nickel slots on the Dawn

I couldn't remember whether that was the case. I thought that they did but wasn't sure. Thanks for confirming that.