negc Posted April 21, 2012 #301 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Open eyes and the light of day is what is needed to assure both the public and to make sure these floating cash machines do the right and safe thing all the time. Let us all keep the light on this until reasonable "third parties" have reached a conclusion, and with luck the Comadore of the fleet has some retraining/refreasher class' for the bridge crew, ASAP.!!! Of course the conclusion reached by your "reasonable third parties" might be that the bridge crew doesn't need a retraining/refresher class. You really should allow for that possibility if you really want to be objective about this situation. Only after that investigation is completed are we likely to find out who, if anyone, was at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voyageur9 Posted April 21, 2012 #302 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Efforts to blame the (two-now-dead) Panamanian fishermen for failing to properly stock their small boat, and/or the Panamanian authorities for failing to conduct a better search, or the bird-watching passengers for failing to raise more of a fuss or make a greater follow-through (although it boggles the mind that some of you are trying to fault them) are amusing but irrelevant and quite diversionary. The Captain is responsible for the ship and his crew. This isn't the Captain not knowing about a crewmember failing to clean a toilet. Capt Perrin will need to explain if there wasn't an unambiguous set of orders requiring that he (or the officer of the watch) be immediately informed of any and all issues involving life and death (person believed overboard, vessel in distress etc etc.) or the safety of the ship. If those orders existed and weren't followed, then claiming ignorance is no defence. Blaming underlings for failing to follow orders is hardly the mark of an honourable officer nor a reputable company. If the orders didn't exist then Capt. Perrin and Princess are in deeper (hot) water. The obligation is render assistance to vessel in distress at sea is not optional and if some Princess employee/crewmember failed to pass the information up the chain of command or independently made a decision that it wasn't worth reporting, then Capt. Perrin is still on the hook. That's what command responsibility and accountability are all about. In this instance, there seems to be no question that a life-threatening situation was reported to Princess crew members on board the Star in a timely fashion with the appropriate amount of urgency and evidence. This wasn't idle gossip or rumour-mongering. Capt Perrin will -- no doubt -- be called to account to explain why he and his officers failed to act as required under maritime law. That he is 'devastated' as claimed by Princess public relations people is understandable. Not only are two people dead but his command competence is in question, no matter how much he has charmed and impressed passengers previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtlk Posted April 21, 2012 #303 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Voyageur9 is right on.... The Captian is the responsible party and should and must take that responsiblity, regardless of how much the ladies on this posting think he his charming at the Captains cocktail parties. Ask the passangers on Carnival's Concordia how charming that Captain was before his irresponsible and cowardly actions Killed over 30. Either way this is yet another black mark on Carnival... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLACRUISER99 Posted April 21, 2012 #304 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Boy I'm really tired of trial by the INTERNET folks who think with the guilty until proved Innocent mentality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moniquet Posted April 21, 2012 #305 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Mistakes were made, lessons will be learnt...how often do we hear this rubbish nowadays. I don't understand why some are defending the indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cruisemom42 Posted April 21, 2012 #306 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Boy I'm really tired of trial by the INTERNET folks who think with the guilty until proved Innocent mentality! Yes, because surely in the history of the world there was never, ever a lynch mob mentality before the days of the Internet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moniquet Posted April 21, 2012 #307 Share Posted April 21, 2012 In the British newspaper...breakdown in communications....right:rolleyes: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133102/Carnival-Star-Princess-ignored-passenger-pleas-help-stranded-fishing-boat.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voyageur9 Posted April 21, 2012 #308 Share Posted April 21, 2012 No lynch mob mentality at all in what I posted. I entirely agree that Capt. Perrin is innocent. That he should be held accountable for his actions and/or his failure to act and/or the failure of the crew he commands to inform him is hardly a lynch mob mentality. I suspect Capt Perrin -- if he is one-tenth the man so effusively described by some posters -- will want to answer what seem to be fairly serious questions about his performance. Star Princess under his command passed close by small fishing boat nearly 200 kilometres from shore. No other boats were in the vicinity. At least one member of his crew was informed -- in a timely, detailed fashion with appropriate urgency -- that those aboard the small boat appeared to be signalling and might be in distress. In broad daylight and calm seas, the Star Princess sailed on. Two people subsequent died. At this stage, Capt Perrin is innocent. So, at this stage, is Capt. Schettino, of the Costa Concordia. While there are many, many differences, both were captains of modern, well-equipped ships in non-threatening situations that ended with evidently unnecessary deaths. In both cases, the performanace of the captains deserves to be examined. There may be criminal, professional and/or disciplinary issues to be examined and judge by the appropriate tribunals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard1s Posted April 21, 2012 #309 Share Posted April 21, 2012 No lynch mob mentality at all in what I posted. I entirely agree that Capt. Perrin is innocent. That he should be held accountable for his actions and/or his failure to act and/or the failure of the crew he commands to inform him is hardly a lynch mob mentality. I suspect Capt Perrin -- if he is one-tenth the man so effusively described by some posters -- will want to answer what seem to be fairly serious questions about his performance. Well written and well said; one of the few comments on this entire thread that makes any real sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted April 21, 2012 #310 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hi All Pity folks do not post the facts, or at least provide reference, eg UK news papers report that other passengers confirm other fishing boats were seen, Princess states no bridge officer was informed, Now I understand the way some folks are thinking so following that it must be the Doctors fault as he has a duty to save life, OK knowone told him two folks were dying , but that is not important. yours Shogun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repo-cruiser Posted April 21, 2012 #311 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Voyageur9 is right on.... The Captian is the responsible party and should and must take that responsiblity, regardless of how much the ladies on this posting think he his charming at the Captains cocktail parties. Ask the passangers on Carnival's Concordia how charming that Captain was before his irresponsible and cowardly actions Killed over 30. Either way this is yet another black mark on Carnival... Just trying to keep this thread factual, it was the COSTA Concordia not Carnival Concordia, unless of course you call this ship the Carnival Star, rather than the Star Princess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeGone Posted April 21, 2012 #312 Share Posted April 21, 2012 How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard1s Posted April 21, 2012 #313 Share Posted April 21, 2012 How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him? Because in naval customs and tradition, the Captain is responsible for everything that happens on his or her ship; even if for some reason they are not onboard, it is still their responsibility. Whether the Captain was advised or not is immaterial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom33 Posted April 21, 2012 #314 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Efforts to blame the (two-now-dead) Panamanian fishermen for failing to properly stock their small boat, and/or the Panamanian authorities for failing to conduct a better search, or the bird-watching passengers for failing to raise more of a fuss or make a greater follow-through (although it boggles the mind that some of you are trying to fault them) are amusing but irrelevant and quite diversionary. There is nothing amusing in my post, nothing irrelevant in my post, and it was not written for diversionary purposes. It is the sad truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtlk Posted April 21, 2012 #315 Share Posted April 21, 2012 just trying to keep this thread factual, it was the costa concordia not carnival concordia, unless of course you call this ship the carnival star, rather than the star princess its all cranival and carnival is the owner, i'm sure the shareholders are rather upset that all these things seem to be comming up, carnival needs to control it children and retrain them so these things don't happen again. These deaths are not nitpicky, the are real and should not have happend..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CA Posted April 21, 2012 #316 Share Posted April 21, 2012 How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him?Because, right or wrong, the Captain is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the ship. That goes for someone choking on a bone, slipping and falling on a wet deck, or a harbor pilot giving mis-direction which causes the ship to strike a sand bar (it's happened.) It doesn't matter whether there was a failure to communicate or if the Captain had anything to do with it, he will assume the blame and most likely, his career is in jeopardy and probably ruined. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrill Posted April 21, 2012 #317 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I wouldnt even know who to contact to insure that they listened to me if I saw something like that. Call the emergency number on the phone in your room, and tell them what you saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frediver Posted April 21, 2012 #318 Share Posted April 21, 2012 It might not be his fault but it is his responsibility. On board ship it all roll's uphill ! A Captain is responsible to have the right people in the right positions under his command and by default is responsible for both the good and bad decisions they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CA Posted April 21, 2012 #319 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Call the emergency number on the phone in your room, and tell them what you saw.And, you should be calm, clear and concise, giving as much detail as you can as quickly as you can. If you're too general or over-excited, you won't be taken as seriously. Before calling, take a few seconds to think about what you'll say and how to present the facts and urgency. You'll be taken far more seriously and the message will be more clearly conveyed/repeated to the person(s) in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrill Posted April 21, 2012 #320 Share Posted April 21, 2012 We the crusing public can not let this pass, with more than a white wash from the cruise operator. This seems to involve several pasasangers reporting to ship's officers about a vessel in distress and an ineffective ships leadership doing nothing. Where did it say that the passengers talked to an OFFICER ? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loucat Posted April 21, 2012 #321 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I have been on ships where the captain slowed the ship as something was seen from the bridge and they wanted to stop and help if needed. This happenened several times from the Western Caribbean to Florida route. It always turned out what they saw was not someone needing helped, but could this ship at least not slow down to look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldspan Posted April 21, 2012 #322 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Saw the whole thing tonight (Saturday) on ABC World News. The woman from Oregon who saw and reported the whole thing comes across as quite mature and sincere. I think Princess has a major problem on its hand! Worldspan 131 cruises strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DugboatLarry Posted April 21, 2012 #323 Share Posted April 21, 2012 from all you posters? We will just wait until the results are confirmed. Doesn't seem too difficult, unless the debate club is make in session with the what ifs, and I think comments. Just another thread that is too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrill Posted April 21, 2012 #324 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I have no clue who the bird watchers went to, one would assume the pursers desk? But, they said they spoke with an officer, and that person felt it wasn't important enough to pass that information along to the bridge? And this is how stories get changed... The articles I read said that the birders contacted "a sales rep" onboard who came out on deck and looked through their binoculars/scopes/whatever and saw the boat. Another report said they spoke to someone at the purser's desk who called the bridge immediately. And yet another poster on this thread said the passengers spoke to "ship's officers". :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CA Posted April 21, 2012 #325 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Saw the whole thing tonight (Saturday) on ABC World News. The woman from Oregon who saw and reported the whole thing comes across as quite mature and sincere.Absolutely. But we don't know what she or the others were like when they were reporting what they saw. If they weren't calm, clear and concise, as they are now that they've had time to think about it, it's possible that the message transmitted to the bridge wasn't clear or complete. I'm not saying they weren't but from their previous interviews, it's my impression that they were upset and anxious, and might not have been very clear. We don't know and this is something that will hopefully come out in the investigation, i.e., what was said and how it was communicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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