Yet another St Petersburg Visa Question

[whenzuc]

I just received a letter from Holland America about Impt Russia Visa Info-

This is a excerpt of the letter:

" Guests who wish to sightsee independently or sightsee outside of the Holland America shore excursion Program MUST obtain an individual Russian Visa before leaving home. This is mandatory."

"Example: Guests who have arranged private tours through a travel or tour agency other than Baltic Travel Company must obtain a Reference Confirmation Letter (Invitation) for Individual Visas from that licensed company along with all other supporting documents and fees. Then contact the Visa Service of your choice, such as Zierer Visa Services or the Russian Embassy for the procedures to follow."

"In either example, your travel agency or tour company will be named on the visa issued in your name. It is important to note that any visa issued, which is not properly supported by the proper tour company may result in dlay or denied entry into Russia. It is recommended that you select a tour company that is licensed to operate in Russia and that is permitted to meet you inside the restricted port area during your visit to St. Petersburg."

Is there anything in this procedure that is new? What does it mean?

Please advise- Stan or anyone else? Do I need to get a Visa aside from what Red October will get us?

[alanmal]

Standard cruise line tactics to scare you into using there tours rather than denrus or red october, which are about half the price of what the cruiselines charge. All you need is your passport, photocopy of the front page of your passport and a outside tour agency tour ticket.

 

 

al

[Madrina]

Right above this "Thread" window is the link to http://www.RedOctober,etc. Just click it and read what they say. You can save enough on visas, not to mention the queasy feeling of sending your passport off to a Russian consulate, to half pay for your shore excursions. I learned of this on these pages. Too many people have reported good experiences to make me doubt that you do not need a visa.

[Madrina]

I don't mean to suggest that you should book with RedOctober.us; just read their home page to know you don't need a visa to go ashore.

[whenzuc]

i know what red october says- i just feel a little vulnerable- - that is, being told that I do need a visa!!!

[stanj]

I just received a letter from Holland America about Impt Russia Visa Info-

This is a excerpt of the letter:

" Guests who wish to sightsee independently or sightsee outside of the Holland America shore excursion Program MUST obtain an individual Russian Visa before leaving home. This is mandatory."

"Example: Guests who have arranged private tours through a travel or tour agency other than Baltic Travel Company must obtain a Reference Confirmation Letter (Invitation) for Individual Visas from that licensed company along with all other supporting documents and fees. Then contact the Visa Service of your choice, such as Zierer Visa Services or the Russian Embassy for the procedures to follow."

"In either example, your travel agency or tour company will be named on the visa issued in your name. It is important to note that any visa issued, which is not properly supported by the proper tour company may result in dlay or denied entry into Russia. It is recommended that you select a tour company that is licensed to operate in Russia and that is permitted to meet you inside the restricted port area during your visit to St. Petersburg."

Is there anything in this procedure that is new? What does it mean?

Please advise- Stan or anyone else? Do I need to get a Visa aside from what Red October will get us?

 

It means your cruise line is more concerned with their income from your trip than their own honesty.

 

There is a requirement for all visitors to have a visa, that much is true, but all else is deceiption and should make you wonder what else they are lying about besides just visas.

 

There is some confusion on ship, indepenent tours and independent exloration. There is really only two classes: Visitors who again access though the cruise ship passenger visa waiver program and those who gain access individually with a personal visa.

 

A personal visa is gotten by submitting an application form, a consular fee, passport style photo and an invitation( called a Voucher for Tourist 30 day visa)

On the other hand a long time law has been in place that allowed one class of visitor to arrive without a personal visa and still have access to the country. The visa waiver law is only applicable to cruise ship passengers arriving from a foreign destination. The waiver is actually a greatly simplified visa for cruise passengers, but it is still a form of visa. It is a group visa, like we used back in the Soviet Era when we would visit the USSR on a Group Tour Intourist visa.

The group tour is a document that lists each visitor that is being escorted by a licensed tourism company on a formal tour. The number of tour members range from 1 to many hundreds but each is listed and identified as part of that group. The tour company submits the needed documents to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and receives the authorization for the group. That is the reason group tours need to be booked in advance, to allow time, a week usually, for the group visa to be processed.

There are several important conditions on a group visa:

1. The maximum stay without an individual visa is 72 hours
   
2. The tour company is fully responsible for the conduct and actions of the visitor
   
3. The visitor needs to be accompanied by a tour company representitive all times.
   

Tour companies are very limited, the Ministry has licenced few companies to escort visa-less visitors so for practical purposes you have 3 choices:

1. Arctur
   
2. Den Rus
   
3. Red Oktober
   

What about ship tours and excursions you ask? There are none. Ship lines simply contract with one of the tour companies to act as their agent. Up until 2 years ago the contracts were let to lowest bidder but according to industry consensus, the Mafia moved in and now controls the docks so only their company can get the contract. The same process is used to get a group visa, no matter which tour company you book with, you are listed on the group visa for the company you booked in advance

The group visa is all that is needed to leave the ship and it is illegal for the ship to detain you if you have permission to be in Russia. Just to have the best options, many people books with both Den Rus and Red Oktober because neither requires a payment until you show up for their tour and completed it. Booking a ship tour is deducted from you CC account right away because much of the price is retained up front as commisson for the cruise line, which can be as much as 50% of the price for the tour.

 

Cruise ships are expensive to run and the basic charge for the voyage barely covers the overhead of the ship and services which is why they compete with each other on basic passages but not on the overall out of pocket costs to the passenger. Everytime a passenger turns around additional charges are added for anything outside basic passage. The large impersonal tours using 45-50 passenger buses are good examples, they are very cheap to host, and have high profits compared to personal 2-8 passenger independent tours. The same large bus style tours as your ship contracts with are available from a number of tour operators for visa holders for $15 plus entrance fees and lunch for Peterhof for example. Just go to Gostiny Dvor in the morning to see 5-6 different companies and dozens of large buses picking up day tours. The ship tours do have a few added items however, lunch and entrance fees.

This is one of the many reasons seasoned travelers do not use big tour bus tours from cruise ships. A personalized tour is a much better way to see and experience the city regardless of costs. This is also the reason your cruise line is trying to deceive you, they make a lot of money, maybe $150,000 for a large ship for each day of tours. It is also the reason the cruise line ensure most passengers are frightened out of getting either personal visas or booking one of the other authorized tours. On a ship with 2,500 passengers only about 100 see through the deceiption and are independent enough to avoid the ship sponsored tours. But by any measure, those 100 got more out of their tour than any of the remaining 2,400.

 

When I hear of the tactics of cruise lines I have less interest in doing business with them. It is unfortunate that they have resorted to carefully crafted images and text to create false impressions.

 

Soon, the visa waiver program will end however. The law that makes visa requirements standardized throughout passed the Duma on first reading this last winter and it must pass additonal votes and be signed into law. Quite likely a simplified standard visa will come into play but only rumors are available right now. If everyone has a visa in the future, stays in port will likely be longer and all passengers will have many more options for their sight seeing and activities.

[whenzuc]

stan- as always thanks...wendy