What would you have done?

[sail7seas]

As for the teachable moment with the younger brother, the OP did teach him a lesson about being considerate and polite. On the other hand, he taught him nothing about standing up to a bully.

 

I'd like to hope that had this happened to me I would have been calm enough to let it roll off my back at the moment, continued my conversation but at a very quiet level, and then followed up the next day either in person or with a note to the neighbor expressing my sincere apologies for disturbing them and suggesting that, in the future, they let me know immediately if I am doing something that is bothering them (rather than wait until they get out-of-control angry).

 

I'd like to hope that ... but when confronted by a bully it's not always easy to turn the other cheek.

 

 

In your hypothetical.........

 

You would learn you were disturbing the neighbor but would continue to do so after realizing you were keeping them awake and the next day you would send a note of apology? I'd have a hard time thinking there was a bit of sincerety in that apology. If you knew you were keeping them awake and continued to do so why bother with the note the next day? :confused: You clearly didn't care enough to do something thoughtful when you had the chance.

 

[sail7seas]

What if the OP had been smoking on their balcony at 3 AM and the smoke drifting in through the neighbor's open door disturbed them? Would they have been wrong to be doing that, or would it have been okay since they would not have the option of going inside their cabin to smoke?

 

 

If, on the ship which they were sailing, smoking is permitted on verandas, he would have had the right to smoke.

 

Noise that keeps others awake at 3 A.M. is not the same thing IMO

A conversation at that hour that is disturbing others trying to sleep should be taken inside where they will not be bothering others. Simple courtesy and consideration. I'm shocked it's a 'debatable issue'. To me it is so obvious it is as basic as just good manners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it just the rudeness that disturbed you? If your neighbor had yelled, "Please keep it down - we're trying to sleep" would that have been OK, or would you still believe that you were in the right? Would your neighbor have had to get out of bed, put on a dressing gown or come out in pajamas to ask for quiet?

 

 

 

Yes....... that is the issue, isn't it?

[juanarcin]

Yet, here you are on this board asking the question and not once have you said... great, ok, I handled it fine. What you've said is but, but, but..... Ok, the guy was rude. In the other guy's book, you were rude. Call it a draw for that moment in time. You both could have made other choices. However, every single time you come back on the boards to again explain how you were "wronged" you lose credibility in it not bothering you and frankly I think you are blowing this single comment way out of proportion.

 

great, ok, I handled it fine. :)

Thank you all for your responses!

[euro cruiser]

In your hypothetical.........

 

You would learn you were disturbing the neighbor but would continue to do so after realizing you were keeping them awake and the next day you would send a note of apology? I'd have a hard time thinking there was a bit of sincerety in that apology. If you knew you were keeping them awake and continued to do so why bother with the note the next day? :confused: You clearly didn't care enough to do something thoughtful when you had the chance.

I think you are just determined to be right, so much so that you're not really reading what has been written. I clearly said "continue to talk "at a very quiet level". There are competing rights involved, the neighbors are not entitled to complete silence. I've been on several different cruise ships and I know that it is possible to hold a quiet conversation that cannot be heard right next door.

[weltek]

First and foremost, The others were wrong for not getting up and closing their balcony door if it bothered them. In their shoes, I'd have been annoyed, but immediately would've gotten up and closed the door. Chalk it up to "good idea to keep the door open, but not practical." If they could still hear you through a closed door, that I think it's reasonable for them to ask you to be quiet at 3 AM and reasonable for you to then take it inside.

 

You were right for setting a good example for your brother in not being confrontational.You did the polite thing. In no way were you required to, but sometimes it's good to just be the bigger person.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I agree that the OP did the right thing at the right time.

 

Maybe the neighbor had the door open -- and you are not supposed to have it open. However, I feel that a person should be able to assume that no one is going to be having a conversation on an adjoining balcony at 3 a.m.

 

I agree that the neighbor could have been nicer about asking for quiet, but I'm guessing that they were lying there thinking that their neighbors would go inside at any moment and finally just lost it.

 

I don't know how I would have handled the same situation of hearing a chat at 3 a.m. -- hopefully a bit better -- but I do know I wouldn't chat on my balcony at that hour!

 

I agree that the passenger in the next cabin probably just lost it. I really, really wouldn't call it rude in that sense. Maybe if it was 10pm and he wanted to go to sleep, he would have been more polite in requesting neighbors to take the conversation elsewhere. At 3am, being awaken from a sleep, I can see how someone might lose it. To me, the only thing he really did wrong would be to have the balcony door open IF there was a sign requesting passengers to keep the door close. If two people want to have a conversation at that time, there are plenty of venues they can go to on most ships and have quite a bit of privacy. There aren't doors on many of the lounges, as far as I know. And if it's a nice night, sitting by the pool, you're not going to be bothering others. And the setting might be more conducive to a conversation.

[calliopecruiser]

To me' date=' the only thing he really did wrong would be to have the balcony door open IF there was a sign requesting passengers to keep the door close.[/quote']

 

You think shouting at strangers to "shut up" (as a first request, without talking to them and without even seeing them) isn't wrong?

[dsrdsrdsr]

Do people feel that if someone's less-than-polite to you, you have carte blanche to be as rude as you like to them?

[dread_pirate]

I also want to clear up the nature of our conversation. Without explanation some people might picture us out there every night having beers on the balcony. We never sat out there late into the morning talking. On this particular night we were out in the nightclub that they have on the ship. It ended at 2 am. We came back to our room. I went to take a shower and when I came out I saw him on the balcony. I asked him if he was going to bed soon or if he was staying out there for a while. He told me he would just be a few minutes...he said he "likes thinking out there and has a lot on his mind". Now I dont have kids but I'm sure most of you do. If that was your rebelious teenage son/daughter out there finally giving you an opening to a real discussion what would you have done?

 

A: Tell them "ok goodnight"

B: Tell them "Well People are sleeping so if you want to talk lets talk inside"

C: Go out there and talk with them

 

I know that taking the conversation inside is what would happen in a perfect world and the right thing to do. But lets be honest, when these oportunities come up are we really thinking "what will the neighbors think?" I dont know about you but I rather seize the moment and have a heart to heart with them AS LONG AS WE ARENT BEING LOUD! those are the keywords. now Yes maybe people can still hear me, Yes maybe people are light sleepers and YES maybe I was wrong because of it, but at the moment these arent the things you stop and think about. at the moment your family is whats important and we tend to be a little selfish when it comes to those matters, but i honestly thought I was being responsible by keeping the noise down, apparently not responsible enough but thats another story. But I would also like you to stop and ask yourself HONESTLY, which of the three options above you would have done faced in this situation. and I am pretty sure that the majority of you would have done the same.

Yes, I understand why you were out on the balcony at 3 AM, given the circumstances with your little brother. However, those circumstances are irrelevant to your neighbor or to anyone else. WHY you were out there doesn't matter.

 

The question was what you should do once it has been brought to your attention that you were disturbing others. And that's when you apologize and move indoors.

 

You still seem to argue, "Because I was with a 17 year old and we finally had time to talk and he wanted to talk, it's OK to bother people at 3 AM." Well, no, it's not. (You also stated that you would simply have stayed out there talking if you were with someone other than your brother and didn't have to set an example, so the circumstances really didn't matter to you either, did they?)

 

You also claim that you "ARENT BEING LOUD!" What you still fail to realize is that, despite how quiet you believe you were, you were LOUD ENOUGH to wake your neighbors. That, by definition, is BEING LOUD. And when it's brought to your attention, you go INSIDE and continue the conversation.

 

It's like the kid who plays his MP3 so loudly in public that everyone can hear it, but then says, "I have my earphones in so you can't possibly hear me!" If we didn't hear him, we wouldn't say anything, now would we?

[euro cruiser]

Do people feel that if someone's less-than-polite to you, you have carte blanche to be as rude as you like to them?

There's a world of difference between rudeness and aggression. Rude is burping, or maybe reaching in front of someone to get something. Shouting, pushing, etc. is aggression and should be dealt with as such. Not in kind, I'm not suggesting escalating into a confrontation, but you don't apologize to a bully. I'd simply ignore them and go on about my life.

 

The question was what you should do once it has been brought to your attention that you were disturbing others. And that's when you apologize and move indoors.

Or you apologize and lower your voices to a level that can't be heard. Again, NO ONE on a ship should expect total silence or a private vacation; you are in a crowded environment with lots of other people who have rights as well. One person's "right" to quiet does not eliminate another person's "right" to have a quiet conversation.

 

There were two potential ways to ease this situation that may have allowed both parties what they wanted. The neighbor could have closed his door and the talkers could have lowered their voices. In combination these two actions would likely have eliminated the problem with both parties having to give a little. The sleepers would have to deal with their door being closed and the talkers would need to be vigilant about keeping their voices down. In this case the neighbor seemed to think that he should get everything his way and everyone else should bend to his needs/wants.

[sail7seas]

I think you are just determined to be right, so much so that you're not really reading what has been written. I clearly said "continue to talk "at a very quiet level". There are competing rights involved, the neighbors are not entitled to complete silence. I've been on several different cruise ships and I know that it is possible to hold a quiet conversation that cannot be heard right next door.

 

 

I simply disagree. That's all I'm saying.

Doesn't make me right or wrong..... just makes my opinion differerent than those with whom I don't agree. "shrug"

 

 

 

[calliopecruiser]

Do people feel that if someone's less-than-polite to you, you have carte blanche to be as rude as you like to them?

 

No, but I'm not predisposed to doing what they want from me - I don't respond to bullies that way. Sure, I could turn the other cheek and walk away (that's one response) or I could ignore them (that's another response). Ignoring a rude bully isn't being rude to them.

[DDWW]

My wife would have thrown you overboard.

 

End of problem.;)

 

DDWW

[sail7seas]

You think the word 'bully' is getting somewhat overused these days?

 

I think it diminishes the meaning when it is applied willy nilly.

I don't consider the rude neighbor to be a bully...... I call them rude.

 

There is a big difference IMO

 

[calliopecruiser]

As another poster said, shouting at a stranger to "shut up" isn't just rude, it's also aggressive and threatening (in tone, even though the specific words were not). Rude behaviour might be selfish and unkind, but it's a small scale disruption of expected cultural norms. In my opinion, using loud and aggressive language (especially without preamble) in a way to try and intimidate a person into doing something you want them to do but offers them no benefit - other than the benefit of you stopping your aggressive behaviour and not escalating that behaviour - is bullying.

 

I don't know if those passengers were bullies, but that behaviour was bullying behaviour.......maybe it was atypical of them because they were woken up, or maybe it's their typical way of interacting with people who are bothering them. Either way, in that instance, they were behaving like bullies. It's the intent to intimidate them into doing what you want (or not doing what you don't want) by means of aggressive language or behaviour is a key component. Bullying isn't limited to kids.

 

On the other hand, consistently using using caps or bold font in a forum is just rude, not bullying.

[Cruisin' Chick]

You think shouting at strangers to "shut up" (as a first request, without talking to them and without even seeing them) isn't wrong?

 

Since neither of us were there, it just seems to me to say the neighbor was being a bully is very presumptuous. Maybe he came out and was trying to get the attention of the OP and the brother and they were so involved in their conversation, they didn't notice. In that case, he would have to increase his voice to get their attention. Maybe that didn't happen, but I'm giving an example of what could have happened. Some people tend to be oblivious to their environment (including how their voice may carry). But I'm not going to assume the neighbor wouldn't have been a bit nicer in a request for quiet if it had been a decent hour. I just don't get your assumption that the man is aggressive. He may have just been lying in his bed for a while, frustrated about these two men. All we're getting is the OP's side.

[sail7seas]

Maybe it was a woman who said "shut up"?

Unless I missed it, I don't think OP indicated the gender of the neighbor who said it.

 

[calliopecruiser]

Since neither of us were there' date=' it just seems to me to say the neighbor was being a bully is very presumptuous. Maybe he came out and was trying to get the attention of the OP and the brother and they were so involved in their conversation, they didn't notice. In that case, he would have to increase his voice to get their attention. Maybe that didn't happen, but I'm giving an example of what could have happened. Some people tend to be oblivious to their environment (including how their voice may carry). But I'm not going to assume the neighbor wouldn't have been a bit nicer in a request for quiet if it had been a decent hour. I just don't get your assumption that the man is aggressive. He may have just been lying in his bed for a while, frustrated about these two men. All we're getting is the OP's side.[/quote']

 

Nope, I wasn't there, but the OP was.......and that's why I said it was bullying behaviour and maybe at a normal time of the night he/she/they aren't bullies. (Still my gut tells me he/she/they are.) If they really were frustrated by the OP's behaviour, they should have done something before they let that frustration frustration turn to anger and drive them to act like a bully ;)

[calliopecruiser]

Maybe it was a woman who said "shut up"?

Unless I missed it, I don't think OP indicated the gender of the neighbor who said it.

 

 

LOL! Yes, it's a weakness of the English language that there isn't a gender-neutral personal pronoun other than "one".

[Smokeyham]

I'm a little concerned by the posts which have indicated that people have a "right" to be out on a balcony at 3:00 AM having a conversation. It would seem reasonable to expect people to be quiet during the posted hours.

 

I'm a light sleeper, and have been awoken by people having conversations outside of my closed window at home at 3:00 AM, so I understand the response of the people in the next cabin.

 

If I was the person who was awoken by the sounds of the conversation I would likely have confronted the person (perhaps a little less beligerently), or called security.

 

Although we do rent space on board; realistically, we are living in pretty close quarters, so there needs to be an even higher level of courtesy and consideration.

[juanarcin]

Nope, I wasn't there, but the OP was.......and that's why I said it was bullying behaviour and maybe at a normal time of the night he/she/they aren't bullies. (Still my gut tells me he/she/they are.) If they really were frustrated by the OP's behaviour, they should have done something before they let that frustration frustration turn to anger and drive them to act like a bully ;)

 

It never even crossed my mind to mention it or that anyone would have automatically assumed it was a man...but yes in fact it was a woman! I never saw her, but i did see her husband about 3 or 4 days later. there was never any conflict between any of us though. we bumped into each other one morning while exiting our room and just smiled and gave each other a good morning. Not sure if his wife would have been as nice :D

[sail7seas]

;) Do you know for sure they were married?

 

I know I'm being a nuisance but it's the assuming thing that sometimes gets us in trouble.

 

Some 'assumed' the rude neighbor was a man but, indeed, was a woman.

 

[juanarcin]

;) Do you know for sure they were married?

 

I know I'm being a nuisance but it's the assuming thing that sometimes gets us in trouble.

 

Some 'assumed' the rude neighbor was a man but, indeed, was a woman.

 

 

You're correct. It is an assumption made on my part. I never asked them if they were married :). However I know it was a man and woman, both between 45-50, I can confirm from having ran into him. My brother saw her and told me she seemed to be about the same age. But cannot confirm if they were actually married.

[constansl]

Saying shut up is rude. Not sure what I would have done but I think you made the right choice. If you were inadvertently loud, then she could have handled the situation more appropriately. And you should be able to quietly talk on your balcony all night long. Use Ear plugs if you are so sensitive to quiet talking. And have the decency to address someone politely before you demand they conform with your expectations. Good job op for being the better person

[Jo-Bob]

As another poster said, shouting at a stranger to "shut up" isn't just rude, it's also aggressive and threatening (in tone, even though the specific words were not). Rude behaviour might be selfish and unkind, but it's a small scale disruption of expected cultural norms. In my opinion, using loud and aggressive language (especially without preamble) in a way to try and intimidate a person into doing something you want them to do but offers them no benefit - other than the benefit of you stopping your aggressive behaviour and not escalating that behaviour - is bullying.

 

I don't know if those passengers were bullies, but that behaviour was bullying behaviour.......maybe it was atypical of them because they were woken up, or maybe it's their typical way of interacting with people who are bothering them. Either way, in that instance, they were behaving like bullies. It's the intent to intimidate them into doing what you want (or not doing what you don't want) by means of aggressive language or behaviour is a key component. Bullying isn't limited to kids.

 

On the other hand, consistently using using caps or bold font in a forum is just rude, not bullying.

 

While I agree with most everything you are saying, we really need to be careful about labelling 'minor' incidences as bullying. There is a vast, vast difference between this example and what routinely can happen to adults in the workplace....for just one example.

 

I won't speak to bullying between children, but do know a great deal, unfortunately, when it comes to peer-to-peer bullying, but more tragic is bullying by a manager/supervisor. It is unbelievably complex, and an emerging issue that is long over due. In the wider context, yes, this person was trying to exert their will.....but one could argue then, that someone insisting on talking all night on the balcony (I know, not the case here) was also exerting their will in a bullying way. See? It is complicated.

 

I just hope we don't erode the work finally being done to correct this kind of crap by taking something very rude and unpleasant and calling it bullying. Believe me....if this is bullying....then I'll take it ANY DAY over what I've seen, heard and tried to stop.